Posted by linkadge on July 16, 2006, at 18:44:59
In reply to Re: couldn't have said it better myself » linkadge, posted by SLS on July 16, 2006, at 6:13:38
>You guys are speculating. I think you are both >wrong. I think the degree of placebo response is >dependent on the selection criteria. I have >already cited a paper regarding this issue.
Everybody here has been speculating. You sited a paper that *suggests* this *could* be a reason why placebo responces is high. To proove that this is true is much harder.
>How long do you think they should be followed >for? Is the STAR*D design sufficient?I'd say that a drug needs to work for a full year to be considered effective, but hey, thats just me.
>Is this speculation? What are the statistics?
Thats a good question. It is my understanding that depression has a high relapse rate.
>Certainly psychotherapy will enhance one's >chances of getting well and remaining well. >There are numbers on this. However, I have not >seen the numbers on relapse rates once >supportive psychotherapy is withdrawn. Let's see >them.
I'd have to look. I guess my best counterargument at this point would be the lack of data showing that antdiepressants work long term.
>That would be considered a placebo effect if you >began to "respond" during the first two weeks >according to some researchers. You might not >really have been responding to the drug. Placebo >responders do not remain in remission for very >long compared to true responders. You can look >at the work of Frederick Quitkin regarding this.
People can relapse too if psychosocial stressors rise above the power of the AD. Perhaps this was the case with me leaving the hospital, and return to a high level of psychosocial stress.
>It was likely neither.
My money is on the bacon.
> It is easy enough to ramp people up to a high dose of antidepressants to get some initial responses, but with the growing information bank regarding AD poop out we could add to the statistics.
>What exactly is that bank? Where can we find >these statistics?
The bank I am referring to, is the increase in awareness that antidepressants can loose their effectiveness over time. Simply typing in "antidepressnant + poop out" in a search engine will return dozens of results. Doctors have been forced to confront the issue, such as in the article below, but I don't know if studies have been conducted. Poop out is a well known phenomina.
>Cite it. Let us see if they separate out placebo >responders first. If they don't, the statistics >are worthless.
Good point! I would imagine that studies about the issue would be in the works. The problem with things such as this is funding. Drug companies in general, do not want to pay for a study to determine the poop out rate of their drug. In addition, they have no requirement to proove that their drug works long term.
Linkadge
poster:linkadge
thread:662854
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20060709/msgs/667568.html