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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 26. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2014, at 18:15:22
i lost it a bit at admin chick.
woke up this morning and was like 'okay, righty-ho today is the day i play their game...' so i set off for uni... to find the tutors for the foundation program i applied to... to suck up best i could. since that seems to be how you get a place in that.
i found the math lady. it was mixed. she was fine... then she played all dumb for a bit... and i got angry... and then things got a bit better again...
she said it was admin chick who i really needed to talk to.
i went to chemistry chick... and ended up apologising that i felt like it was really unprofessional my going and chatting to her... but that was how things seemed to be with the program...
she said it was admin chick who i really needed to talk to.
i went to see admin chick... her door was partly open... she was on the phone. i waited outside.
she was talking about me. probably with math chick. she said i admitted to being on the autistic spectrum when asked and questioned my ability to conduct myself appropriately in the classroom. etc.
when she hung up i knocked and went in. i said the only questions she should have about me are about my inability to play this sucking up game...
i went off at her. raised my voice. not heaps... but raised it, yeah.
unprofessionalism. that is what i do not deal with. how DARE she.
i went to disability support. the lady there was great. listened. have an appointment with a guy on monday. i don't expect i'll get to do the foundations program... but at the very least something needs to be done about her lack of professionalism. it isn't okay. and it most certainly isn't okay for her to disclose information about a persons disability to third parties.
How DARE she call my competency into question like that. she wasn't even capable of shutting her pie hole for a couple minutes to hear the message i wanted to her re: my application. See... Here's the thing: She doesn't have a degree. And it is simply beyond her comprehension why someone might want / need more than one. And I clearly can't do one now (at my age) because... Then it might start to look like it's within her power that she doesn't have one...
She gets off on throwing her weight around with the selection thing because... It is probably the only power she's got in her life.
If it wasn't for the fact that she's got power over me I'd feel empathy for her. But since she's in the position she's in... I wish she'd curl into a hole and die. HOnestly.
I AM SO F*CK*NG ANGRY RIGHT NOW
Posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2014, at 18:29:24
In reply to oops, i did it again, posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2014, at 18:15:22
because she's just really not very smart. and that isn't her fault. and she doesn't understand. she can't discriminate between an important message and an unimportant message on the basis of content... so the only way she knows to convey importance is to make the font a bigger size or put more of the content in red or something. people like me... well... i bet she wishes i'd curl into a hole and die.
Posted by Partlycloudy on February 6, 2014, at 18:55:01
In reply to Re: oops, i did it again, posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2014, at 18:29:24
I bet. No one knows how we feel, or how their reactions create a reaction in us. It's not about a spectrum of anything at all, but being sensitive and looking around us. People just don't do it. Someone like me is particularly tuned to it. But ignorance is intolerable.
For me, it is finding the Right Person in each situation to help me to get optimal results. I am not special, THEY are. Use the system to find those people for you.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2014, at 23:14:58
In reply to Re: oops, i did it again, posted by Partlycloudy on February 6, 2014, at 18:55:01
yeah. there are people in the vicinity who can help me.
it is lack of professionalism from people who are in positions of power whose job it is to look out for me / my welfare. people who are imcompetent with that and / or people who abuse that. that is what i do not / cannot cope with.
other people can play the game to figure how to do what needs to be done. i just... feel so really f*ck*ng mad that these people are in these positions when there are so very many people out there who would be TERRIFIC in that role, who are suffering immensely because they AREN'T. to see someone so grossly unsuited to it... doing it...
i know i should feel empathy for them. can't be much fun for them, either. but i just feel so f*ck*ng mad at how many people suffer BECAUSE OF THEM.
these same people... in different positions... e.g., as my students... i have nothing but empathy for them. but in a position of power over me? getting to decide my future when they have no f*ck*ng ability to comprehend anything at all about where i've come from, what i could go on to do etc etc...
crabs. crabs in a bucket.
i feel so sad. i thought i got away from them.
:(
Posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2014, at 23:23:41
In reply to Re: oops, i did it again, posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2014, at 23:14:58
i have the weekend to try and calm down.
i will check the university policy on auditing university courses. i suspect i can get legal people / disability people onside and that that decision needs have nothing whatsoever to do with the program co-ordinator.
she seems to think she can interpret their handbook any way she likes... we will see about that.
i suspect she got this job because nobody cared very much about this program. they didn't think it mattered particularly much to anybody's future, i suspect. bit like bio-med or whatever... not really enough viable candidates even though there is a significant entry cap on the number of applicants... not like phd level study where probably 2/3 more are viable than the number of places that are offered (and where completion rates are grim anyway and they have no further way of predicting liklihood of that).
i'm fairly sure i won't be doing the program now.
but she needs to know:
- it is inappropriate to ask people their age etc in an interview setting. foundations applicants might not know any better - but that doesn't make it acceptable.
- it is inappropriate to disclose private / confidental information about a persons disability to third parties without their permission.
- it is inappropriate to call into question a person's ability to conduct themselves appropriately due to their having a certain dx when they have demonstrated competency.
she needs to know that that is what set me off. and that while other people might not know any better, that doesn't make it acceptable.
and the university (at least someone who is capable of understanding my position at the moment with respect to potential careers etc) needs to understand that she wasn't going to grant me entry to this program (description provided in the handbook, interview criterion available) due to ... insert her (irrelevant) reasons here ...
i think...
that is all.
Posted by Twinleaf on February 6, 2014, at 23:29:43
In reply to Re: oops, i did it again, posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2014, at 23:14:58
I feel very bad to see you lose your self-confidence because of inappropriate/ incompetent remarks like the one's you just heard. Maybe always remember what a good mind you have - and also try to remember not to lose your temper even when provoked? (that's the hardest one for everyone, I think - knowing you're angry but choosing not to express it right then).
Posted by alexandra_k on February 7, 2014, at 0:27:23
In reply to Re: oops, i did it again » alexandra_k, posted by Twinleaf on February 6, 2014, at 23:29:43
perhaps it was...
i didn't really have anything to lose.
i mean, she'd already decided to tease / taunt me along.
i'm incapable of doing the self-depreciatory sucking up that was required to win a place.
so.
my application got declined this afternoon.
that is a very good thing, indeed. it shows that my getting a place wasn't dependent on anything other than her whim... that my conversation with her today was the reason for her declining me. that places are a matter of her discretion and english chick and maths chick (the actual tutors for the course) really don't have any say.
we will see what the university thinks about this.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 7, 2014, at 0:31:12
In reply to Re: oops, i did it again, posted by alexandra_k on February 7, 2014, at 0:27:23
omg. the chemistry people just put a picture of what kind of calculator is allowed (for bio-med) up on their resources... lmfao... someone is looking out for me. i have to believe that.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 7, 2014, at 0:50:50
In reply to Re: oops, i did it again, posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2014, at 23:23:41
i think there are people who do want me to succeed, actually.
i think that there are people who genuinely do want more diversity in medicine. the problem is that you also need competent practitioners and quite a lot is required for that. in terms of background knowledge, yeah. in terms of your ability to acquire quite a lot of new knowledge in a fairly quick time frame.
i think they have opened up the social science pathway to medicine in the genuine hope that they do get a bunch more people applying... i don't think it is just a gimmick. i think they are genuinely sad that not many are getting in on that pathway... mostly... because their students aren't meeting the grade cut-off, i think. they can waive the physics... they can lighten the load (for verbal students) by giving them a bunch of woffly crap (sort of interesting, to be fair)... but all that... isn't enough to get them A's (the cherished A f*ck*ng minus for org chem).
maths... maths maths maths maths... what am i going to do?
i got some of the course books for last year's foundations maths... maybe i'll have to go back and suck up some more and get the course books for the other units... then do them my f*ck*ng self. AGAIN. ffs. :(
Posted by Twinleaf on February 7, 2014, at 8:21:00
In reply to Re: oops, i did it again, posted by alexandra_k on February 7, 2014, at 0:50:50
I'm so sorry about that - do hope there is still a good way forward. Here in the US, an applicant to med school is much more likely to be admitted if they have NOT majored in pre-med. Any social science or humanities major is thought to give applicants more depth and understanding of other people.
Posted by Phillipa on February 7, 2014, at 9:11:11
In reply to Re: oops, i did it again » alexandra_k, posted by Twinleaf on February 7, 2014, at 8:21:00
Twinleaf seriously why is this? I would think pre med would be a pre requisite? Phillipa
Posted by Twinleaf on February 7, 2014, at 9:24:04
In reply to Re: oops, i did it again » Twinleaf, posted by Phillipa on February 7, 2014, at 9:11:11
You just need to take 5 courses at college level: Biology, Physical Chemistry, Organic Chemistry, Physics and Calculus. That leaves room to major in literature, history - anything you want.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 7, 2014, at 22:29:48
In reply to Re: oops, i did it again » Phillipa, posted by Twinleaf on February 7, 2014, at 9:24:04
> You just need to take 5 courses at college level: Biology, Physical Chemistry, Organic Chemistry, Physics and Calculus. That leaves room to major in literature, history - anything you want.
wow. yeah. how many people get to earn A's in those classes while 'majoring in anything else'
?
Posted by Twinleaf on February 7, 2014, at 23:03:59
In reply to Re: oops, i did it again, posted by alexandra_k on February 7, 2014, at 22:29:48
That would be how many pre-med courses you need to take to be qualified to apply to med school over a 4-year college undergraduate course. It would be on average about one course out of the five you would take per semester. There are also more accelerated ways to do it, which are harder.
Posted by baseball55 on February 7, 2014, at 23:22:35
In reply to Re: oops, i did it again » Phillipa, posted by Twinleaf on February 7, 2014, at 9:24:04
> You just need to take 5 courses at college level: Biology, Physical Chemistry, Organic Chemistry, Physics and Calculus. That leaves room to major in literature, history - anything you want.
The MCAT requires biochemistry, microbiology, 2 semesters of organic chemistry, 2 semesters of physics -which in turn requires 2 semesters of calculus. So more than 5 courses. But still only about 10 or 12. Plenty of room for a social science or humanities major.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 8, 2014, at 0:10:51
In reply to Re: oops, i did it again, posted by baseball55 on February 7, 2014, at 23:22:35
haha.
yes...
but you can't get away with scraping B-'s for those compulsory papers. you need A's. so... realistically... the A grades come from people who specialise / major in... the vicinity.
not, typically, over in drama, for instance.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 8, 2014, at 0:22:56
In reply to Re: oops, i did it again, posted by alexandra_k on February 8, 2014, at 0:10:51
i think there is a weird blend here...
bio-med is notorious... for there being around 1,500 students who mostly all start out the year intending on applying for medicine.
the first semester is full of... around half of those people coming to terms with the fact that they are not viable candidates. they aren't sufficiently prepared (in most instances that it is) and / or they aren't sufficiently motivated (in some instances this is it) to put in the amount of work that is required to pull A's in their papers. Which is what they need.
It is about now that people's blogs start shifting from 'I'm gonna be a doctor!' to 'I'm finding work-life balance!'.
Of those 700 or so candidates who are viable... More than half still don't get a place. Probably around... 1/3 are fairly obviously lab rat rather than people contact kinda people, though... So...
So it is hard to say.
I think that genuinely medical admissions would like to have greater diversity in the medical intake. The problem is that you can only waive / loosen requirements in the math / chemistry / physics direction so far before... You are simply setting people up to fail medicine. Because they can't keep up. They simply aren't capable of meeting the competency standards (once you are in grades don't matter).
So...
I think they would like to have me. I think there are a bunch of people rooting for me. Perhaps the entire philosophy department. Or close... Other people, too. But I also think that there are a bunch of people who don't want it to be a viable option for me. Because it makes them feel like they have dropped the ball somewhat on precisely the same opportunity being available to them. Or because of... Whatever whatever... Their own insecurites. Their own investment into their offspring. Whatever. I think there are a bunch of people who don't like the idea that the future generation of doctors might largely be comprised of rich kids with next to no genuine life experience. I think there are a bunch of people who would genuinely like to see diversity.
But currently I am experiencing a fatal clash between prepratory chemistry and prepratory physics. Which suggests that... Uh... What, exactly? You can't prepare for both at the same time? ffs.... I swear... Some things occur just to try my patience...
Posted by alexandra_k on February 8, 2014, at 0:36:09
In reply to Re: oops, i did it again, posted by alexandra_k on February 8, 2014, at 0:22:56
the foundations coordinator person has given me...
precisely the kind of reception i feared i'd get from my medicine interview. i mean, really. the reasons i had for being concerned about disclosing dx / disability to them, are because i am anxious to avoid precisely the kind of reaction that the disclosure invoked in her.
the discrimination i feel i may be subjected to on disclosure is precisely the discrimination that i feel she subjected me to.
the sort of mean-spirited attempt to undermine... the viewing me (hostile) as 'other' as... a threat? as... someone to undermine at all costs...
is precisely what i was concerned about.
in seeing it in her... i suppose i get to see what (if in fact anything) i can do about it. i can write up my concerns... about lack of professionalism for the most part... and see what happens. see how she responds to what i write, at the very least.
with her... i genuinely feel that there is stupidity that is preventing comprehension. i don't expect that i would find that over in medicine. i think there is some kind of... defensiveness, too. because i said about how i was expected to become an english teacher and about how that limited opportunities for me... and well... it turns out that she basically is an english teacher. so now the dynamic makes sense to me. she feels affronted that i attacked english teaching as a profession (aka: her personally) by saying that i didn't want to be one. so now i need to suck up her *ss about what a wonderful job she has got and about how so very sad i am that she (special snowflake that she is) doesn't get to teach me english. because (clearly) she has so very much to teach me. not. which is... precisely her point. she was like 'why are you applying to study stuff you could teach'. and i was like 'i'm not applying to study THOSE CLASSES'. ffs. if only she were literate our conversations might go much better...
anyway... i most certainly don't need her. which was precisely my point. and is precisely why she doesn't think that it is at all in her interests to grant me a place (no - that would be about my and other peoples interests - and what is in that for her???)
i need not go there.
i'll lay a proper complaint of unprofessionalim on Monday...
I... really and truly don't anticipate that i would encounter anything of the kind in a medical interview.
which is what makes that interesting / viable for me.
unlike foundations.
unlike physiotherapy.
unlike personal training.unlike... insert whatever field you like where people are too busy pumping themselves up / pulling other people down to do their f*ck*ng job.
most of the world...
if a f*ck*ng horrible place. for real. i... i do not feel happy here yet.
Posted by europerep on February 8, 2014, at 15:04:28
In reply to Re: oops, i did it again, posted by alexandra_k on February 8, 2014, at 0:36:09
Hmmm, first of all, I saw and read this thread yesterday before going to bed, so I ended up having Britney Spears singing "oops I did it again" in my head for the first half of today, so thanks very much for that. ;)
Secondly, and more seriously... it's difficult for me to actually judge (or assess) the situations and interactions that you describe, simply because those other people don't make their case here.
But I think in this case here it all comes down to how much you need that program. If you don't really need it, then there's not really a problem. But if you do need it, then you shouldn't let her get between you and it. You know, fuck her, basically. Write her a letter explaining/apologizing/blahblah. I know, doing that would feel so wrong - it would be the same for me - but if you need that program, then you need it, you know? That's how I would look at it.
Posted by europerep on February 8, 2014, at 15:59:47
In reply to Re: oops, i did it again, posted by alexandra_k on February 8, 2014, at 0:36:09
On the other hand, if you do indeed not need the program, then yeah, go file a complaint.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 8, 2014, at 16:20:57
In reply to Re: oops, i did it again » alexandra_k, posted by europerep on February 8, 2014, at 15:59:47
i think i'd prefer there to be an inquiry into the selection process for the program. for them to see about whether decisions are made on the basis of objective criterion, or whether decisions are made on the basis of her whim. i'm suspecting the later. if it then turns out that she is incapable of professional conduct (e.g., refraining from asking inappropriate questions in interview setting, refraining from disclosing disability status to third parties, etc)... then they look into a suitable replacement.
she can't undo the damage she has done with informing third parties of my disability status.
i suspect they have similarly discussed it amongst themselves (the maths tutors in particular) with their doors similarly ajar and the gossip (that mature age chick who has been determined to learn math off that website has autisism hey!) has been circulated around the maths department.
i wouldn't be surprised to overhead a conversation about it someday at the staff club. not because i'm that important or anything, but because people are... well... i'm sure you know how people can be.
if other people (who aren't able to be as articulate as me) are spared pain / damage / harm because i speak out about this...
that's the aim, i guess.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 8, 2014, at 16:22:34
In reply to Re: oops, i did it again, posted by alexandra_k on February 8, 2014, at 16:20:57
and of course if someone who actually is capable of conducting themself professionally and appropriately gets a job out of it...
even better.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 8, 2014, at 16:43:41
In reply to Re: oops, i did it again, posted by alexandra_k on February 8, 2014, at 16:22:34
sigh.
though i suspect it isn't so much a case of that so much as it is a case of nobody else wanting the job. she gets off on having the students milling about and sucking up to her. she loves the attention... them emailing her all the time... them asking her advice... their... sucking up to her.
i don't suspect she sees it that way, of course.
and i think the other tutors do cringe a bit. they don't particularly want to be as bothered by these students. so if she is prepared to field things... good riddance. fairly sure that that is how they will see that. if she wants to get all over-involved in the selection process then let her.
it is more a case of their being... apathetic about the whole thing. nobody having the energy to prevent her harms... nobody wanting to wrest the power from her... nobody wanting the job...
but the students need to be protected from her harms.
she basically needs a slap on the wrist for disclosing disability status and to be sent on a course or something where she is taught what is and isn't appropriate to ask in interviews etc. taught about privacy / confidentiality. made to do a few boring reports on how she has altered her conduct. basically... enough of a deterrent for her to not do it again. for the gossipy fun to seem less... fun. and an example needs to be set. for the other tutors. so they don't do the whole talking about a student (not many answering to that description) with the door open deal, too...
HOW F*CK*NG DARE THEY
Posted by alexandra_k on February 8, 2014, at 16:52:21
In reply to Re: oops, i did it again, posted by alexandra_k on February 8, 2014, at 16:43:41
i need a few more weeks still to calm down.
given the lack of professionalism... and... a few things that happened... basically stuff where i am like 'didn't we just go through that' when the conversation really wasn't that hard...
it is better that i don't do the program.
i will figure out alternatives. there is a chemistry course that is basically equivalent (though i suppose it runs through stuff 2x as fast). and there is comparative animal biology which they reccommend as a sub. there is conceptual physics. mostly... it is just the math... getting that to a high enough level.
the math tutor gave me two (of 5) chapters for the first math for science course. one chapter / workbook every two weeks, apparently. i wonder... if i work through them myself... well... i wonder if i can get the other ones out of her, too, and work through them myself.
if the tutor was a uni professor (you know, a proper academic) i wouldn't have this sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach about broaching that...
the ones i have seem manageable. proportion / percentage and algebra. but the proof is of course in the pudding... she agreed it isn't about doing most of it... it is about really getting ALL of it... and it is still a big jump from there to proper first year uni maths...
sigh.
honestly... i think maths is one of those things that i'm better off doing shoved away in my room in my own time. where it is much quieter than libraries etc. where i can work at my own pace. i simply don't see how you can try and do such things with other people about (unless it is under test conditions). group instruction is... typically not where you need it to be. individual instruction is... when you are that close to me / pressuring me to 'get it' then my brain switches off and i can't even hear you properly.
i need to do this stuff at home. then make sure i do lots of practice tests in lecture theaters to mimic test conditions.
Posted by baseball55 on February 8, 2014, at 18:50:02
In reply to Re: oops, i did it again, posted by alexandra_k on February 8, 2014, at 16:52:21
It may be that the memorization kind of math - times tables, rules for long division, etc. - can be learned working at home by oneself. But, as things become more conceptual - algebra, problem solving, reducing fractions and so on - it helps to have some guidance and structure to one's study.
If not a tutor, are there remedial math classes you could take - where there was some structure and direction and opportunity to ask questions and watch someone skilled work out sample problems? (I don't use the term remedial to be insulting. In the US, anything below college algebra taken after high school is called remedial).
Most people, unless they have a natural affinity for math, do not learn higher-level math well on their own.
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