Posted by cybercafe on July 27, 2002, at 3:01:07
In reply to Re: I'll tell you what happened}}cybercafe, posted by Mireille on July 26, 2002, at 21:33:17
>patients and are overworked themselves...it just might be nice if they laid it out for you and said, "look, this drug hasn't been tested in the long term, or on pregnant women, but it's worked for people with depression in the short term..."
hmmm.. actually most drugs have been studied for long term efficacy, and certainly teratogenic effects....
... in fact i find time and time again depressed people (myself certainly included) tend to focus on the negative and the side effects and not the fact that the medication will make them well...
so personally i would prefer it if a doctor were super-positive to make up for my negativity...seriously... people are suffering or dieing because they can imagine what side effects will be like, but not being rid of their depression... it's a very real problem
> Even people with serious depression - I know it's chemical, but I think we all need to learn coping skills...what if we all find out one day that this drug or that one is seriously detramental to our health, and they pull them all
... the problem with psychotherapy is it's just too expensive... who is going to pay for it? ...
and how effective is it?
> Ok, now I got on a roll - here is what should be done - my friend in France went to a shrink there, and ALL psychotherapy is government-reimbursed, so she got all of her fees reimbursed to her! It ends up being free! Sorry, but I think... really? i was thinking about moving to paris, but was scared i wouldn't be able to find a half decent p-doc there....
... though i find often that in systems where things are free, the wait to see someone is just unreasonable....>later on that you think the real problem is that we do not give enough money to mental health research/aid...that is why there are tons of mentally ill people in jail and on the streets
.. yeah... and perhaps the problem below that is stigma... or that we do not stick up for ourselves... we don't organize... we don't protest...
>New York...sorry, but SOCIALIZED medicine, that's my idea. We are the only first-world country outside of SOuth Africa who does not have socialized medicine.
i have never lived in the US, but i have lived in canada and the UK and they are both quite lacking...
> Benzos? Sorry, I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to all of the different types of drugs out there...but it's great to hear your story!
benzodiazepines, for example, valium or clonazepam
>mainly chemical! Still, I think that we can learn coping mechanisms that can help us off the drugs...like, learning not to snap at people right away or say what you think (did that twice at work today, although to a couple of evil people so I quite enjoyed it! Plus I only have two weeks left...:)
in my case i find circumstances (socializing for example) have very strong effects on my mood (positive) ....
on the other hand, my father convinced me that if i took medication i would go blind and become stupid, so it wasn't until after 2 years of trying to do without i realized that i would either have to take medication or kill myself.. so blindness and stupidity seemed like a reasonable sacrifice :)>there who have far less money...)I think that it should be subsidized...doctors give us scrips and free samples because they are so pressed for time/money, but they wouldn't be if things were perhaps better regulated?
up here in canada it is free, .. you just can't get an appointment ..
> See? There you go, proving my point. We use the drugs because they tend to be cheaper (esp. free samples, and if you have health insurance, the copay isn't bad). Maybe someone can
... yep drugs are cheaper and often more effective ...
.. but if we did provide free psychotherapy, wouldn't everyone use it, and could we afford that?
> Well, we think they do, because they make us feel better - sometimes fast. So we think they have more positive effects than negative - *think*! We don't know. The next generation will
... okay, but this is the same with everything... we don't know anything for 100% sure ... but it does seem like there is quite a lot of information out there suggesting that antidepressants are quite safe
>better life money buys you in this country. I mean, seriously - they always buy organic, shop in the health food stores, go to health spas for vacation, get massages, have tons of different shrinks...we should all be so lucky (i say lucky because many of them are the next generation inheritors of the wealth their parents worked for; they don't even work). That's why I want to
... yep... i have often wondered if it might not be better if money were more fairly distributed.. who knows... perhaps this is just evolution .... but it certainly is not consistent for people to behave this way, and then claim fairness or goodness
>move back to France - don'[t get me wrong, I adore America and am very patriotic! - but I ate so much vbetter there for CHEAP - and my doctor's appointments were about $10-20 a visit - plus, that was reimbursed by the state, even though I'm an American! I want to bring that kind of thinking back home, but we are quite stuck in our ways...... how hard is it to get free health care in france if you are not a citizen?
... i have UK (EU?) citizenship btw...> But...ideally isn't that his or her job? And if he/she can't answer the question, shouldn't they recommend you to someone who can? I recently
how can you tell if someone needs medication? ... usually you'd say that if their problems are signifigant enough for them to seek help, they could benefit from medication... other than that, .... well i suppose the hamilton rating scale could be used.. but again, that would take quite a bit of time....
>heard from a nurse friend of mine that the reason they won't tell you you should go to a p-doc instead is that then, they would lose money in giving you the referral. Again - all about money! You can't tell me it's just human nature. We have to keep ourselves in check!
... i suspect if one is not seriously depressed you probably would not be referred to a pdoc because you would just end up waiting for months when you could receive adequate treatment from your family doc...
> I'm glad...your docs at least seem to be thinking before doling out meds. And that's strange - why would it be tough for a doctor to prescribe you lamotrigine? Is it rare? New? I've not heard of it..... the newer drugs of course aren't as proven .... or worst case, older docs havn't taken the time to really know the newer meds
> Given me the name of a good p-doc, I guess. But she would lose money if she did that, and she won't do that. But then again - I can't afford to pay for a p-doc now anyway! I get 10 visits cheaply on my insurance, but I hate that - 10 is barely enough to get started, then you get sucked in to someone who is normally $100 a session!
hmmmm... i actually think most family docs realize that a pdoc wouldn't have time to see you, so they don't refer you because it's in your own best interest...
> Thanks again for your kind thoughts. I think that I'm actually getting a clearer head now. I will surmount this thing inasmuch as I can without drugs - but again, I wouldn't judge you or anyone who chooses or needs to be on them. Right now, and until the drug companies get real with us (ha!), they are simply our best option.
... or until we win the lottery right ;)
poster:cybercafe
thread:112746
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020725/msgs/113905.html