Posted by temoigneur on May 2, 2003, at 3:12:19
In reply to Re: Sorry Ace, my pdoc I r taking ur lead, advice? » temoigneur, posted by ace on May 1, 2003, at 2:13:28
Ace, there are no words for the attention you've given me, thanks. I definately want to keep in touch, it seems we have a lot in common, and you eloquently described how using CBT for some types of anxiety is like adding salt to a wound. I went through an intense, four hr/day exposure desensitization program in California. The psychologist had to tell me to take it easy at one time, as I was approaching the therapy so vigorously, but I'm very confused. I seemed to be getting better, until they started talking about me returning home, I'm partially inclined to think that any "progress" that may have been attributed to the therapy was largely the effect of me leaving an environemnt of highly expressed emotion, (home) - which was hard for my situation - and settling into a more stable environment. My symptoms never went away except for one day when I went to berkeley, it was maybe the happiest day I can remember in about five years, I had my faculties about me, I didn't want to leave. But my response was confounding, the next day we went to napa valley, and I was so anxious, I thought I'd collapse and have a full blown seizure if I was approached by someone. When i went home, it was awful - Lending credence to your pt of view, I was worse than ever, I was now confronting situations head on as I had been taught and I found myself among other things, burning myself with an iron to ward off suicidal thoughts, wandering in a downtown parking lot, until my youth paster found me and went out of his way to take me home, then I went to church where I was compelled to reveal my sexual history to some of the kids - thankfuly they were wonderful, but I only on like this in the hope that if you had doubts that perhaps CBT could be helpful for all kinds of OCD, perhaps this could help put some perspective on things, although there are confounding factors I guess.
About me apologizing for using your mail, and feeling like I was an imposition, it's a combo of neurosis, and me having sent you an email, asking a number of questions, without response - but I TOTALLY understand that you were going through a terrible time with your ocd then, as I've kept up on your posts, and anyway, it's your perogative if you want to respond or not
Andrew, I'm stronger with words, I'm guessing that you might have a real aptitude for Chemistry and Physics, I enjoy them, but my gifts lie in verbal communication, the arts, ect.
Also you asked which email persuaded my doctor and I to go on nardil, I'll post it as "Ripples" haha.I know you must be a person of incredible fibre and intelligence to go through what you have, I would very much like to keep in touch.
b.
Take care, and God Bless.
> > Hi Ace, I first want to apologize, either here, or through yahoo, I got your addy and mailed you -
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> Sorry, I have no idea waht you mean. You emailed my yahoo email ? You emailed my other email? I reall can't understand. Also, your post titlw, what does it say? You Pdoc and you are taking my lead? What do you mean?
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> at the time I was so f^@&*% I wasn't thinking of basic considerance for personal space etc... Anyway, Ace, I'm the one with terrible anxiety, SP, Panic Attacks, GAD, and OCD. Dare I drop the sobering thought that these conditions wax and wane, and for myself especially when under pressure, which you of anyone would know, the symptomsare exacerbated.
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> > When the nebulous free-floating anxiety seems controlled, the OCD cripples me, and vica versa,
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> This statement I FULLY 100% understand, sometimes I feall happy to have derealization/anxiety and not OC to relieve the oCD at vice versa.
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> that's what i was wondering, how are you handling the condition, because I know we have the distinction of sharing the gammit of anxiety problems.
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> I'll tell you - I have a will made of iron, and this awful pain strengthens me. I have been crying at 4am in the more with fear in my gut, scared out of my head, ready to call ambulance to get me to mental ward...But I always go on - I'll use any and every resource that will alleviate a chemical imbalance which exists not because of me, but in spite of me. My will can NEVER be destroyed.
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> I'm on washout to go on Nardil - first time on an MAOI I've been on everything - did nardil work for a time for you, and also, are you using the clomipramine in conjuction with the nardil, I assume not, but I don't know.
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> OK, Nardil worked VERY well for my anxiety, but at times, esp in phobic situatins, it left a bit to be desired, But overall it was very good for anxiety. It on the whole provided 70% relief. But I am VERY strict with drugs and DEMAND 90%+ relief or a change in drug. SSRIs very rarely give these results. The usual nonses you hear is 40% relief from drug + CBT. Absolute nonsense. I don't by it. BTW, Nardil was unbelievably great for my depression and minor social phobic symptoms. I attribute the former to it's effects on raising (through th inhibition of enzymes) DA, NE, and 5H-T. The later I contibute especially to Nardil's affinity for gABA.
> I can not use Clomipramine with Anafranil. But other TCAs can occassionally be used with MAOIs so long as the TCA is initiated first. Nardil, withought doubt also helped my OCD - so much as 60-70%. But that remaining is still painful and intolerable.
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> > I brought one of your posts to my pdoc, and influenced by it, we decided I'd go on Nardil - was it beneficial for a time? - I know you're having terrible OCD now.
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> Which post did you bring to your doc? Remind him I study psychopharmacology at uni so I'm not ignorant. Absolutely, it WAS benificial. At times, a lot. But remember, my OCD is very severe and atypical. If yours is more typical it could easily destroy it. Actually, suprisingly so, OCD is not to bad at the moment. 2 days into my washout everything seems dandy. But at times on Nardil I had periods of hellish OCD, but MUCH less than when I was on Zoloft (I deem the SSRIs MUCH less effective than TCAs and mAOIs) I will always be on older drugs. A friend of mine father is a psychiatrist - he is on Parnate. Every serious psychiatrist knows the brilliance of TCAs and MAOIs. They are wisely noy bamboozeld by the marketing frenzy of SSRIs. TCAs and MAOIs did not have the same frenzy - they had to prove themselves and they did.
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> Sorry for all the Q's but if you're on Nardil and Anafrinil at the same time, do you know of a site, or anybody who knows about the track record of combining the two, as it is thought to be risky, and my neuropsych. refuses to combine them.
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> Your Neuropsych is absolutely correct. Bring this post to him with these augmentative strategies if Nardil falls short of 90-100% relief.
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> 1. Nardil + Pindolol (I'm not a big fan of Pindolol)
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> 2. Nardil + Clonidine (same opinion as Pindolol)
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> 3. Nardil + Bromocriptine
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> 4. Nardil + Elavil (MUST begin Elavil before Nardil)
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> 5. Nardil + Lithium (sceptical this would help, maybe for depression but)
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> 6. Nardil + Olanzapine 2.5-5mg nocte (Many clinical trials show Olanzapine is brilliant (in combo with an AD for OCD/anxiety)
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> 7. Nardil + Risperidone (last line - has more chance of TD than Zyprexa)
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> I forgot - Nardil + Carbamazepine (officially contraindicated, Pubmed and other sources have conducted trials in which there was no adverse effects)
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> Also, and this is a GREAT combo - Nardil + Klonopin (Klonopin has been shown, in many placebo controlled trials to be great for OCD alone or in combo with an AD. Best yet it is great for anxiety and Panic Disorder)
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> Right now, my OCD is bad, , but I think it will just manifest as general anxiety if I switch to clomipramine
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> Disagree - Clomipramine has a atropine-like sedative effect which is the antithesis of 'general anxiety'.
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> - need something to burn this at both ends.
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> > I understand your going through a stressful period right now, I'm sorry if anything I sent you upset, or discouraged you, my intentions DEFINATELY weren't malevolent.
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> What did you send me?????
> To what email????
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> Of course logically we stand to gain if we pool our logic and my specialist is one of the most highly regarded pdoc in Vancouver. Any input you could give would be awesome. I'm the one who wrote about aligning with OCFoundation..... there not being enough funding, well, on the bright side, I've never tried Anafrinil, the only drug I haven't, I mean I tried it for two or so days, and my head was spinning, but never given it a proper trial, so don't despair!!!! We both have this to turn to=)
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> > Hanging in there - btw, I want to be a psychiatrist, it sounds like you enjoy sciences too,
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> That's great Ben, I am one year away from starting my medical degree. I specificall want to be a psychopharmacologist - I have no interest in trying talk therapy, I dislike it, and find it inappropriate for psychiatric illness. Personality D/O, which, IMO, don't represent a chemical change in the brain, may respond to it, and also those of who are suffering the normal stresses of life. But not those who are having bizzare OCD thoughts which say 'touch this chair, or you'll never be happy, successful, married etc etc.'
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> I intend to get a thorough understanding of a patients sx and match a psychiatric drug which best suits the alleviation of such systems. Therapy with psychiatry D/O's has a lot to answer for, and in many cases makes the patient worse. They have a chemical imbalance in the brain. Analogous to this we can have a deep cut on the hand. Rubbing or focusing on the cut/biochemical imbalance (with your hands or through talk therapy) irritates things.
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> > Ben
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> > Respond if and when ever is convenient for you, don't feel any pressure or think that I'll think less of you if you don't get back right away - just trying to avoid a fourth, (third - lost count)death door episode hahaha,
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> I just don't understand what you mean. Please explain.
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> but I'm okay today
> > btw if you don't want to post here, and you feel comfortable exchanging emails, bentley79@hotmail.com
> >
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> Sure I will post you. Do you have much interest in chemistry? Physics. I would love to discuss these issues.
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> Yeah, again, what post did you DR see of mine?
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> God Bless, and good luck to you.
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> Feel free to Keep in contact.
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> Ace.
poster:temoigneur
thread:222834
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030429/msgs/223791.html