Posted by Alan on October 23, 2002, at 10:38:28
In reply to Re: My Klonopin (Clonazepam) isnt working ?? » hiba, posted by Squiggles on October 23, 2002, at 7:34:59
> HIBA,
>
> I hope you find something to wean you off PROZAC--
> it is ironic that these SSRIs present with as many
> and possibly as serious discontinuation problems
> as benzos.Actually more serious since the manufacturers have tried to dumb down the public with euphemisms such as "discontinuation syndrome" for withdrawal and "poop-out" for tolerance. They even have covered up their own test results which showed such manifestations during drug trials. That is what the paxil suit is all about. BZD tapering has been the norm from the very beginning as suggested by their own manufacturers.
>
> I think you make excellent points about the relative
> side effect profile of all drugs. It is true that they
> all carry their risk and that the risk is described
> in the brochure that comes along with the drug (a tome
> in itself for the busy doctor with 100 patients to
> tend to).
>
> I also agree that some benzos are necessary for
> convulsion conditions such as epilepsy.But not long term for chronic anxiety disorders?
Infact,
> I think that the correct administration of benzos
> may not be that problematic. But there's the rub:
> "the correct administration"And this has been my point all along. The proper diagnosis, teatment, and management (follow-through) is what will eliminate a majority of the misunderstandings about what some peole are misunderstanding as the "dangers" of these medications.
--it is only with the
> loud group advocacy of such groups as the benzo
> group, that it has been brought to the attention
> of physicians and pharmacists that benzos can be
> addictive in the same way as heroin. And by that I
> mean that after some time the drug will not only
> NOT work, but created withdrawal which is horrible
> and can be mistaken for another disorder.Actually, the stridency of these "advocacy" groups (a euphemism unto itself) is finally deterring doctors and patients alike - especially those that follow the appropriate diagnosis, treatment, and mangement - from being persuaded of the commonality and epidemic terms in which their arguments are framed.
The "facts" have been so demagoguged by these groups that these sites don't even pass the laugh test when it comes to physicians that know their stuff about these medications.
The attempt at polarising the situation can not work in an atmosphere of anecdotal evidence and extrapolation based on an individual's experience.
>
> One more thing that is different about benzos
> from other drugs, is the number of people who
> are taking them are have been in the past 30 yrs.
> or so. I do not have the statistics at hand but
> I know that Xanax and Valium for example were way
> understimated in their adverse effects and given
> out as the aspirin of anxiety.
>
> The result is--a generation addicted to benzos.It is precisely for this reason (inappropriate prescriptions) that many physicians and patients have had trouble with these medications. That's just part of the life-cycle of a drug. The backlash being felt only now after overprescription when the drug first came out. Same is happening now with SSRI'S.
> And once again, I do not have anything against
> addiction--infact, I wish they would consider
> giving opioids for anxiety on a small dosage level--
> but the unexpected and savage withdrawals as well
> as the protracted withdrawal syndrome.
>
> I believe that Dr. Heather Ashton and Dr. Busto and
> others have described these symptoms very well.Unexpected? After all of the rationale that you've presented? Savage for those that are drug addicts or who were mismanaged or misdiagnosed or misprescribed, or had a predisposition to addictive behaivor in the first place - maybe. Adjust statistically for all of those variables and you've basically got a red herring as far as the importance of bzd "dangers" are concerned.
Of course that doesn't mean that there aren't bad reactions to medications....but proportionally, bzds have proven to be at least 75% effective in the vast majority of the population for good reason.
By the way, "protracted withdrawal syndrome" is not even on the radar screen when it comes to medical diagnosis is concerned. And the more those that push for such a diagnosis will continue to hurt a cause which may be legitimate.
There are long term consequences for many on many different drugs that deserve being looked at since these drugs are highly idiosyncratic in some respects. For instance, "protracted" meaning what exactly? For those that prescribe Zoloft and don't expect a withdrawl and see one after 4 weeks...is that protracted - simply because the doctor wasn't expecting it?
And the claim that manifestations of various symptoms are a "syndrome". What is to distinguish these syndromes from other maladys or return of or worsening of original symptoms when heightened symptoms could easily appear while the patient was on the medication? What is to be done about these possibilities - especially if the point of getting the medical comunity to look at something seriously is to persuade rather than hype? It goes against human nature to be persuasive and yell hyperbole at the same time.
I'm not saying that these possibilities are to be dismissed, but to exclusively pinpoint anecdotal reports as fact hurts the cause if indeed these problems do exist.
But one can only cry wolf for so long.
>
> I will read that WHO report today or tomorrow I hope
> and look forward to gleaning through these aspects.I'm sure that your observations will prove to be quite interesting.
Alan
poster:Alan
thread:124171
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20021019/msgs/124846.html