Posted by Elroy on May 25, 2005, at 18:22:18
In reply to remeron and cortisol, posted by glenn on October 21, 2002, at 14:42:04
Older post, so I'm not sure if still being followed....
A number of clinical trials have shown that Remeron very clearly (and quikcly) reduced cortisol levels. See posted links. They also specified that this didn't necessarily "clear up"
the clinical depression that was involved. I think that it is vital that the LHPA Axis be "re-set" and that sometimes that alone can "cure" the problem. Other times "re-setting" the LHPA Axis can be the catalyst that allows other AD / AA regimens to work.http://www.pslgroup.com/dg/2030E2.htm
http://www.thieme.de/abstracts/pharmaco/abstracts2001/daten/187.html
http://www.docguide.com/news/content.nsf/news/8525697700573E1885256CFD004B4129
http://qualitycounts.com/fp/remeron.htm
http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Doi=68873As an example, I have primarily anxiety and / or a form of "psychotic depression" (which to be sounds just like the definition of anxiety)... and very highly elevated levels of cortisol (non Cushings or what they call "Pseudo" Cushings). I am currently being treated with Xanax XR and EMDR therapy. The EMDR therapy is really great, but doesn't seem to last. Others taking EMDR (with good results) have seemed puzzled as their treatments do seem to "last". So what if it is the dysfunctional LHPA Axis that was originally vaused by excessive chronic stress that is now "keeping the anxiety alive"? Would appropriate treatment with something like Remeron (low-dose, moderate term) or RU486 would not only lower the cortisol but "re-set" the LHPA Axis and allow the EMDR therapy to take hold?
BTW, did you get your cortisol levels re-checked while on the Remeron? What doses were you taking (I noted one of the studies had very positive effects with only 15 mg)? Are you still taking the Remeron? If not, how long did you take it and how was its withdrawal?
Elroy
PS.. I tried Holy Basil and didn't seem to notice anything especially helpful with it (though I tend to take a shotgun approach at any given time). What doses were / are you using?
X
X
X> Remeron , cortisol and the hpa axis.
>
> I have my doubts about remeron as an effective anti cortisol med, I may be wrong but consider the following:
>
> I know I have very high cortisol levels both from urinary and salivary tests yet Remeron did nothing for me.
> It was very tolerable and good for sleep but did not affect my mood at all. ( 3 months)
>
> In theory remeron sounds like an almost ideal medication, it affects both serotonin and noradrenaline and it seems lowers cortisol. It sounds like a mixture of celexa, reboxetine and anticort yet it has a pretty miserable reputation as an anti depressant, most of the reports I have seen suggest it as good for sleep and non sexually dysfunctionalising but certainly no more effective than any other ssri / ssnri.
>
> As opposed to RU 486 and holy basil it does not have a reputation for acting particularly quickly which would be surprising if it were that active against cortisol as both the aforementioned substances are.
>
> However I may be totally wrong here and maybe I have missed something, so please feel free to put me straight.
>
> This bit is mainly for pfinstegg. I am not sure about something you said in your response to NikkiT2.
> If I got this right you were explaining that successful dexamethasone suppression indicates that the hpa axis is working ok. I am not sure about this for a number of reasons:
>
> Firstly the test is I believe to distinguish between a tumor caused increase in cortisol and “ other causes”
> If the dexamethasone fails it is because it’s anti cortisol action does not affect tumor-produced cortisol.
> Whilst it clearly can cause cortisol suppression if there is no tumor, I am not sure that this indicates that the hpa axis is working ok. In my case for example dexamethasone causes a temporary drop in cortisol but it goes back after the 24 hours.
>
> Secondly if the hpa axis is ok (as evidenced by the dexamethasone working) how do the cortisol levels get so high in the first place and stay that way. I know stress is the original cause but if one was still ok hpa axis wise, cortisol levels should eventually return to within the norm on their own without dexamethasone suppression.
>
> I am not too sure about all of this and its making my poor brain hurt trying to express it so ill stop now and maybe you could let me know your thoughts.
>
> Glenn
poster:Elroy
thread:124535
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20050521/msgs/502866.html