Posted by undopaminergic on March 19, 2008, at 14:51:37
In reply to Re: Nardil plus Phenylethylamine (PEA) » Carlton, posted by Ron Hill on March 18, 2008, at 23:37:25
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> > And, secondly, has anyone tried to supplement Phenelzine (nardil) with PEA or DLPA (DL-phenylalanine).
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> PEA, yes. But, there is no way in heck that I would try adding DLPA or LPA to Nardil because I deem it way too risky.PEA is considerably more risky than phenylalanine (PA), because it can rapidly release noradrenaline from storage vesicles in sympathetic nerve terminals, whereas PA first has to be converted into an active compound.
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> L-phenylalanine is the precursor to PEA. However, L-phenylalanine IS ALSO the precursor to tyrosine which then continues on as follows; tyrosine > L-dopa > dopamine > norepinephrine > epinephrine. The L-dopa and the three catecholamines (DA, NE, and epinephrine) scare the heck out of me as a Nardil user.DA is more hypotensive than hypertensive (except perhaps at very high concentrations), so any risk it may present is likely to be through its conversion into noradrenaline.
More importantly, it should be emphasised that the conversions of phenylalanine to tyrosine and tyrosine to L-dopa are relatively slow processes. L-dopa synthesis is the rate-limiting step in the production of catecholamines. Additionally, excessive concentrations of PA can further slow down the synthesis of L-dopa due to competitive inhibition of tyrosine hydroxylase (TH).
Catecholamines are also metabolised by catechol-O-methyltransferase (COMT), so they can be broken down even without MAO, albeit at a reduced rate.
> Carlton, if you decide to try this cocktail, monitor your blood pressure frequently and keep your nifedipine (hypertensive anecdote) handy. My experience is that even with low dosages of PEA added to Nardil my blood pressure rises. A little too much PEA and it will cause anxiety and uneasiness.
Depending on your baseline blood pressure, it might be interesting to try adding some guanfacine or guanabenz - alpha2-adrenergic agonists that reduce dopamine beta-hydroxylase (DBH) activity, slowing the conversion of DA to noradrenaline, and perhaps improving working memory as a bonus.
poster:undopaminergic
thread:818442
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20080316/msgs/818830.html