Posted by Larry Hoover on May 28, 2003, at 11:48:47
In reply to Re: Mg potentiates benzos? Cool! » Larry Hoover, posted by johnj on May 28, 2003, at 11:02:20
> Larry,
>
> I have a few questions I would like to ask and hopefully tap you knowledge bank.
>
> I may be wrong, and please correct me, but I detect a slightly negative attitude towards medication from you.I don't tolerate meds well. I am Mr. side-effect. For me, they are often like trying to swat a gnat with a sledge-hammer. Meds saved my life. They may well do so again. But past that, I find I can't live with them.
I have a systemic negativity towards medicine as practised in Western society. "Treat 'em and street 'em" means drugs. Go to a doctor. Get a drug. I don't think that's the best way to do things.
When I'm not critically ill, I'm looking for better ways than drugs.
>I would like nothing else to go supplement solo but do not think it is possible right now. What I do feel is that if I could have had advance knowledge of my panic attack and subsequent depression I believe, granted this would have been 6 months prior knowledge, I would have stood a great chance of preventing it with stress reduction, excercise, and supplements.
Extending that thought....do you think it is presently possible to prevent future episodes by using supplements, stress reduction, and exercise as a prophylactic strategy?
What is necessary for that to work is a change in assumptions. Knowing you have options is of benefit, even if those options are not implemented.
> I do feel that my way of thinking aided the panic attack and depression. Given this includes my genetics, environment at the time, and my diet problems. The most frustrating part of my illness has been with supplements that have helped at first and then pooped out or whatever. This includes magnesium and fish oil.
Poop out in that context could be you just got used to it. It's taken me years to fine-tune my personal support system. I'm still tweaking it, every day. I forget to take things. I get bored or busy. But I find myself returning to some supplements over and over again.
Cognitive schemas, the patterns I project onto my world, are also something I've worked very hard at adapting to my reality. Cognitive dissonance, a lack of total congruence between a schema and the real world, can be a major source of distress. And, you may not even be able to figure out what's wrong, even though you know something is. I have no idea just how my supplements interact with my cognition, but I'm feeling better after adjusting both.
> What have you decided to do since magnesium stared making you feel groggy?I just don't take it every day.
>For me, if I replendished Mg I should have seen a continued benefit not insomnia, at least when I stopped the Mg.
The experimental method can be a problem in and of itself. You want to try and manipulate one variable at a time, so you can start to get a sense of cause and effect (I know correlation is not causation, but I think our brains are hard-wired to believe that it is). But it may be that, for example, magnesium works a certain way *if, and only if* it's combined with one or more other substances. You'll never know that if you just manipulate magnesium.
>It is hard to know what the cause or how to use the supplement. For example, does one use Mg for one week a month?(I don't expect you to answer this).
Maybe that works for *you*. Your experience is more important than the rationale you use to guide your experience.
>Same with fish oil it aided my sleep, but then had some sleep problems on it. I have found I am not the only one this has happened to either.
I'm wondering about antioxidant status, in conjunction with the fish oil. Poly-unsaturated fatty acids are the raw materials for a vast array of signalling compounds, like prostaglandins, leukotrienes and other cytokines, and so on. Many of those are formed by oxidation. And, maybe if you've been deficient for a period of time, your body has ramped up a variety of enzyme concentrations to make do while deficient. If you suddenly increase the raw materials for those enzymes, product concentration skyrockets before feed-back inhibition can shut the enzymes down.
One trial of a nutrient may not be conclusive.
> Very furstrating.
Yup. Frustrating, even. <grin>
> Remeron has helped, but I still have not so good days which are directly related to not so good nights. But, to be honest I feel weak that 1. I can't get remission even with drugs, and 2. supplements are not even giving me much relief.There's one of those schemas! Look at how your thinking has affected how you feel.
>Sometimes I think I need to be off all meds and start all over. But, do meds do us damage that is not reversible?(like possible receptor damage with ssri's). I think you alluded to this in regards to benzo's.
I wasn't meaning that benzos damage you. They don't fix what's really wrong, and the progression of the disease may continue, even with medication.
If you find substances that potentiate your meds, then maybe you can decrease your med dose. As you gain a new equilibrium, perhaps you find that certain side effects have also diminished, increasing a sense of wellness. That may allow you to employ other potentiating strategies more effectively (e.g. exercise). Depending on drugs as the "fix" is narrow-minded.
> Do you have an opinion on why poop out happens and possible remedies? I don't mean to put you on the spot, but you appear to know more than my doctors who want to give me med after med. Do you believe the possible dopamine depletion thinking that is out there?
It's entirely possible that poop-out occurs because of unique stresses placed on the biochemistry, which may create wholly new problems over time. That's one *theory*. It's a schema.
Another theory is that your body has innate set-points that it will tend towards, and given enough time, up-regulation and down-regulation and all that will get you back to the set-point (which may be, unfortunately, depressed). That's another schema.
Now, note how these schemas can affect decisions. Which is open-ended (comparatively), and more conducive to hope?
> Any opinions or data you have seen in relation to what I have written would be appreciated. Thanks Larry.
>
> johnjI'm glad to tell you about my schemas. I'm unique. My body's unique. My brain's unique. And so, my schemas must be unique. My thoughts aren't proof of anything. Your experience is.
Lar
poster:Larry Hoover
thread:229017
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030525/msgs/229720.html