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Re: beta carbolines to reverse benzo cognitive pro

Posted by linkadge on August 9, 2007, at 9:00:13

In reply to Re: beta carbolines to reverse benzo cognitive pro, posted by Quintal on August 8, 2007, at 17:11:02

>But they're no panacea and they have cause much >suffering to the people who became involuntarily >addicted to them, and they've also claimed lives >in the form of suicide resulting from benzo->induced depression.

Depression and suicide are two entirely different things. According to the most recent studies, a suicide victom shows very specific abnormalties aside from the average depressed person. I don't think it is fair to say that a drug that induces depression is completely responsable for a suicide.

>The SSRIs are pretty much a crap shoot as a >monotherapy for all but the mildest conditions, >as most of us here know.

While the SSRI's don't work for everybody, I don't think there is any solid data to suggest that severe depression responds significantly more poorly to SSRIs than to other drugs. Sure, TCA's and MAOI's can sometimes help resistant patients, but there need not be a correlation between depresison sevarity and treatment resisance. There are plenty of severe depressions that have responded to current treatments including SSRI's.

>Don't we all want safer, more effective >anxiolytics? I'm thinking, for example, of the >synthetic flavonoid 6,3'-dinitroflavone that's >said to have fewer adverse effects on learning >and memory than classical benzos.

Yes, but just because it is natural doesn't mean it can't have bad side effects of its own. I had a hell of a withdrawl from valerian. Valerian withdrawl can actually cause cardiac failure. While I prefer chamomile, I can get depressed if I drink too much, and I also have withdrawl if I stop it abruptly. Only time would verify if this flavanoid is truly as devoid of cognative symptoms as is stated.

>Yes, remedies like beta carbolines might be >helpful for reversing some of the side effects, >but it's odd that we have a thread of people >approving of a remedy for a problem they deny >exists.

People have the right to deny it exists, because it honestly may not. It is totally state dependant. Just like there are those of us (God bless their hearts) who don't get SSRI sexual dysfunction. The brain is a mystery, its not possable to say that one drug will affect a person the same way as another.

For instance, a person who is high in estrogen, which desensitizes GABA-A, may have much less effect of a standard dose of valium than somebody who has high progesterone (sensitizes GABA-A).
With the right dose, and the right amount of receptor activation, side effects might be greatly diminished.

>Benzos couldn't be used effectively in a medical >setting unless they caused consistent sedative >and amnesic effects, and they certainly do.

Well, seing as they are not approved for inducing amnesia, I can totally see why they could be effective without causing amnesia. You are saying that you read people's minds based on a few studies and some personal experience. The highest concentration of benzodiazapine receptors is in the amydala. For a person who's cognition is hampered by an overactive amydala, who knows how the cognition might actually improve when the amydala is tamed down. Its just like how Dilantin is used as a nootropic. For some people, it apparently improves cognition.

>If equally effective anxiolytics were available >that did not cause cognitive impairment and >amnesia I'm pretty sure we'd all jump at the >chance to take them, and consign the benzos to >retirement in operating theaters and dentists >chairs.

I hope better drugs are developed too.





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