Posted by Larry Hoover on May 22, 2006, at 18:12:05
In reply to Re: Statistical question on SSRIs - ADDENDUM, posted by linkadge on May 20, 2006, at 3:03:59
> "It is a class effect of pharmacological treatment of mood disorders. If you're going to treat depression with drugs, you get this effect."
I now realize I was actually thinking of antidepressant treatment. My apologies. Please allow for the rephrasing, to read "treatment of depression" rather than of mood disorders. My first sentence and second one were not well matched.
> Thats not true at all. Its called SSRI induced akathesia. Some drugs induce more akathesia. Some drugs have a higher likelihood of inducing such events. To try and package it all as one deal is foolish, and reeks of carelessness.
Suicidality is higher with tricyclics and MAOIs than with SSRIs, according to the BMJ data published earlier this year. Current, real-time data gives SSRIs a lesser, but similar effect. I did not mean to suggest identical.
> The shear body of evidence, for instance, indicates that lithium prevents suicides better than depakote does. That is statistically significant. It is not a "bipolars are going to blow off their heads anyway so it doesn't really matter much what we give them".
Fair enough.
> There are better treatments, and there are worse treatments.
>
> Some antidepressants made me suicidal, others did not. No, I don't know the exact mechanism, but I sure don't think that it was just coincidence. Just like citalopram gave me anorgasmia and remeron did not. Drug induced suicidality is not a general consequence of drug treatment of depression, and if it is currently, then it needent be. A drug should make you better, not worse.In fact it *is* a general consequence of antidepressant treatment, and it always has been the case. The data are consistent, through our historical experiences with the drugs.
I wish you were correct, but I believe that you are not.
> Opium never made a depressed suicidal insomniac want to jump off a bridge. If somebody is about to jump of a bridge, shoot them in the leg with a dart of MDMA. I'm shure they'd first step off the ledge, then they'd come give you a warm hug for saving their life.
Getting someone high is hardly a long-term solution to anything.
> It's called SSRI's are lousy. We simply need better antidepressants.
>
> Good antidepressants work.
>
> LinkadgeI feel your pain. I really think I know it well. I just can't find any evidence for true antidepressant efficacy or safety, anywhere. But they're better than the alternative, when averaged over the population. Some individuals will suffer excessively. I'm sorry that's the case for you.
I'm stopping now.
Lar
poster:Larry Hoover
thread:640557
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20060520/msgs/647053.html