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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 9 to 33 of 33. Go back in thread:
Posted by Phillipa on February 2, 2009, at 19:44:52
In reply to Existentialism 101 » Phillipa, posted by Sigismund on February 2, 2009, at 1:18:25
Sigi so it's casket time? What color or type of wood should I choose of course in your opinion. Love PJ
Posted by Kath on February 3, 2009, at 8:50:14
In reply to Existentialism 101 » Phillipa, posted by Sigismund on February 2, 2009, at 1:18:25
Hi Sig,
I think you should write a book!!
I mean it! ((((((((((((you)))))))))))
Kath
Only thing is - I have NO idea what the title would be....maybe Oh The Irony of Life as Seen by a Fairly Wise Man.
xoxo Kath
Posted by Kath on February 3, 2009, at 9:01:25
In reply to Meaning of Disclored Nails and Ridges ????, posted by Phillipa on February 1, 2009, at 0:14:49
I wonder how healthy it is to put nail polish & particularly remover on our nails? I wouldn't be able to.
They both smell very strong & we do absorb things through our skin.
But maybe I'm more concerned about these types of things because I get affected by fumes of various sorts & with my daughter having MCS I'm aware of how severe reactions to chemicals, etc can be.
Kath
PS - my 'take' on it is that I'm exposed to a lot of stuff (even in air pollution) that I have no control over. I try to minimize the exposure that I have control over, hence unscented products, good old-fashioned home cleaning products such as vinegar & baking soda, or non-toxic ones that are now available in natural food stores & lots of grocery stores. Simmering cinnamon sticks in a pot of water if I want my home to 'smell nice' instead of using chemical plug-ins & 'sanitizers' etc.
Anyone else do this type of stuff?
K
Posted by Phillipa on February 3, 2009, at 20:41:07
In reply to Minimizing exposure to toxic stuff, posted by Kath on February 3, 2009, at 9:01:25
Well since can't smell I use no smelly things and have to use natural unscented detergent, soap, moisturizer, fabric sofener and got that natural cleaning product. I am not sure but since the nails are dead I'm not sure you absorb them. But Sigi A book would be great The Tradgedies Of Life As We Know It as a title???? Love Phillipa
Posted by Sigismund on February 4, 2009, at 1:55:54
In reply to Re: Existentialism 101 » Sigismund, posted by Phillipa on February 2, 2009, at 19:44:52
>What color or type of wood should I choose of course in your opinion.
OK, PJ, here is the correct line.
First and foremost avoid the funeral industry and compose your will so as to avoid increasing their income, and preferably arrange to be buried wrapped in a cloth, but if it has to be a box, it should be made of cardboard.
Avoid burial grounds.
If you must have a verse on your grave how about
'It will come:
Humanity perforce will prey on itself
Like monsters of the deep'
(if you like King Lear)
but there is something to be said for the old one
'I told you I was ill'
or, alternatively
'Don't try'.
Posted by seldomseen on February 4, 2009, at 10:16:18
In reply to Re: Existentialism 101 » Phillipa, posted by Sigismund on February 4, 2009, at 1:55:54
Upon my death, I'm confident that on my marker I shall have something like this quote (I don't know who said it, but I'm sure they are very wise):
"when we finally know we are dying, and all other sentient beings are dying with us, we start to have a burning, almost heartbreaking sense of the fragility and preciousness of each moment and each being, and from this can grow a deep, clear, limitless compassion for all beings."
Yes, it will have to be a large marker because it will also have to contain the next line
"or something like that, I forget just what exactly, oh well, whatever, blah blah blah."
Seldom.
Posted by JadeKelly on February 4, 2009, at 22:40:10
In reply to Re: Existentialism 101 » Sigismund, posted by seldomseen on February 4, 2009, at 10:16:18
> Upon my death, I'm confident that on my marker I shall have something like this quote (I don't know who said it, but I'm sure they are very wise):
>
> "when we finally know we are dying, and all other sentient beings are dying with us, we start to have a burning, almost heartbreaking sense of the fragility and preciousness of each moment and each being, and from this can grow a deep, clear, limitless compassion for all beings."
>
> Yes, it will have to be a large marker because it will also have to contain the next line
>
> "or something like that, I forget just what exactly, oh well, whatever, blah blah blah."
>
> Seldom.THANK YOU for that. Now I don't have to go open a vein (excuse the expression but my brothers use it all the time, it seemed fitting, haha.)
~Jade
Posted by 10derHeart on February 5, 2009, at 23:23:09
In reply to Re: Existentialism 101 » seldomseen, posted by JadeKelly on February 4, 2009, at 22:40:10
Posted by Deputy 10derHeart on February 5, 2009, at 23:23:27
In reply to Re: Existentialism 101 » seldomseen, posted by JadeKelly on February 4, 2009, at 22:40:10
>Now I don't have to go open a vein (excuse the expression but my brothers use it all the time, it seemed fitting, haha.)
Hello Jade,
I need to remind you to please follow site guidelines by not posting in a way that treats death lightly.
I'd also like to add that it is fine to post - carefully - about suicide here, as long as it's not done jokingly or in any way that trivializes it. The idea is to be sensitive to the feelings of others, such as survivors of suicide, posters who may be family or friends of the same, and of course, posters who have lost a loved one to death by suicide. I know for a fact there are, or have been, Babblers who fall into one or more of these categories.
Also, in the future, if you do post specific images as you did here, it's good to put a **trigger** warning in your subject line. This may not have come up recently - since you've been here, so I wanted to point it out. This is NOT something from the FAQ and isn't something administration enforces. This is a community custom that can help protect sensitive and easily triggered posters who would rather not suddenly come across graphic descriptions of certain topics. Examples would be things such as suicide methods, CSA, rape, physical abuse, etc. We can't possibly know everything that could trigger everyone, but those are some of the more common topics about which posters have asked for warnings. (You can see I did this in this post, and also separately to alert posters to the 'trigger' in yours.)
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternate ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow ups regarding these issues should be directed to Admin, and should of course, be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions, and he may choose a different action.
--10derHeart, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by JadeKelly on February 5, 2009, at 23:39:04
In reply to **multiple triggers**/Please be sensitive » JadeKelly, posted by Deputy 10derHeart on February 5, 2009, at 23:23:27
Oops. Sorry, no I didn't know about the trigger warning. If something needs a trigger is it better left unsaid? Its the poster who uses the trigger correct? What about when I come across someone with suicide in their subject line? Thats happened to me 3 times, and I hit the notify button but Admin doesnt respond. Would the trigger signal be better?
Now I'm confused. Is the trigger used for your own post to warn it may be offensive? Or do you post it when you come across anothers post that may be offensive or insensitive?
Either way I apoligize for the "saying" and hope I didn't offend anyone. It was thoughtless of me considering where I am and I will try to be more careful.
Sincerely,
Jade
Posted by JadeKelly on February 5, 2009, at 23:49:15
In reply to Re: **multiple triggers**/Please be sensitive » Deputy 10derHeart, posted by JadeKelly on February 5, 2009, at 23:39:04
ps-why did you put muliple triggers? What is that referring too? Just want to make sure I understand.
Thanks,
~Jade
Posted by garnet71 on February 5, 2009, at 23:51:43
In reply to Re: 10derheart, posted by JadeKelly on February 5, 2009, at 23:49:15
Hi Jade. Garnet here. Where's amethyst, diamond, topaz, and peridot?
Posted by JadeKelly on February 6, 2009, at 0:05:10
In reply to Re: 10derheart » JadeKelly, posted by garnet71 on February 5, 2009, at 23:51:43
> Hi Jade. Garnet here. Where's amethyst, diamond, topaz, and peridot?
They've run off and left us just when we needed them most.
What're you up to?
~Jade
Posted by JadeKelly on February 6, 2009, at 0:06:57
In reply to Re: 10derheart, posted by JadeKelly on February 6, 2009, at 0:05:10
Posted by zenhussy on February 6, 2009, at 2:52:29
In reply to Re: **multiple triggers**/Please be sensitive » Deputy 10derHeart, posted by JadeKelly on February 5, 2009, at 23:39:04
ah the trigger discussion. in case any clarification is needed this thread from the past may or may not shed some light as to how this site has handled trigger warnings and what constitutes a trigger "as defined by the owner and operator of this site and the interpretations made by his deputies enforcing his guidelines from the mighty FAQ."
412 post thread about triggers and PB:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060225/msgs/614568.htmlhth
Posted by Deputy 10derHeart on February 6, 2009, at 14:48:26
In reply to Re: **multiple triggers**/Please be sensitive » Deputy 10derHeart, posted by JadeKelly on February 5, 2009, at 23:39:04
> If something needs a trigger is it better left unsaid?
No, not at all. I think that would restrict so much what posters need to talk about here. Dr. Bob doesn't want that.
>Its the poster who uses the trigger correct?
?? There isn't any right or wrong. It's a courtesy. Me - I usually err on the side of caution and if I even imagine, possibly, maybe, that my choice of words, or the whole subject, can upset others just by it's topic - I'll use it.
>What about when I come across someone with suicide in their subject line?
Well, that's a bit of a different, though related issue, I think. Letting admin know or emailing a link to Dr. Bob is good, although clearly a slow method. Not much more you can do unless you feel comfortable and choose to talk to the poster yourself. Very difficult situations for all involved, and I don't have anything close to "perfect" advice.
>Thats happened to me 3 times, and I hit the notify button but Admin doesnt respond.
I am only aware of one time, but that could be my memory. Generally, if the thread goes on and the poster who wrote about suicidal thoughts, plans etc. participates, we don't respond as I guess maybe we figure participation in the thread IS the answer. But that's a good thought - we could try to Babblemail back even when there is an active thread. If the poster doesn't post any more and Dr. Bob gets personally involved, we DO try to post something to the community ASAP - whatever Dr. Bob says is okay to say.
>Would the trigger signal be better?
No. Two different things.
> Now I'm confused. Is the trigger used for your own post to warn it may be offensive?
No, not offensive. Topics that potentially upset others aren't inherently offensive. You can use it when you think to yourself that reading what you are about to post is commonly sensitive (e.g. - suicide, self-injury, child abuse of ANY kind, etc.) to some people, and maybe they'd like a red flag so they get the choice to read or avoid.
>Or do you post it when you come across anothers post that may be offensive or insensitive?
Yes, Babblers so sometimes post a (nm) post, like I've done with yours, when they are concerned about others being triggered. It's meant to be helpful. But not because the post is "offensive or insensitive," in the sense of uncivil, but in the way I've described above. For example, once I read a post on Relationships about domestic abuse, where the poster graphically described what her abuser did to her. This was extremely difficult for me to read as I am a survivor of a relationship that included battering. I posted underneath, "domestic abuse triggers above, " or something like that. I thought if it was that upsetting to me, others might choose to not read it.
> Either way I apoligize for the "saying" and hope I didn't offend anyone. It was thoughtless of me considering where I am and I will try to be more careful.
Thank you.
Posted by Deputy 10derHeart on February 6, 2009, at 14:53:21
In reply to Re: 10derheart, posted by JadeKelly on February 5, 2009, at 23:49:15
Probably because I was being overly cautious. I was thinking I'd mentioned in explanation to you, all sorts of abuse, etc. and maybe some just don't want to even read a "list" of things like that. I've been told in the past use of the word 'rape' is too triggering for some people - so I was being careful.
Better safe than sorry? In case there are readers who just don't want to encounter even a mention of any of these sensitive topics?
Posted by Sigismund on February 6, 2009, at 19:42:53
In reply to some light reading » JadeKelly, posted by zenhussy on February 6, 2009, at 2:52:29
>412 post thread about triggers and PB:
Oh my goodness.
That's kind of over-egging the sauce, isn't it?
Posted by garnet71 on February 6, 2009, at 21:48:51
In reply to **mutiple triggers** - being cautious » JadeKelly, posted by Deputy 10derHeart on February 6, 2009, at 14:53:21
Can we exercise some common sense here? When one writes a post titled "Suicidal" - is it really necessary to subsequently write "WARNING - TRIGGERING POST ABOVE"??? Doesn't the word "suicidal" speak for itself?
If anything, it devalues the urgency of the situation and adds unneeded drama.
?
I am just trying to help. Being caught up with ifs, ands, or buts can really take away the healing nature of a mental health forum. People don't need to be feeling they are walking on egg shells when expressing their most intimate thoughts. We all know this is a mental health forum that contains painful experiences of others. People will signify the world 'trigger' with common sense, that's agreed, but the rapport of the board will never be at 100% equilibrium.
With all due respect.
Posted by Phillipa on February 7, 2009, at 0:04:16
In reply to Re: **mutiple triggers** - being cautious, posted by garnet71 on February 6, 2009, at 21:48:51
Garnet seriously there are people who have family members, friends who did indeed hurt themselves or were abused it's for them that the triggers are added. Some in all seriousness would be extremely upset to read those threads. it's a warning to them not to read. Does this help? Not a criticism just trying to help. Love Phillipa
Posted by Larry Hoover on February 7, 2009, at 9:43:49
In reply to Re: **mutiple triggers** - being cautious, posted by garnet71 on February 6, 2009, at 21:48:51
> Can we exercise some common sense here? When one writes a post titled "Suicidal" - is it really necessary to subsequently write "WARNING - TRIGGERING POST ABOVE"??? Doesn't the word "suicidal" speak for itself?
>
> If anything, it devalues the urgency of the situation and adds unneeded drama.
>
> ?Yes, a trigger warning may still be appropriate.
One can speak of e.g. suicidal thoughts in an abstract or non-specific manner. One can ask for help without providing any details at all. In contrast, discussions of methods or cirumstances or consequences or whatever, by their capacity to induce imagery or emotion can bring about profound physiological/psychotraumatic responses. The response is involuntary.
The trigger warning gives more appropriate warning than a less concise subject line offers. As a person subject to a number of triggering stimuli, I can say that being surprised by content leaves me totally vulnerable to that involuntary reaction. In contrast, with foreknowledge via a trigger notation, I can adopt a protective state of mind that will later allow me to read what might have been a triggering message without suffering that huge response. In exercising that choice, I account for my own resiliency at that moment, my internal cognitions, my willingness to enter a risky situation, and so on. I choose. And I am able to choose because I have been afforded an opportunity to make the choice. And most important for me, when I can exercise that choice for myself, I believe I can reduce my future sensitivity to triggering stimuli.
So, "suicidal" in a subject line may or may not speak for itself. In this case, the determination is in a gray area. Other situations are far less gray. The trigger warning tends towards black and white, and I appreciate all who consider that issue, to diminish the element of surprise.
Lar
Posted by garnet71 on February 7, 2009, at 11:41:16
In reply to Re: **mutiple triggers** - being cautious » garnet71, posted by Larry Hoover on February 7, 2009, at 9:43:49
Okay, Larry, I get it. I didn't think that one through, happens all the time.lol
I used to belong to an abuse survivor forum where many of us had been in relationships with those where sex addiction is a commonly manifested trait.
We were told we could not discuss sexual experiences in case young people would find the forum.
I'm thinking - people there were describing horrific abuse and grieving,and supporting,and venting. People would be descriptive about the physical abuse, and that was ok, but to talk about sexual abuse, that was prohibited. It just seemed that on an abuse recovery forum, one would expect stories of abuse, and if teens found the information..well I can think of much worse context for teens to discover sexual details on the internet. To discuss such things on a support forum is healthy-again, context.
So i was probably thinking more in line with common sense, not triggers. But yes, I can see where more graphic content, etc., could be more triggering than speaking along general terms. Context does count.
At the same time, this is forum where many come with diverse mental health issues, and such things should be expected-rather than unexpected-from all who visit.
At any rate, I'll stick to the trigger advice.
Posted by garnet71 on February 7, 2009, at 11:56:57
In reply to Re: **mutiple triggers** - being cautious » garnet71, posted by Larry Hoover on February 7, 2009, at 9:43:49
Afterthought:
Could the phrase "WARNING-TRIGGER" make a person who is susceptible to such triggers more likely to read the post?
Not for the sake of argument..just thinking...
Posted by Kath on February 7, 2009, at 21:08:32
In reply to Re: **mutiple triggers** - being cautious » Larry Hoover, posted by garnet71 on February 7, 2009, at 11:56:57
My concept of the *****trigger***** notices in the Subject line is that they can help prevent a situation where someone opens a post without having any idea that it contains a subject that is a trigger for them & the content is a shock & triggers them. In that case, they would simply have had NO warning & as a result could read something that upsets them very much.
If there's a ***trigger*** notation, a person can make a conscious decision whether to open the post or not.
Some of us used to joke around a bit & say things like ****silliness trigger**** or stuff like that. We didn't mean any harm - just sort of fooling around. Fortunately someone pointed out that it wasn't funny at all!!!
I think it's better to err on the side of caution. Most of us probably have enough stuff that bothers us in life that we can't do anything about. At least if there's a trigger sign, we have the option of saying, "Nope; I think I'll just skip reading that post, just in case."
:-))) hugs, Kath
Posted by JadeKelly on February 8, 2009, at 1:41:28
In reply to Re: **mutiple triggers** - being cautious » garnet71, posted by Larry Hoover on February 7, 2009, at 9:43:49
>
> Yes, a trigger warning may still be appropriate.
>
> One can speak of e.g. suicidal thoughts in an abstract or non-specific manner. One can ask for help without providing any details at all. In contrast, discussions of methods or cirumstances or consequences or whatever, by their capacity to induce imagery or emotion can bring about profound physiological/psychotraumatic responses. The response is involuntary.
>
> The trigger warning gives more appropriate warning than a less concise subject line offers. As a person subject to a number of triggering stimuli, I can say that being surprised by content leaves me totally vulnerable to that involuntary reaction. In contrast, with foreknowledge via a trigger notation, I can adopt a protective state of mind that will later allow me to read what might have been a triggering message without suffering that huge response. In exercising that choice, I account for my own resiliency at that moment, my internal cognitions, my willingness to enter a risky situation, and so on. I choose. And I am able to choose because I have been afforded an opportunity to make the choice. And most important for me, when I can exercise that choice for myself, I believe I can reduce my future sensitivity to triggering stimuli.
>
> So, "suicidal" in a subject line may or may not speak for itself. In this case, the determination is in a gray area. Other situations are far less gray. The trigger warning tends towards black and white, and I appreciate all who consider that issue, to diminish the element of surprise.
>
> LarLarry,
I think your post covers this subject very well. It is quite easy to post the word trigger, and could save unecessary emotional trauma for someone else.
If someone posts SUICIDE as their subject line on a board, I have come across this 3 times, they are not going to post **trigger**. They are not thinking about anything other than I need to talk-NOW.
I haven't yet run across this but I'm sure there are people who think about suicide but simply want to talk about it, I geuss trigger along with that subject line would be appropriate.
This has been very enlightening to me in that every day joking even can be devasting for someone else to run across. Not to mention the description of real traumas experienced by real people.
In addition, simple jokes, sayings, etc. maybe rethought when a poster realizes he/she needs to add trigger to his/her post.
While there is the point that this is a "psych" forum, all the more reason to be careful as there are fragile people here and they need to feel safe.
Thank you for your insight, I have learned a lot from this dialogue.
~Jade
This is the end of the thread.
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