![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 26. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Quintal on August 4, 2008, at 14:56:06
And a father by proxy. It has finally come. My friend came round last Saturday and popped the question over a bottle of wine. She split up with her long term boyfirend a few months ago, and at 28 thinks her chances of meeting Mr. Right and having a the family of her dreams has passed her by. I think she's being overly pessimistic. She's a very attractive girl, bright, good career, everything going for her, but I suspect the underlying problem here is that she doesn't really want to share her life with a man.
So she wants the turkey baster treatment from me instead. Her friends suggested she try a one night stand with a random man if all else fails, but she thought of me instead. I'm not sure how we'd actually go about it, getting down to the nitty-gritty of it. I think a syringe might be more appropriate, but maybe there are special devices you can buy off the internet for this kind of thing? I think I'd be very ashamed to hand her evidence that my body actually produces this kind of sexual fluid, but I've lived through more excruciating medical examinatins than that. Which raises the question of whether either of us is actually fertile. I've volunteered to buy one of those twin male/female home fertility testing kits. She says she couldn't bear it if she were to get a negative result right now, so I will have to take the first step alone. I have a feeling my sperm quality might be rather low, and that would be dissapointing for both of us. I don't think either of us could stand the humiliation if we had to repeat the process every month for years.
Then there's the matter of custody. She's afraid I might try and win custody of them. I don't see how I possibly could given all the circumstances, or why I would want to take them off their mother - I'm sure she'd do a perfectly good job, but what I think she means is "I don't want you to have any input or control over their lives", and I would find that hard to live with. She suggested I have them on weekends, and I'd be okay with that. So many parents live apart these days anyway, but I think it boils down to who wears the trousers in the relationship and it's clearly going to be her.
The hardest thing would be telling our families. They're fairly traditionalist, or at least her parents are, and it would be 'awkard' to say the least. She isn't very good at resisting authroity, so I think this might be something that leads her to back out at last minute. She does want children very badly though. I don't suppose many people have gone through this themselves, but any thoughts/ideas of how best to go about the whole process would be welcome. I suppose I'm very confused with my feelings over this now that it's out in the open and actually happening.
Q
Posted by chicklet on August 4, 2008, at 17:37:41
In reply to Being a sperm donor, posted by Quintal on August 4, 2008, at 14:56:06
Hmmm, Quintal. That's a lot to think about, and I lot of pressure on you! I guess I would wonder how close of a friend she is. What concerns me is what you said about her not wanting you to have "control of their lives". If you're not absolutely ok with that, then I think this might not be the best idea. Do you live in close proximity? I don't know if you have any other kids from a prior relationship, but from what i hear, so much changes once you actually *meet* "your" baby. Your feelings might change- you might want to see them more...it could be messy. Unless there is a *real* plan for how the baby would be brought up, I'd be scared to do it. If I were a woman asking that of a friend I would be absolutely certain that all of that is ironed out before I went ahead with it. Otherwise, if I weren't willing to honor your requests re: seeing the kids, I would not ask you. It's just not respecting you. So i guess I'm less concerned with the logistics (which I know some things about too) than with the emotional aspect of it all. If she feels like she really wants to do this (regardless of what we think about only being 28 and being pessimistic...it's hard to change the mind of a woman that wants a baby)-
>>>Her friends suggested she try a one night stand with a random man if all else fails, but she thought of me instead.
Well I guess it means she'd like the baby to have your awesome genes which is nice! But again, i think it's gonna be hard to make a plan. It's kinda like she wants *you* to be anonymous. I'm being as clear as muddy watta. I know.
How close are the two of you?
Not close enough that you'd ever actually have sex?
>>>>Which raises the question of whether either of us is actually fertile. I've volunteered to buy one of those twin male/female home fertility testing kits.Does that test sperm count and all that? You'd get a better idea to get it done in a lab. Yeah, talk to my husband about how embarrassing that is! :O
>>>> She says she couldn't bear it if she were to get a negative result right now, so I will have to take the first step alone.
I don't like that mindset, ya know? I'm sorry if I'm sounding judgmental...well maybe I'm *being* judgmental. If she wants to do this, then she needs to find out and take some action. If finding out that she has a fertility problem is too much for her to handle, then that's not really a good way to start this whole thing. (and there's no reason to suspect that she even does...)You should not be expected to be "taking the first step alone"...I just don't think that's fair. She's the one that wants your troups, she needs to have a plan and make this easy (er?) for you.
>>> I have a feeling my sperm quality might be rather low, and that would be dissapointing for both of us.
Why do you think that? You don't have to answer...
>>>>I don't think either of us could stand the humiliation if we had to repeat the process every month for years.
Wellll, I think it's wise to start out knowing what you're dealing with. Health wise, I mean.
Can you tell I've been through infertility? :D
I'm your chick if you have any fertility questions at all...I'm just worried about the whole custody/emotional side of things...If you'd find it hard to live with to know that you have a son or daughter, and don't have the kind of contact with them that you would desire, I think that's a biggie. Plus you won't be married so there's all that legal stuff.
>>>> Then there's the matter of custody. She's afraid I might try and win custody of them.
Do you think she trusts you??
>>>She isn't very good at resisting authroity, so I think this might be something that leads her to back out at last minute.
Idk, Quintal- sounds like maybe she needs to get her thoughts together and have a good solid plan. If she doesn't, then I don't know how well you would fare.
>>>>suppose I'm very confused with my feelings over this now that it's out in the open and actually happening.
Yeah, I'd say confusion is normal!
Whew, I'm exhausted just thinking about it.
This is a real toughie
~Karen
Posted by Phillipa on August 5, 2008, at 0:39:24
In reply to Re: Being a sperm donor, posted by chicklet on August 4, 2008, at 17:37:41
Q I'd advise she seek guidance from a therapist too first. And you have had problems and it would create a lot of stress for you in my opinion only. you really need to get some guidance. Love Phillipa
Posted by Phil on August 5, 2008, at 11:02:07
In reply to Being a sperm donor, posted by Quintal on August 4, 2008, at 14:56:06
I'd pull out of that deal.....so to speak.
Posted by fayeroe on August 5, 2008, at 12:20:29
In reply to Re: Being a sperm donor » Quintal, posted by Phil on August 5, 2008, at 11:02:07
> I'd pull out of that deal.....so to speak.
I agree with Phil 100%.
1. She doesn't sound very stable to me.
2. Your rights are already being violated before the "act".
3. A huge concern of mine would be her changing her mind after the "deal is done" and how you might feel about that.
4. An anonymous donor from a sperm bank could be the best option for your friend.
Take care, Pat
Posted by Poet on August 5, 2008, at 12:39:59
In reply to Being a sperm donor, posted by Quintal on August 4, 2008, at 14:56:06
Hi Phil,
I think the two of you need to have a serious talk about all aspects of this. That she is already worried that you will ask for custody is a big issue. If you're listed as the father on the birth certificate you can go to Court and ask for custody. On the other hand she can ask you to pay child support.
Talk it out with her before you get that turkey baster.
Good luck.
Poet
Posted by chicklet on August 5, 2008, at 13:03:12
In reply to Re: Being a sperm donor » Quintal, posted by Phil on August 5, 2008, at 11:02:07
Posted by Quintal on August 5, 2008, at 13:58:20
In reply to Re: Being a sperm donor, posted by chicklet on August 4, 2008, at 17:37:41
>Hmmm, Quintal. That's a lot to think about, and I lot of pressure on you! I guess I would wonder how close of a friend she is.
I think that's the thing. She's known me since I was born, my mother thought she was going to be childless before I was born and sort of played 'second mother' to her. We were almost next door neighbours for all of our childhood, only two doors apart. I'd say we were pretty much sister and brother. We've gone very different directions in how we live our lives though, and that might be the crux of it - she wouldn't really welcome my influence.
>Do you live in close proximity?
She lives in the city about 30 miles away. I live in the country, so we are quite far apart, but not too far to make weekend trips. I suppose it's just the kind of distance that she wants, but just a little too far apart for me.
>I don't know if you have any other kids from a prior relationship, but from what i hear, so much changes once you actually *meet* "your" baby. Your feelings might change- you might want to see them more...it could be messy.
That's the other thing. I'm gay, so this would be the only way for me to have natural children, barring something even more weird than this arrangement. She did volunteer of doing it as a selfless act so that I could become a father anyway. Yes, I think it could easily get very messy, even more so for the children than us.
>Unless there is a *real* plan for how the baby would be brought up, I'd be scared to do it.
We talked of this as being more of a long-term plan, like when she's 35. She did say she would like one now, but I don't think I'd agree to that. So we have time to talk. She isn't normally one for rushing into things though.
>Well I guess it means she'd like the baby to have your awesome genes which is nice!
As Phillipa hinted, I have had a lot of mental health problems and they do run in both our families. I'd say if these conditions really are genetic then the odds of one of them being born with bipolar, autism or some kind of mental retardation are fairly high. I've already considered what I'd do if that happened and I wouldn't walk away from one of my children if they had a disability of some kind. I don't know whether she's considered what she would about this though, or what she'd expect of me. Probably more than if it turned out healthy I suspect.
>How close are the two of you?
That's hard to answer. We've grown apart so that we're almost completely opposite people. We still have that childhood connection though, so we can both see the people we used to be.
>Not close enough that you'd ever actually have sex?
I think it might feel almost incestuous even if I were straight. I can't really imagine dong it, but I think she secretly hopes I'm not really gay and will 'do the deed' in person.
>Does that test sperm count and all that? You'd get a better idea to get it done in a lab. Yeah, talk to my husband about how embarrassing that is! :O
It sounds fairly reliable, but you never know. http://www.accessdiagnostics.co.uk/acatalog/MALE_FERTILITY_TESTS.html
>Why do you think that? You don't have to answer...
It just seems too lumpy, like bits of egg white in a clear fluid. It seems to turn runny too quiclky. Maybe I just haven't seen enough of other men's sperm to know if it's normal?
>Do you think she trusts you??
No, it doesn't sound like it. I think I understand her concerns about having a baby taken away from her, but I don't think she understands how unrealistic this is.
Thanks for your input, it's much appreciated.
Q
Posted by chicklet on August 5, 2008, at 16:16:51
In reply to Re: Being a sperm donor » chicklet, posted by Quintal on August 5, 2008, at 13:58:20
>>> As Phillipa hinted, I have had a lot of mental health problems and they do run in both our families.
Oh Q, that was such an a**y thing for me to say, considering what kind of message board this is!
I've struggled with the genetics question too. I'm bipolar.
I can't believe I said that. I'm sorry.Well I can tell there's a whole lotta good in you too. :D
Posted by Quintal on August 5, 2008, at 17:12:30
In reply to Re: Being a sperm donor, posted by chicklet on August 5, 2008, at 16:16:51
No, not at all I think you were being nice! Sorry, I seem to make people feel put down no matter what I'm saying. I don't know whether to believe it's genetic or not either. Maybe it would be better with me out of the picture? This might not come off anyway - she could meet Mr. Right at any time and have the family life she wants, and I hope she does.
Q
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 5, 2008, at 17:30:57
In reply to Being a sperm donor, posted by Quintal on August 4, 2008, at 14:56:06
I think your biggest consideration should be legal, honestly. Genes are not destiny, but support payments might be in yours. There are some rights and obligations that cannot be cancelled by contract, and your duty as an identified father might be raised in a court of law, even if only in some distant future. Circumstances change, but paternity does not. Only a lawyer can tell you what your legal obligations might be.....it varies considerably in different jurisdictions.
I've been where you are, and I turned it down. In fact, I had a vasectomy, because I take paternity very seriously.
Lar
Posted by chicklet on August 5, 2008, at 18:05:07
In reply to Re: Being a sperm donor » chicklet, posted by Quintal on August 5, 2008, at 17:12:30
> No, not at all I think you were being nice! Sorry, I seem to make people feel put down no matter what I'm saying.
Heck no! It wasn't you. I just wanted to make sure, since I don't really know you.
It's not *you*, it's me :P
Yeah Lar's right.
Posted by Quintal on August 5, 2008, at 18:57:03
In reply to Re: Being a sperm donor » Quintal, posted by Larry Hoover on August 5, 2008, at 17:30:57
I don't see any good reason why I would refuse to support my offspring, so support payments aren't the issue. If I had children I would *want* to contribute to their upkeep. This isn't just a one way deal.
Q
Posted by fayeroe on August 5, 2008, at 19:05:28
In reply to Re: Being a sperm donor » Larry Hoover, posted by Quintal on August 5, 2008, at 18:57:03
> I don't see any good reason why I would refuse to support my offspring, so support payments aren't the issue. If I had children I would *want* to contribute to their upkeep. This isn't just a one way deal.
>
> QQ, I have concerns about the possibilities of changes in the future if you did father a child for your friend.
I agree with Larry about the legalties and can't speak for him but I know that you would support a child. No doubt about that.
When a person decides to have a child and asks a friend to donate their sperm, there are lots of "possibilities and probablities" that could come up down the road due to the fact that a child will be involved.
If it were me or one of my friends (you), I'd want to make sure that all of my "tees" and "eyes" were taken care of and the agreement would be hammered out by a professional. This wouldn't be to take away from anything concerning the friendship between the parents of the child, this has to do with what can happen down the road.....what we don't see it coming.The most important issue here is the welfare of the child, physically and emotionally, and it would be prudent to have the paperwork done and over with before the insemination takes place.
I think you are a very kind and caring man. If this does go forward you will be in my thoughts and heart.
Pat
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on August 5, 2008, at 23:25:22
In reply to Being a sperm donor, posted by Quintal on August 4, 2008, at 14:56:06
> And a father by proxy. It has finally come.
Aren't you supposed to wait for that part, you know, where you get the dirty magazine and go in the booth.??.;-)
I've wondered often, what happens if you are in the booth, getting your knockers off, just going full speed, and you miss hitting the sample bottle and spouge all over the wall or carpet? LOL. Yes, I am sick and gross. Sorry. But it's true?
Jay ;---\
Posted by Quintal on August 6, 2008, at 6:00:26
In reply to Re: Being a sperm donor » Quintal, posted by fayeroe on August 5, 2008, at 19:05:28
Yes, I see your point Pat. I think we would/should have some sort of legal agreement for the child's benefit, and so we both know what each of us expects in terms of custody so there are no surprises down the road. I can't see me ever having any grounds to challenge her for custody, and I wouldn't for the child's sake anyway. The only thing I'd go to court for would be access rights, but since we've been friends all our lives it's not likely that she'll just swan off into the sunset and never speak to me again once she's got my kid. We're like family already, just gone our seperate ways like brothers and sisters do. There's still that bond there.
I think I'll probably end up being 'uncle Q' to whatever child she has, even if she were to adopt - and she has considered that. Thank you for the words Pat. I have always wanted to have children, but I just put it to the back of my mind as something that would never happen. I would want to wait until I've finished my education and got a steady job before going into anything like this. I want to contribute as much as she does to their upbringing, and if she doesn't agree to that then it probably won't be something I'd consider. I would feel like I'm being used.
Q
Posted by Lemonaide on August 6, 2008, at 18:33:43
In reply to Being a sperm donor, posted by Quintal on August 4, 2008, at 14:56:06
I was told to never invest in a business together with friends. This is of course different than that but I just think if she wants to control the roost, she needs to find an anonymous donor for your protection and hers.
Posted by Quintal on August 6, 2008, at 18:39:55
In reply to Re: Being a sperm donor, posted by Lemonaide on August 6, 2008, at 18:33:43
Yes, you're probably right.
Q
Posted by fayeroe on August 6, 2008, at 18:49:03
In reply to Re: Being a sperm donor, posted by Quintal on August 6, 2008, at 18:39:55
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 8, 2008, at 19:10:51
In reply to Re: Being a sperm donor » Larry Hoover, posted by Quintal on August 5, 2008, at 18:57:03
I'm sorry, Quintal. I wasn't implying that you'd not be financially supportive....are you prepared to be a full-time parent, if something happens to her? Or, if the child is disabled, to put in 50% time in supportive care? And all the things fayeroe was talking about. The child's best interests come first in a court of law, and you may be called on to play a role that had not been understood to be part of the deal. I'm not thinking so clearly these days, so forgive me for being scattered.....I got the impression that you were thinking about emotional and social issues, rather that strict legalities. It's hard to do both, so I suggested some legal advice. For clarity.
Lar
Posted by manic666 on August 21, 2008, at 5:12:32
In reply to Being a sperm donor, posted by Quintal on August 4, 2008, at 14:56:06
hey i used to be a blood donor but i was drinking that much beer. the blood had the perfect head like stella. NOT REALLY MANIC666
Posted by manic666 on August 21, 2008, at 5:17:41
In reply to Re: Being a sperm donor, posted by manic666 on August 21, 2008, at 5:12:32
I GAVE SPERM WHEN I WORKED A SANDER ON THE WOOD FLOORS,i swallowed that much saw dust THE LADY GAVE BIRTH TO A RAG DOLL ,he he manic666
Posted by manic666 on August 21, 2008, at 13:03:00
In reply to Re: Being a sperm donor, posted by manic666 on August 21, 2008, at 5:12:32
hey i no there not funny but i have a bad feeling im heading back down, so im trying to joke my way out its meltdown, the 60mg cym is a no no so its back to base.hey i hope they take me to planet space head. i like that feeling manic666
Posted by Kath on August 31, 2008, at 21:27:11
In reply to Being a sperm donor, posted by Quintal on August 4, 2008, at 14:56:06
Hi Quintal,
I haven't read the whole thread, but I just want to give a 'pulling no punches' quick-flash reality picture.
We never know WHAT is going to happen when we have a child.
If the child turned out like one of mine, you'd be talking about a child who turns out to be a kind, fun, loving, generous, very intelligent, interesting, artistic, wonderful, sensitive person...
who has ADD, who started drinking, smoking & doing drugs around 13; also started skipping school big-time around then; whose drug use escalated from weed pretty quickly so that by 15 he was doing acid, hash, ketamine, & not that many years later, add in ecstasy, cocaine (including smoking it), crystal meth; by 22 having psychotic episodes, ending up with full-blown life-threatening psychosis; in hosp for a month & various times thereafter; diagnosed with schizophrenia; etc etc.
I am not trying to bad-mouth my child. He is a wonderful PERSON. His essence is. But he has BIG problems.
I am also not trying to throw cold water on the idea of having children.
I am saying that we never know how our children will turn out. I've lived through this with a VERY supportive, loving partner. I am very worn-down by all those years & the ongoing stuff still going on. I dread to even think of how it would be to go through even a part of that with possible other complications added in.
Maybe I'm just being negative & 'jaded' but I did want to mention that I wonder when people are thinking of having a child, how much thought they give to the fact that one just does not know what one is going to be presented with over the years.
Who knows - maybe if people thought about that nobody would have kids!
I am concerned about your well-being in the situation you've described.
I wish you all the best, Kath
Posted by Quintal on September 1, 2008, at 6:10:14
In reply to Re: Being a sperm donor » Quintal, posted by Kath on August 31, 2008, at 21:27:11
Thank you Kath. Yeah, well your son sounds a bit like me! So if one of them turned out to be a chip off the old block I'd have my work cut out. That said, I do have experince of these things so it wouldn't be too shocking if they starting doing what I was doing at their age. I don't expect parenthood to be a walk in the park. This idea is a long way off becoming a reality, if it ever does, so we will have some time to talk it through.
Thanks again for sharing your experience. I will bear it in mind when the time comes.
Q
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.