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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 114 to 138 of 138. Go back in thread:
Posted by Deneb on October 17, 2010, at 0:02:14
In reply to I feel lonely, posted by Deneb on October 10, 2010, at 17:49:42
I'm making a lot of progress on the career front. I've applied to some jobs and I've been doing my career counseling homework, but I get so anxious!
Just yesterday my heart raced for so long then I didn't sleep all night. I ended up sleeping all of today. I think I am very out of touch with my thoughts and anxiety. I don't even realize I'm anxious until my heart races and I start hyperventilating. Most of my symptoms seem to be more physical than psychological.
I just feel so fat right now. Pdoc thinks I use control over eaten to lessen my anxiety. Maybe she is right. I've been too afraid to weigh myself, but I think I regained some of my weight back. I feel very much like crash dieting right now. I know I need to focus on my career though, but I'm just so freaking anxious!
Posted by Angela2 on October 17, 2010, at 18:14:35
In reply to I'm so confused and scared, posted by Deneb on October 17, 2010, at 0:02:14
Deneb, have you talked to your pdoc about your symptoms? Or gone to a doctor?
Posted by Deneb on October 20, 2010, at 23:29:20
In reply to Re: I'm so confused and scared, posted by Angela2 on October 17, 2010, at 18:14:35
Oh yeah, pdoc knows about my anxiety. She thinks I need to expose myself to anxiety provoking situations so I can overcome them.
Posted by Deneb on October 24, 2010, at 5:28:48
In reply to Re: I'm so confused and scared » Angela2, posted by Deneb on October 20, 2010, at 23:29:20
I'm scared about finding a job and getting out in the "real world".
I've been overeating, a lot. I've gained 7 pounds.
I feel like avoiding everything. I kind of wish I could just develop anorexia and just die from it. At least I'd be thin and then I wouldn't have to deal with life. :-(
I'm such a fat pig though. I can't stop eating. I wish I could just stop eating.
I miss the control I had when I was losing weight.
I think I'm going to just try to stop eating, drink coffee and tea all day and just not eat.
I want to be thin so bad!
I'm sorry for posting this.
Posted by twinleaf on October 24, 2010, at 10:13:05
In reply to Re: I'm so confused and scared, posted by Deneb on October 24, 2010, at 5:28:48
Even though you posted, above, that you wouldn't develop an eating disorder because of the attention given to your posts about weight and eating, you don't know that for sure and we don't either. Could you avoid this topic altogether here, and take it up instead with pdoc.?
In an earlier post, you said that you did not believe in psychodynamic psychotherapy. I don't know what kind of therapy you have been having, but the most effective kind for BPD is a combination of psychodynamic therapy and DBT. Because it's a disorder of interpersonal emotional regulation , the relationship which you develop in therapy is crucial, The same is true of eating disorders; they can be triggered off by a need to at least control ONE thing during times of high stress, and intensive therapy is an important part of getting better. In both of these, medications ideally play a much less important role, with the eventual goal being to take little or none.
Babble has been wonderful for you in a number of ways, but it just isn;t able to take the place of individual therapy.
Posted by Deneb on October 24, 2010, at 17:19:07
In reply to Re: I'm so confused and scared » Deneb, posted by twinleaf on October 24, 2010, at 10:13:05
Look, I can't get psychodynamic therapy and DBT even if I wanted to. Pdoc told me there is no DBT here in Ottawa. There used to be one, but they got cancelled because of funding or something. Also I absolutely cannot afford to see a psychologist for psychodynamic therapy right now.
Pdoc is the only person I've got and she can only see me twice a month at the most. I used to see her every week, but then she told me she couldn't see me every week anymore. Sessions are about 30 mins and there is just enough time to tell her what happened during the two weeks. There is no real time to get into the nitty gritty. This is the best help I can get right now.
Online forums are the only place where I can get support. If I can't get it here on Babble, I go to the Pro-Ana sites. This is not a threat, it's just reality.
I find it helpful to write about my thoughts and feelings here on Babble. You can choose not to read them. I'm not going to stop unless what I write has been determined to be uncivil.
I just feel so lonely in this. Just writing my thoughts out so that someone out there on the WWW can see it helps me cope.
Posted by Glydin50 on October 24, 2010, at 20:39:11
In reply to Re: I'm so confused and scared » Deneb, posted by twinleaf on October 24, 2010, at 10:13:05
I hear ya... I think the road has run out on trying to help on this. Deneb, I wish you health and stability and I feel that's all left to post on this.
TL .... just as a heads up, I made TWO direct requests to Deneb about another behavior I felt was best (ie; healthier imo) to handle off site of these boards. I received a "Do not pressure" PBC. I don't want that to happen to you.
The road to h#ll CAN be paved w/ good intentions.... ; )
Posted by Glydin50 on October 24, 2010, at 21:15:16
In reply to Re: I'm so confused and scared » twinleaf, posted by Deneb on October 24, 2010, at 17:19:07
I hope I'm hearing you correctly also but just to check.. Do you want a blog area here? Are you interested in input from others or is your need more journaling.
I believe there is some confusion as to what you want- for yourself and from others - when you post.
Posted by Deneb on October 24, 2010, at 21:55:36
In reply to Re: I'm so confused and scared » Deneb, posted by Glydin50 on October 24, 2010, at 21:15:16
My need is more journalling to an audience. This is why starting up my own blog doesn't work, because I know there is hardly anyone reading it. Also I like the safety of the civility guidelines.
Posted by Deneb on October 25, 2010, at 0:11:27
In reply to Re: I'm so confused and scared » Glydin50, posted by Deneb on October 24, 2010, at 21:55:36
I failed again today. I ate 2 slices of pumpkin pie and some rice vermicelli noodle stir fry. Each slice of pie was probably over 500 kcal. I didn't drink any coffee at all. The pumpkin pie was entirely my fault. My Mom pushed the rice vermicelli on me. I feel disgusting.
No one can push any food on me! I don't have to eat anything I don't want to. I must understand that. I can control what goes into my body.
I will do better tomorrow.
I should remember to take my meds, especially the prozac, as it has appetite supressing properties. I don't know about the other meds though. I think they make you eat more, but I am stuck on them for now as I know I will get awful withdrawal if I don't take them.
I can't wait until I am really thin. I want to see a space between my thighs. I want to see my ribs and collar bones. I want to be so thin that a doctor can feel all my organs.
I hate my fat! I'm so disgusting! I can't stand it. I need to stop eating.
Posted by Glydin50 on October 25, 2010, at 5:57:56
In reply to Re: I'm so confused and scared » Glydin50, posted by Deneb on October 24, 2010, at 21:55:36
Thanks for clarifying what your goal is for this thread.
It might be important to note that other posters have voiced they have not a desire to worsen an unhealthy behavior. You have vetoed the idea that is possible. I have seen it time and time, that other's goals are to help via suggestions to move another towards healthy behaviors. When the goals of the poster are opposite, you may lose the audience that is part of your goal. That's just how it goes...
Posted by Deneb on October 25, 2010, at 16:56:32
In reply to Re: I'm so confused and scared » Deneb, posted by twinleaf on October 24, 2010, at 10:13:05
Hey Twinleaf,
I'm sorry I got angry and snapped at you. You're only trying to help. I'm going to try to focus on finding a job like my pdoc wants, instead of on trying to restrict unhealthily.
(((((Twinleaf))))) Sorry again. I just got angry, but I'm not angry anymore.
Deneb
Posted by twinleaf on October 25, 2010, at 17:30:32
In reply to Re: I'm so confused and scared » twinleaf, posted by Deneb on October 24, 2010, at 17:19:07
I think the *alone* feeling is one of the most difficult to bear, and Babble can certainly help with those feelings, if only because there are people here who have felt that way, too, and who can really empathize with you. And, as Bob says, the boards are here for whatever education and support they can provide. There are several threads going on now where, it seems to me, you are being provided with wonderful support. A number of Babblers are genuinely thrilled about your job prospects; I haven't written on that thread but I do share their feelings, and really look forward to hearing how things go.
The only reason there has been a difference of opinion on this thread is that NO-ONE WANTS TO CAUSE YOU HARM. We do hear a real cry for help from you in these posts, and we all want to provide support while making sure that we don't say anything that might make it more likely that you develop an ED. You don't have to agree with us, of course, but I do hope that you'll understand the reason for our concern.
If you prefer to use threads like this more as a "journal with audience", I certainly can accept that, even though I don't believe Bob envisioned that as one of the purposes of Babble. I think it is very important to Bob that posters interact with one another. As far as reading threads, if my support or new ideas are not wanted, I would not read them. Ocer time, as Glydin points out, the audience would disappear. This seems to recreate the painful aloneness all over again.
You are in a time of real change right now, with a lot of stress, but also a lot of great possibilies. . Seeing pdoc every two weeks for only 30 minutes must be very frustrating! Once you know about your employment, you'll be in a much better position to choose the kind of care you feel will help you the most. We can offer support and ideas- that you can count on- but, as Bob says, "psychobabble is not in itself psychotherapy."
Posted by twinleaf on October 25, 2010, at 17:44:45
In reply to I'm sorry for snapping at you TL, posted by Deneb on October 25, 2010, at 16:56:32
I think our posts must have crossed. Thank you = I appreciate your writing. It would certainly be better and easier for you if you had more frequent support IRL, and it probably made you feel more alone than ever when we got worried about some of your posts - like we were rejecting a real part of you. These really are the kinds of things that can be talked about safely with a therapist, but where the average well meaning person does not know what is most helpful to say.
Anyway, glad we got it cleared up, at least in part.
Posted by twinleaf on October 25, 2010, at 18:20:18
In reply to thank you Deneb, posted by twinleaf on October 25, 2010, at 17:44:45
And we did it without any PBCs, which might have irritated us even further. Now I feel that we are on more solid ground together, and that it will be easier for us to resolve our differences, should any arise in the future. If I had gotten a PBC or a block for "pressuring", I would have felt angry and unfairly treated. I would be so upset that my caring intentions were not recognized and there would not be anyone to work things out with. If Deneb had gotten one for sounding angry, she would just have felt even angrier and more misunderstood, with no-one to work things out with.
If someone is blocked, they have to sit, for periods as long as a year, without resolving their feelings. How much better to give everyone a chance to settle things in a quick and psychologically healthy way- a way that promotes growth.
Posted by Glydin50 on October 25, 2010, at 19:59:29
In reply to Hey! That was a 'Rupture and Repair!', posted by twinleaf on October 25, 2010, at 18:20:18
And was great... It does not work out that way as often as it would nice to.....
Posted by Deneb on October 25, 2010, at 23:39:51
In reply to I'm sorry for snapping at you TL, posted by Deneb on October 25, 2010, at 16:56:32
I was successful in skipping breakfast and lunch today, replacing the meals with coffee instead. By about 1:30 PM my stomach was growling. I didn't eat until I got home at around 5 and I ate too much when I got home. I had some lasagna, chicken, a glass of wine, pumpkin pie and sunflower seeds. So I kind of ate two meals for dinner, which defeats skipping meals in the first place. Still, it wasn't too bad. At least I didn't overeat. I probably ate a normal day's worth of calories.
I think I read somewhere that people who drink wine are thinner. I hope the wine makes me eat less.
I will continue to drink more coffee. I really think it helps curb my appetite.
Posted by Dinah on October 26, 2010, at 8:05:10
In reply to Trying to drink more coffee, posted by Deneb on October 25, 2010, at 23:39:51
I know I am an odd person to be offering advice on losing weight. But I have had some experience over the years. Skipping meals has never actually caused me to lose weight. If I wait to eat until my body considers itself starved, I tend to find myself a bottomless pit of hunger. Eating a normal amount of food after that is very difficult.
I've heard, and I believe, that grazing is a better way to lose weight. Having a supply of healthy low calorie foods on hand, and having several small meals a day, rather than one large one.
I even see it with my dogs. When they were free feeding, food wasn't so important to them. But I have two dogs with special food needs now and I'm feeding them twice a day. They'll gulp down as much food as I'll feed them, instead of letting their stomachs tell them naturally when they are full.
If your intention is to lose weight, I doubt fasting is the best way to go. If your intention is to distract yourself from real life concerns, the extremes may work. But it's also possible to find healthier ways to distract. Obsessions come in all sorts of forms. I've long since acknowledged that I *need* obsessions to self regulate my arousal. So I don't fight that. What I fight instead is to find the least unhealthy obsessions. So instead of internet shopping, I might try endless games of Bubbles, or research some topic that interests me.
Recognizing that you are using obsessions to help control your mood is the first step to a healthier and better life. Congratulations. The next step is using that knowledge to better your life.
You're starting to hang out with your real life friends. What obsession might help you better do that? Do you think they might be like Babblers, unlikely to be impressed by unhealthy behaviors?
Is fasting helping to meet needs other than obsessional distraction? The authorities are clear it's not the best route to a fit healthy body, and you've seen yourself that it doesn't work for weight loss on a steady basis. You may possibly receive attention from people who are concerned about you. I think you've said in the past that that sort of attention feels caring to you, moreso perhaps than other forms of attention. (I think I remember your saying that. Forgive me if I'm wrong.) But I think you might also find that insisting on an unhealthy lifestyle, be it drugs or alcohol abuse or excessive fasting, causes you to lose sources of support as well. And people show caring in many more ways than just concern. You might find that you like those forms of caring too.
Symptom substitution doesn't have to be a bad thing. I'm not asking you to give up the coping mechanism. But I think your life as well as your health might benefit from a better choice of obsession.
Just my opinion.
Posted by Dinah on October 26, 2010, at 9:03:40
In reply to Re: I'm so confused and scared » twinleaf, posted by Deneb on October 24, 2010, at 17:19:07
> Online forums are the only place where I can get support. If I can't get it here on Babble, I go to the Pro-Ana sites. This is not a threat, it's just reality.
Is it? It's a big internet, yet you perceive your only two choices to be Babble and Pro-Ana sites?
Sometimes "reality" for a person involves more than facts. Facts would seem to indicate that there are many places to get support online. Why did you eliminate all others? What, to you, makes it reality that there are only these two choices?
What about that hair site you used to go to? What about other mental health forums? I'm sure there are forums for people leaving college and entering the workplace.
What, to you, makes it reality that there are only these two choices? I'm not doubting that it is your reality. I'm only wondering what, aside from the facts, make it so.
You say it's not a threat, and again I believe you. But pragmatically speaking, what results are you likely to get from the statement? Do you think people will post to you more so that you don't go to the Pro-Ana sites? Has it been your experience that this expectation has been an accurate one?
How would you feel if I made a similar statement? How would you feel if I said that if you didn't loan me money, my only choice would be to go out to the casinos and gamble huge amounts of money? Would you accept my assessment of my choices as reality? Would you see other choices I might make? How would you feel about my making it sound as if you were responsible for my going to the casino? Would you think you were responsible?
There's nothing inherently wrong about saying what you believe is true. And if it's getting you the results you wish, then there's no need to examine it. But if it's not getting you the results you need, pragmatism would suggest that you consider what alternatives might meet your needs better.
Posted by Dinah on October 26, 2010, at 10:00:55
In reply to Re: I'm so confused and scared » twinleaf, posted by Deneb on October 24, 2010, at 17:19:07
Something just occurred to me...
It sounds as if you post on Pro-Ana sites. Do you encourage people there in their unhealthy behaviors? I think I'd feel really guilty if I posted to encourage people to do something that makes them unhealthy, or that might kill them. I'm not sure I'd feel that I was being very supportive of a person if I encouraged that behavior.
But that's me. It's just not something I could feel comfortable with myself. And perhaps I'm not understanding what sort of support is offered at a self labeled *Pro*-Ana site. It doesn't sound like something that a site who thought they were promoting healthy and positive behaviors would call themselves.
Posted by Deneb on October 26, 2010, at 17:37:33
In reply to Re: Trying to drink more coffee » Deneb, posted by Dinah on October 26, 2010, at 8:05:10
Sometimes I can stand the hunger. If I am used to it, I can stand it, but you're right. Skipping meals does usually lead to eating more later. I need to eat healthier low calorie foods.
>
> You're starting to hang out with your real life friends. What obsession might help you better do that? Do you think they might be like Babblers, unlikely to be impressed by unhealthy behaviors?Yeah, I guess so.
> Is fasting helping to meet needs other than obsessional distraction? The authorities are clear it's not the best route to a fit healthy body, and you've seen yourself that it doesn't work for weight loss on a steady basis. You may possibly receive attention from people who are concerned about you. I think you've said in the past that that sort of attention feels caring to you, moreso perhaps than other forms of attention. (I think I remember your saying that. Forgive me if I'm wrong.) But I think you might also find that insisting on an unhealthy lifestyle, be it drugs or alcohol abuse or excessive fasting, causes you to lose sources of support as well. And people show caring in many more ways than just concern. You might find that you like those forms of caring too.
I know pdoc gets concerned about me even when I'm not deathly thin. I was still really fat and she was concerned when I was lossing a lot of weight. I don't want my parents to show concern for me though. I hate it when they show concern. I turn hostile and angry towards them, especially my Mom. That's why I hide everything from them.
I'm not fasting anymore right now. I eat too much. I'm hoping I can fast, but it's not working.
Posted by Deneb on October 26, 2010, at 17:46:56
In reply to Re: I'm so confused and scared, posted by Dinah on October 26, 2010, at 10:00:55
On the pro-ana sites, support is different. In the forum I go to, people tell normal healthy people who are just wanting to lose some weight to go away and just eat healthily because eating disorders make life a living hell and they don't want normal people to pick it up.
I'm not normal though. I may have had bulimia in the past and sometimes it's EDNOS.
I don't support people who are dangerously underweight. It is amazing what people will say to someone who is dangerously underweight.
One time a girl wrote a post about being distraught her doctors were going to weigh her and if she lost more weight they were going to put her in the hospital. A lot of other girls gave her tips on how she can trick the doctors, like putting metal magnets for weight in her bra and underwear, eating a lot of salt and drinking a lot of water.
I personally think saying that to someone who is dangerously underweight is horrible. I don't support that type of thing.
I usually just post what I post on Babble, my struggles with trying to fast and about how fat and disgusting I am.
Posted by Deneb on October 30, 2010, at 17:13:54
In reply to Re: I'm so confused and scared » Dinah, posted by Deneb on October 26, 2010, at 17:46:56
Starting today I am back to losing weight. I have to lose a lot of weight for Hawaii. I don't want Dr. Bob to see what a fat *ss I am. I was so fat in New Orleans. I was the fatest I've ever been. I want to lose 40 pounds. I seriously have a LOT of fat. Even my knees are fat.
I want him to say, "Wow! You look terrific. You lost so much weight"!
I'm not going to get obsessive about food though. I've decided I won't count calories at all. I have to learn to live without being obsessed with calories. I'm just going to drink a lot more decaf coffee and tea. When I'm hungry I'll drink some decaf or tea.
Don't worry, I will eat actual food too. I'm just going to eat a lot less. I know I can't survive on just coffee and tea.
I hope to lose weight slowly and healthily.
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 5, 2010, at 19:03:15
In reply to Re: I'm so confused and scared » Deneb, posted by twinleaf on October 25, 2010, at 17:30:32
> as Bob says, the boards are here for whatever education and support they can provide.
>
> If you prefer to use threads like this more as a "journal with audience", I certainly can accept that, even though I don't believe Bob envisioned that as one of the purposes of Babble. I think it is very important to Bob that posters interact with one another.Right, the boards are here for whatever education and support they can provide. Which could include journalling to an audience. Which I'd see as a type of interaction. More interaction isn't necessarily better.
Bob
Posted by Deneb on November 20, 2010, at 22:39:19
In reply to Re: education and support, posted by Dr. Bob on November 5, 2010, at 19:03:15
With the stress of the job hunt, my meltdown and not my new job, I've gained weight again. I'm way fat again. I can't stand myself.
I eat when I am stressed out. I've been eating fast food almost everyday before work. I estimate I've been eating close to 3000 kcal everyday for weeks now. I haven't been counting my calories, but I calculated that just one of my meals was about 1000 kcal.
I need to stop eating so much. Tomorrow is my day off finally. I work 6 days a week now. I'll go grocery shopping and buy healthy food for the week.
I'm going to lose this weight.
I know this is bad, but I wish I were anorexic. In my mind that is better than being fat.
This is the end of the thread.
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