Posted by Mireille on July 30, 2002, at 19:06:39
In reply to Re: I'll tell you what happened}}cybercafe, posted by cybercafe on July 27, 2002, at 3:01:07
> hmmm.. actually most drugs have been studied for long term efficacy, and certainly teratogenic effects....
Well, between you and oracle I am learning lots about this. I guess I've just gotten a few too many "shady" answers from docs, but it's true that everything has side effects and that one has to weight them, that's all.
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> ... in fact i find time and time again depressed people (myself certainly included) tend to focus on the negative and the side effects and not the fact that the medication will make them well...
> so personally i would prefer it if a doctor were super-positive to make up for my negativity...Yeah, that's how mine was, and that's how I got hooked on Effexor. I mean, at the time, it was splendid - I quit being suicidal, I lost 25 pounds...but now I have plateaud, and hopefully it's not that I need *stronger* meds, but that I need to try life off of them for a while. I feel stronger now; last time I tried to go off them, I subsequently lost my job and had to move back home. *Not* an ideal time to go off meds!
But I am at a very good, very stable place right now, so we'll see. The other big factor is that I want to get pregnant next year, and I want to have these drugs out of my system before I even think about that.
> seriously... people are suffering or dieing because they can imagine what side effects will be like, but not being rid of their depression... it's a very real problemWell, I know too many who are the opposite now! Either because there is too long a wait list for p-docs (your country) or they are just too darn expensive (mine), they are doling out meds like candy here. I've heard it's the same in Europe in some places. In fact, i have a friend who this very day came back from her family doctor - she was suffering from what seemed like bad PMS two months in a row - with a bunch of samples of Prozac! He has put her on them for three months - for bad PMS! I mean, maybe her symptoms were more indicative of depression, I'm not sure. Still, Prozac seems a bit much...and he did tell her to only take one if she felt bad, otherwise to not take them every day. Is that strange, or do I just know very little about Prozac (this is true)?
> ... the problem with psychotherapy is it's just too expensive... who is going to pay for it? ...
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> and how effective is it?I know, you're right. Who is going to pay...hmmm...well here, I would be the one! $100 a week, thank you very much whether or not I'm a student, thank you very much...there are alternatives, but public practice just isn't the best...yes, the more we talk on this site, the more I am aware that NO ONE knows enough about mental health or wants to deal with it...the drug companies sure are dealing with it, but not our governments! It's still too taboo. That's got to change soon considering how many of us seem to have problems/how many drugs the doctors keep doling out! Someone has to take notice and I guess you're right - we have to stick together and lobby for it ourselves!
> ... really? i was thinking about moving to paris, but was scared i wouldn't be able to find a half decent p-doc there....
> ... though i find often that in systems where things are free, the wait to see someone is just unreasonable....I'm not sure if the docs are decent. It's true that she didn't like hers at first. Not sure if she stayed with him; haven't talked to her about that recently. However, I know she didn't have to wait at all to get the doc. I've heard it's as horrid as America in both the UK and Canada - hassle-wise. UK is especially known for being the worst socialized system. I saw a show on it here but don't remember the details at all.
> .. yeah... and perhaps the problem below that is stigma... or that we do not stick up for ourselves... we don't organize... we don't protest...Again, you said it. I think that if no one else will, we ought to make the move! As I said that, a very strange image of a large group of mentally challenged folks marching through the streets just came to my mind...I being one of those folks, but still, see the stigmas we produce in our society? The first image in my head is that of a bunch of loonies marching through the streets, but I am one of those loonies! And I still had that image. Good lord. We have quite an obstacle to surmount.
Heard an interesting thing on National Public Radio today: the statistics that men have depression only 1/2 as much as women are now said to be false - it's just that depression manifests itself highly differently in men for the most part - i.e., not as many eating disorders, etc. But still - a great leap forward - since we all knew that it isn't just women who suffer from depression! The researchers are now really looking at it from a different angle..that's progress...
> i have never lived in the US, but i have lived in canada and the UK and they are both quite lacking...Well, there goes my idealism...:) No, I think that something obviously in between what you have for the most part in Europe and what we have would work...I'm not even sure...our system is such a mess right now. Things come out in the news every day...last night, it was "drug known to help cancer patients costs enormous amounts of money...too much for most people...but its research and manufacture are paid for by American tax dollars!" So screwed up. W. has to go! AND we have to get someone in our presidential office who is going to work on health care...like Clinton tried to, then let it slide because the main problem is the people...they don't want to change anything but they whine that it's messed up...
> in my case i find circumstances (socializing for example) have very strong effects on my mood (positive) ....
> on the other hand, my father convinced me that if i took medication i would go blind and become stupid, so it wasn't until after 2 years of trying to do without i realized that i would either have to take medication or kill myself.. so blindness and stupidity seemed like a reasonable sacrifice :)I had the same experience. In fact, I think many people of our generation do - my mother threatened me when I was going to take it - told me terrible things would happen to me, that I was giving in, a drug-taker...then, she begged me to get back on it last time I went off and had to move back in with them! No, I've been there, and I think it is largely situational...just like seasonal depression, dependent on outside stimuli (or lack thereof)...I know that right now is a good time for me since I've just gotten happily married and am looking forward to a pending trip to teach English in France (in a year, but still)...on the other hand, I'm trying to finish grad school this year, which I previously dropped out of due to depression...again, there was more to it than that - boyfriend of 2 years suddenly dumping me "out of the blue", having a horrid roommate situation, etc...then my doc put me on Paxil which made me gain 40 pounds, and for a bulemic, not a good thing. Anyway, I am a bit nervous but I do know that I can always go back on if I have to. The bottle is there, but I am going to try to overcome it myself.
You know, it's funny, but going through withdrawals this time, I know how much of it is chemical so it's a lot less scary. When I say I want to die, and feel just awful, I realize mentally that it's a chemical low in my brain causing it, not any real-life situation. Nothing is really that bad. Ok, I've put on 25 pounds that I've tried and tried to lose and nothing works, but there are worse things in life, and getting off this medication will help that. Anyway, the "dark thoughts" are a lot less scary this time now that I know how much of it is chemical, and now that I'm decided to try other options before going back on the drugs, it's easier to get through them.
> up here in canada it is free, .. you just can't get an appointment ..So it's a lose-lose situation! Yes, I guess there is no Utopia. We're getting toward some sort of better system, I hope, everywhere. There goes the idealism again...
> ... yep drugs are cheaper and often more effective ...
...at least in the short-term. They make you feel better right away. Although, they seem to poop out for lots of people after a while, that is, unless you are willing to up your dosage ad infinitum, which I am terrified of because I think I would just become a walking zombie, or a drug addict - I mean, it's so scary to *need* a drug! We all feel that I think...we don't know what to think, should we stay on forever, try different ones every time one poops out, what? I'm not sure.
> .. but if we did provide free psychotherapy, wouldn't everyone use it, and could we afford that?
I don't know...sounds like that's the problem at least in Canada and UK? Yes, and the people who needed it most probably wouldn't get it somehow...how sad, it seems to always come down to "survival of the fittest/richest"...I guess it's human nature...
> ... okay, but this is the same with everything... we don't know anything for 100% sure ... but it does seem like there is quite a lot of information out there suggesting that antidepressants are quite safeTrue, and the AIDS drugs have the same problem, as well as the new drugs for some types of cancer...people at that stage are willing to try anything to stay alive, much like us, I guess. It's a matter of life and death, often.
> ... yep... i have often wondered if it might not be better if money were more fairly distributed.. who knows... perhaps this is just evolution .... but it certainly is not consistent for people to behave this way, and then claim fairness or goodnessWow, we end up with a lot of rhetorical and philosophical questions on this site, don't we? I do love knowing that other people are thinking of the same types of things, though, don't you? If nothing else, we realize that we are really in this together. The wealthy people I work for are awfully nice, and they give to charity, etc., it's just that they have such better lives period! Makes one want to be rich just to live longer. I don't know, I can't help it if it's not my goal. Maybe it should be...or as you say, at least to play the lottery! :)
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poster:Mireille
thread:112746
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020725/msgs/114478.html