Posted by War-Face on October 22, 2007, at 13:44:41
In reply to Re: relation to seleginine????, posted by psychobot5000 on October 21, 2007, at 21:15:08
> EMSAM and selegiline are the same substance. However, you would need a very high dosage of oral selegiline (perhaps 80mg taken orally) to get the same blood-levels of selegiline as you get from a 6mg EMSAM patch worn for 24 hours. The reason is that the patch has a much higher efficiency at getting the drug into your bloodstream. This leads to another difference: much of the selegiline you take orally passes through the liver on its way into the bloodstream. The liver processes much of the dose into other active chemicals: amphetamines, mostly. So with an oral dose, you get the impurity of those amphetamine metabolites also.
>
> In sum, as I understand it, the patch gives higher blood levels of the parent drug, with much lower blood levels of amphetamine metabolites, so there is a modest practical difference between them, though they're the same drug.
This is a great response to the question regarding dosing and actual blood level differences between oral and transdermal selegiline. Given the differences in blood levels between the two, I wonder if the dose of selegiline provided by Emsam might be BEYOND the dose recommended to prolong life. It seems that in lab tests, there is a bell curve in dose for maximum longevity of mice: give too little, no increase in life span is seen, give too much, and lifespan actually decreases. Would the blood level of selegiline achieved through a dose equivalent to Emsam 6 mg put lab rats out of the beneficial range on this bell-curve in lab rats? Would this correspond to human longevity?Here is an interview with Dr. Joseph Knoll, who discovered selegiline and also reported on its tendency to increase the life of lab rats to various extents depending on the dose/weight ratio:
http://www.smart-publications.com/articles/MOM-knoll.php
Based on his findings with lab rats, I believe Knoll says that the ideal dose to increase human life is something like 1 to 2 mgs per day, which increases with age.
Then, a study done with dogs found that a MUCH higher dose, equivalent to "77 mg/day for a 170-pound person" increased the life span of dogs. Here is a full quote, with link below (which provides reference to the actual study):
"Although it takes too many years to do lifespan studies on long-lived species, another experiment was conducted on elderly beagle dogs. The dogs were given the equivalent of 77 mg/day for a 170-pound person. 80% of the deprenyl dogs survived to the end of the experiment, whereas only 39% of the placebo dogs survived [*6]."
http://www.benbest.com/lifeext/deprenyl.html
I am very curious as to how the delivery of selegiline might alter Knoll's findings on longevity, which of course was conducted on mice. Any thoughts on this subject?
poster:War-Face
thread:630549
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20071019/msgs/790642.html