Posted by Larry Hoover on December 5, 2002, at 9:13:01
In reply to for Larry - tumeric and anti-inflammatory effects, posted by IsoM on December 5, 2002, at 0:49:01
> Larry, I don't doubt for a minute the reports I've read about tumeric being a COX-2 inhibitor but I wonder in its ability as a pain killer. I'm sure that if I continue to use tumeric regularly, my joints will heal better (as much as they can) & feel better. But I've noticed no pain killing effects whatsoever. Simply because something works as an NSAID doesn't seem to necessarily means it can lessen the pain. I'm curious if tumeric (or curcumin) has any anti-prostaglandin properties. I'll do some more checking on the weekend to see what might be said about that.
You're quite right that anti-inflammatory is not synonymous with analgesic. Usually, the former is also the latter.
Just a little bit about the chemistry. The enzyme most people know as COX (cyclo-oxygenase) has quite another name, PES, prostaglandin endoperoxide synthase. Anything that inhibits COX inhibits prostaglandin synthesis.
Curcumin goes beyond that, however. It inhibits NF-kappaB,IL-1, and IL-8, and other pro-inflammatory regulatory factors. It actually inhibits the expression of the genes coding for these molecules, blocking the whole inflammatory cascade. There is evidence that curcumin is particularly effective in rheumatoid arthritis for these latter reasons.
> So I'm curious, do you find your pain diminishes from tumeric?
It goes away totally, something I seldom get from prescription NSAIDS, even the pharmaceutical COX-2 inhibitors Mobicox, Vioxx, or Celebrex. Pain diminishes over one hour, and usually remains away entirely for 12-20 hours. I also seem to have a bit of a pain holiday, meaning diminished pain even after the main effect has worn off.
>And if it does, do you think part of the benefit could be placebo effect?
Not after all these trials. I live in constant pain, and I only take something when I grow weary of the pain, or it flares up. Turmeric works for me like nothing else. Perhaps I'm biased, but not placeboed.
>Not that I wouldn't mind having some placebo effect myself. I've temporarily stopped my Vioxx for the last week & half too. I want the tumeric to have a fair & lengthy (if need be) trial.
I'd hate to have you in pain using something that is ineffective for you. There are an amazing number of health benefits from tumeric, quite apart from the COX-2 thing. I just did a Medline search, and I'm quite astounded. I just read that curcumin inhibits an inositol pathway in the brain, suggesting it might have direct mood-regulatory effects.
Why don't you take some Vioxx, and see what it does *with* turmeric?
BTW, you mentioned shoulder pain as your big issue. If you have impingement, only surgery is likely to get past that. I had an anterior acromioplasty and cuff repair, and even though God wouldn't recognize what I have left, I function at 100% again. I can even throw fastball.
poster:Larry Hoover
thread:130605
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20021203/msgs/130620.html