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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 2 to 26 of 35. Go back in thread:
Posted by Phillipa on July 21, 2005, at 19:08:44
In reply to I think I went psychotic again :-(, posted by Deneb on July 21, 2005, at 18:57:25
A delusion is believing that something that is not real is real. What do you mean by delusional? I know this is social so maybe I'm just missing a joke from an earlier Thread. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Deneb on July 21, 2005, at 19:25:19
In reply to Re: I think I went psychotic again :-( » Deneb, posted by Phillipa on July 21, 2005, at 19:08:44
> A delusion is believing that something that is not real is real. What do you mean by delusional? I know this is social so maybe I'm just missing a joke from an earlier Thread. Fondly, Phillipa
No, there is no joke...unfortunately. I don't know, maybe I wasn't really psychotic because I was able to think that what I was thinking didn't make sense to others. I keep thinking that certain people want me to die and taunt me to die etc. I'm not sure whether or not that counts as a delusion.
It was just a horrible horrible time. It was like something just snapped. Maybe my brain went haywire. I know it will happen again. I really really don't want it to happen again. I don't know what to do. Sorry about posting this in social, not sure where this belongs. Sorry about being a downer.
Posted by Jen Star on July 21, 2005, at 19:39:13
In reply to Re: I think I went psychotic again :-( » Phillipa, posted by Deneb on July 21, 2005, at 19:25:19
hi Deneb,
well, I"m glad you're feeling better and yourself again. We'll still keep liking you, even if you go psychotic from time to time, ok?When you do get into one of those episodes, why is it that you think people want harm to come to you? Is is the words in the posts, or something else? How long does it usually take before you realize that nobody wants to hurt you after all?
I hope you're doing ok!
take care,
JenStar
Posted by Phillipa on July 21, 2005, at 19:44:20
In reply to Re: I think I went psychotic again :-( » Deneb, posted by Jen Star on July 21, 2005, at 19:39:13
Deneb, Was it in real life or here? You might want to post on psychobabble too for feedback. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Deneb on July 21, 2005, at 19:52:12
In reply to Re: I think I went psychotic again :-(, posted by Phillipa on July 21, 2005, at 19:44:20
> Deneb, Was it in real life or here? You might want to post on psychobabble too for feedback. Fondly, Phillipa
When the online world crosses into the real world and endangers my life, then, ya, I think you could say I went psychotic IRL as well.
I think I'm ok now. I've calmed down considerably, but I am still afraid because I had calmed down for a few hours but then I went insane again.
Posted by Deneb on July 21, 2005, at 20:53:43
In reply to Re: I think I went psychotic again :-( » Phillipa, posted by Deneb on July 21, 2005, at 19:52:12
Out of thousands of members...I still stand out...in a bad way.
Could it be possible that I am just too disordered to participate in online support forums?
I just really don't believe that I am in such a bad way. I mean, there are sooo many more people out there who have *really* bad mental disorders who seem to get along wonderfully on forums. Why do I always go insane? How on Earth do people remain so composed? so sane? despite their difficulties and disorders?
How can this be. I just cannot believe that I'm in such a bad way.
Posted by sleepygirl on July 21, 2005, at 20:58:08
In reply to Re: Am I too disordered for online forums?, posted by Deneb on July 21, 2005, at 20:53:43
Heck no! You are definitely not "too disordered" and Hammy would certainly agree with me! What does that mean Deneb?
Posted by Phillipa on July 21, 2005, at 21:31:55
In reply to Re: Am I too disordered for online forums?, posted by sleepygirl on July 21, 2005, at 20:58:08
Deneb, No I don't believe you're too disordered for on-line forums. Heck there are a lot of people on this forum and others that have very serious problems also. That's why we're here to help each other. And also maybe get a laugh now and then. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by alexandra_k on July 21, 2005, at 21:36:50
In reply to Re: Am I too disordered for online forums?, posted by Deneb on July 21, 2005, at 20:53:43
Are you on any meds? I used to take a low dose anti-psychotic to try to minimise / prevent my getting too paranoid when stressed. It helped a little.
You aren't 'too disordered' for here, because you aren't blocked.
And as for posts going AWOL... Well... Saves regrets later I suppose.
Posted by Deneb on July 21, 2005, at 22:12:47
In reply to Re: Am I too disordered for online forums?, posted by alexandra_k on July 21, 2005, at 21:36:50
> Are you on any meds? I used to take a low dose anti-psychotic to try to minimise / prevent my getting too paranoid when stressed. It helped a little.
It sure would have been nice to take something to seriously calm down. Reason and evidence did not work for me...I think my emotions overwhelmed my reasoning abilities. I think I really lost it for a while. I'm afraid that this can happen to me again. I cannot control myself when I'm in such a state.
I just do not know what to do when I get that way. It is such a horrible place.
I'm not really taking much at all right now, never had. I even cut back the Celexa I was on. I think I seriously seriously need to get some help for this problem of mine (going "insane"). There is nowhere to go for help though...I do not like my GP and she is the only person who can refer me to another pdoc...I really don't like/can't stand talking with my family doc...she upsets me and annoys me. I don't the money for a T, or I don't want to spend my money on a T.
> You aren't 'too disordered' for here, because you aren't blocked.
Boy am I glad. I realize now that I could have been banned from this place so many times. I think Dr. Bob let me get away with things that are not allowed elsewhere. I had no idea. Maybe he really has seen it all and so is not totally freaked out by what I do. I'm so glad he doesn't freak out, so very very glad.
> And as for posts going AWOL... Well... Saves regrets later I suppose.
Ya...talk about AWOL...I posted 20 messages on PC and all but 9 of them have not been deleted. :-(
Deneb
Posted by alexandra_k on July 21, 2005, at 22:28:01
In reply to Re: Am I too disordered for online forums? » alexandra_k, posted by Deneb on July 21, 2005, at 22:12:47
> It sure would have been nice to take something to seriously calm down. Reason and evidence did not work for me...I think my emotions overwhelmed my reasoning abilities. I think I really lost it for a while. I'm afraid that this can happen to me again. I cannot control myself when I'm in such a state.
Control is much much much much much harder, I grant you that. The trouble with things that 'seriously calm you down' is that such things also tend to be seriously addictive and end up creating more problems than they solve. A low dose anti-psychotic taken regularly can sometimes be enough to PREVENT you getting to that bad place where control is much much much much harder.
And therapy too... Really. A combination of both would be best.
> I just do not know what to do when I get that way. It is such a horrible place.Yeah. I don't know what to say there.
> I'm not really taking much at all right now, never had. I even cut back the Celexa I was on.Ok. Whats that? Is it an anti-psychotic? Why did you cut it back? Do you think it might be worth increasing it again?
>I think I seriously seriously need to get some help for this problem of mine (going "insane"). There is nowhere to go for help though...I do not like my GP and she is the only person who can refer me to another pdoc...I really don't like/can't stand talking with my family doc...she upsets me and annoys me. I don't the money for a T, or I don't want to spend my money on a T.
Some people just seem to rub us up the wrong way. I remember you talking about your GP before and I do have some sympathy for you there. BUT: A referral. You could even write to her: Dear so and so I would like a referral to see a psychologist / psychiatrist. I think this would really benefit me. Cheers. Something like that. Even if you could just go and talk to her with that in mind. See her once and then if you get yourself a p-doc then you won't have to see her again.
> I realize now that I could have been banned from this place so many times. I think Dr. Bob let me get away with things that are not allowed elsewhere. I had no idea. Maybe he really has seen it all and so is not totally freaked out by what I do. I'm so glad he doesn't freak out, so very very glad.Different places have different rules. Its sometimes in seeing other ways things could be done that we come to appreciate the ways things are actually done.
> Ya...talk about AWOL...I posted 20 messages on PC and all but 9 of them have not been deleted. :-(
Yeah well, I got about 5 deleted today... Trying to sort it out now...
Do you get why they were deleted?
They are probably the sorts of posts that you later regret here and probably wish were deleted ;-)
Posted by Deneb on July 21, 2005, at 22:57:29
In reply to Re: Am I too disordered for online forums?, posted by alexandra_k on July 21, 2005, at 22:28:01
> A low dose anti-psychotic taken regularly can sometimes be enough to PREVENT you getting to that bad place where control is much much much much harder.
<snip>
> And therapy too... Really. A combination of both would be best.
I don't think I want to risk any cognitive blunting or tardive dykinesia from antipsychotics. So far, no doctor has said that I should be on APs. My pdoc told me specifically that APs are not for me. My family doctor said she didn't want to give me anything because she was afraid I was going to hurt myself by ODing on them or something. I would not mind using them when I really need to prevent death, but I don't think I need them otherwise.
> > I just do not know what to do when I get that way. It is such a horrible place.
>
> Yeah. I don't know what to say there.I'm glad you understand, but I wish you never had to experience that.
> > I'm not really taking much at all right now, never had. I even cut back the Celexa I was on.
>
> Ok. Whats that? Is it an anti-psychotic? Why did you cut it back? Do you think it might be worth increasing it again?No, it is an SSRI...used for everything from depression to OCD to social anxiety to PMS...it is a pretty "safe" drug. I don't know if increasing it again would be worthwhile. I was pretty crazy for a while even at the higher dose of 50mg, but then I was pretty stable for quite a long time (for me). Then I decreased it to 40mg and I've been pretty unstable I guess, but I cannot blame it all on meds. Perhaps I will experiment on going back to 50...I'm sure that's what my pdoc would have recommended. I know it cannot hurt me.
Before my pdoc went on maternity leave, so told me to book 4 more appts with her for when she comes back. I think maybe she may be back from maternity leave now, I'm not sure. Maybe I should call...but I just hate to bother her when she is so busy.
> Yeah well, I got about 5 deleted today... Trying to sort it out now...I'm sorry I contributed to that. Thanks for helping anyways, I did see them and they did help a little bit.
> Do you get why they were deleted?
> They are probably the sorts of posts that you later regret here and probably wish were deleted ;-)Yep, pretty much. Good thing I forget things easily. :-) OTOH, I'm glad people can see who I am and how I change.
Deneb
Posted by Phillipa on July 21, 2005, at 23:57:15
In reply to Re: Am I too disordered for online forums? » alexandra_k, posted by Deneb on July 21, 2005, at 22:57:29
Deneb, I really feel you should also post this Thread on PBabble. There the med experts can help with the celexa issue. Not to say that Alex doesn't know her meds. I just think the discussion part belongs here and the med issue there. But the important thing is for you to be where you feel the most comfortable and most reassured. But we all care about you so it really doesn't matter which Board you chose to post on. Please feel better. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Deneb on July 22, 2005, at 20:14:09
In reply to I think I went psychotic again :-(, posted by Deneb on July 21, 2005, at 18:57:25
I think I'm almost 100% recovered now. I still have some residual morbid desires (actually, I'm not sure they ever go away entirely :-( ), but I was able to actually laugh today.
I'm getting a grip on reality again, I think. I guess I'm never 100% in reality! lol
Deneb
Posted by alexandra_k on July 22, 2005, at 23:10:16
In reply to Re: Am I too disordered for online forums? » alexandra_k, posted by Deneb on July 21, 2005, at 22:57:29
> I don't think I want to risk any cognitive blunting or tardive dykinesia from antipsychotics.
Ok. As Phillipa pointed out (rightly enough) I really don't know very much at all about medications. However... I do believe that the risk of tardive dyskinesia is much higher for people who have taken the older anti-psychotics at very high dosages over long periods of time. I have also read some research that suggests the possibility that the symptoms of tardive dyskenesia might actually be due to degeneration in the schizophrenic brain rather than being caused by the meds anyway... But, the point is that a newer style anti-psychotic at a very low dose really doesn't pose much of a risk of that at all.
With respect to cognitive bluntening... It can take a few days / a week to adjust. Once you are adjusted its ok though. I guess the point is that I'm thinking that a medication might be able to assist your moods so that you don't have those panicky / paranoid times. They might help prevent you going there. They might help you come out of them faster. They might help them be less intense. That being said, sometimes mood stabilisers or anti-depressents can help with that too. Its just finding what works for you.
>So far, no doctor has said that I should be on APs. My pdoc told me specifically that APs are not for me.
ok
>I would not mind using them when I really need to prevent death, but I don't think I need them otherwise.
Sure. When you do well you do well. Its just about preventing you having those episodes. Its just that prevention is much easier than management once the situation has gotten bad. That was what I was thinking.
> No, it is an SSRI...used for everything from depression to OCD to social anxiety to PMS...it is a pretty "safe" drug. I don't know if increasing it again would be worthwhile. I was pretty crazy for a while even at the higher dose of 50mg, but then I was pretty stable for quite a long time (for me).
Ok. So it wasn't the magic cure, but it may have helped. Not in the sense that you didn't have bad times when you were on it - but in the sense that there was more time in between the bad times.
>Then I decreased it to 40mg and I've been pretty unstable I guess, but I cannot blame it all on meds.
No. I don't like to blame any one factor. I think it can be a combination of lots of things. I'm still finding it hard to figure out my triggers. My period seems to be a fairly big one. But then so is being under a lot of pressure with deadlines (though sometimes that can be when I am most productive / happy) so I don't know...
>Perhaps I will experiment on going back to 50...I'm sure that's what my pdoc would have recommended. I know it cannot hurt me.
Right. And it might help. It might help.
> Before my pdoc went on maternity leave, so told me to book 4 more appts with her for when she comes back. I think maybe she may be back from maternity leave now, I'm not sure. Maybe I should call...but I just hate to bother her when she is so busy.
Yes. Give her a call. Its her job. Don't worry about her being busy. Really. I'm sure she will be able to find some time to see you. She has probably been wondering how you were doing. I'm sure she would be pleased to hear from you.
> I'm sorry I contributed to that.Aw. Only a couple ;-)
I don't really understand why mine keep going AWOL.
I'll just have to wait and see if anybody wants to clue me in.> Yep, pretty much. Good thing I forget things easily. :-) OTOH, I'm glad people can see who I am and how I change.
:-)
yeah.
i'm fairly horrified sometimes when i look back at some of the posts i've made.
it can be nice to reflect on how one has changed sometimes.
though sometimes it can be really hard to see the lows.i was thinking about something that my dbt therapist said to me a while back now. basically... when i was upset i had a lot to say. venting mostly. when i wasn't upset she would want to try and get me to look at what happened and what led to me getting in that state. i didn't want to.
because... the lows will come soon enough - and i don't want to wreck my day by thinking about them when i am in a fairly good mood.
so when i was feeling ok then i'd just put all the memories of the hard times out of my head...
just enjoy the good and forget the bad...
but then when the bad came it really kicked me in the guts.my t tried to teach me that when you are in a good mood can be the best time to look at what happened when things went wrong. it can be the best time to plan and put safegards in (like working out triggers - like organising a p-doc and getting meds sorted).
so then when the low comes you are all prepared and it will be a little easier to get through.
something to think about,
or not...:-)
Posted by 10derHeart on July 22, 2005, at 23:25:38
In reply to Re: I think I'm Ok now, thanks for the suggestions, posted by Deneb on July 22, 2005, at 20:14:09
Hi Deneb,
Always relieved to see when you are feeling better.
This time, you sounded so scared during that episode...I wish those times could get easier and less frequent for you.
What Alex was writing about in her post...this part....
>>my t tried to teach me that when you are in a good mood can be the best time to look at what happened when things went wrong. it can be the best time to plan and put safegards in (like working out triggers - like organising a p-doc and getting meds sorted).
so then when the low comes you are all prepared and it will be a little easier to get through.<<
...that her prior T. was saying, is really some wonderful, practical advice, IMO.
Do give it some serious thought, please. I think some changes like medication, or even just reconnecting with your pdoc, honestly explaining what's been going on, and making a plan together, could be an amazing thing for you. (and she might have adorable baby pictures to show off...!)
She won't be too busy for you, because you are equally as important as any other patient she's ever had. And I was thinking, reading one of your other posts, she seems like a great person to talk with about being "different," and uncomfortable or confused about using the term mental illness about yourself. I'll bet she'd have some wise, interesting and new ways of looking at it for you. My T's generally have been great at that.
Just some things to consider while you are feeling strong, you know? Hope I'm not coming across all wrong....I do look for all your posts and I do care that you go forward and have a wonderful life :-)
Posted by Phillipa on July 22, 2005, at 23:26:48
In reply to Re: Am I too disordered for online forums?, posted by alexandra_k on July 22, 2005, at 23:10:16
Alexandra, I know you know your meds. Just thought two opinions might be better than one. And I'm really glad that you're doing so well now. If only I could do the same. But I'm working on it albeit by myself as no therapists near here or good pdocs. And BTW that was an excellent description of the older vs the newer Ap's Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by alexandra_k on July 22, 2005, at 23:55:08
In reply to Re: Am I too disordered for online forums? » alexandra_k, posted by Phillipa on July 22, 2005, at 23:26:48
> Alexandra, I know you know your meds.
- But I don't. Really. I can't even figure out what people are talking about half the time because of all the different names for them. People are much better going over to the meds board for advice on meds. Really. I'm also a little anti certain sorts of medications so I stay away from the meds board because I don't want to upset anyone. Its okay Phillipa :-)
>Just thought two opinions might be better than one.
Absolutely :-)
I hope you feel a bit better soon.
Posted by Deneb on July 23, 2005, at 19:07:43
In reply to Re: Am I too disordered for online forums?, posted by alexandra_k on July 22, 2005, at 23:10:16
>...But, the point is that a newer style anti-psychotic at a very low dose really doesn't pose much of a risk of that at all.
Well, it doesn't really matter what you or I think...it's kind of all up to the docs. I can't make them give me something if it is not what they believe is right for me.
So far it have been SSRI, SSRI and a tiny bit of propranolol (probably more for placebo effect than anything else!)
> That being said, sometimes mood stabilisers or anti-depressents can help with that too. Its just finding what works for you.Perhaps I'm not really as disordered as I seem to think...maybe that is why I don't need mood stabilizers or antipsychotics. :-)
I just don't really get it though...other people who are on so many medications just seem so much more functional than I am.
> my t tried to teach me that when you are in a good mood can be the best time to look at what happened when things went wrong. it can be the best time to plan and put safegards in (like working out triggers - like organising a p-doc and getting meds sorted).
That makes sense, but it seems so strange to ask for help when one is well! It seems almost silly and embarrassing for me. I don't think anyone would believe how crazy I can get when they only see the happy (but not *too* happy) me. It is a drag to have to spend good days preparing for the bad. It's also very difficult to realize just how bad my bad days can get...it is like I don't really remember them.
I did sort of made a plan to call the crisis centre, but all of it fell to the wayside...I just didn't think of what to do at all...like I said, I was really losing it.
Deneb
Posted by alexandra_k on July 24, 2005, at 18:32:59
In reply to Re: Preparing for the worst » alexandra_k, posted by Deneb on July 23, 2005, at 19:07:43
> Well, it doesn't really matter what you or I think...it's kind of all up to the docs.
Yeah, thats right. But it is good for you to know that there are many many different types of medication out there that could potentially benefit you. Not make it all magically better. But to give you a hand so you are better able to cope.
> Perhaps I'm not really as disordered as I seem to think...maybe that is why I don't need mood stabilizers or antipsychotics. :-)Sometimes you don't seem disordered at all. You function really well and seem to feel pretty good.
Other times you do seem a bit disordered with the intense distress / suicidal ruminations / paranoid thoughts. You have episodes of unwellness. Every now and then. Between them you do really well. So... its not that you are so very disordered, and its not that you are perfectly fine and there is nothing wrong with you. Rather... the truth lies in the middle: most of the time you do really well, but sometimes (during one of your episodes) you really struggle. It is about being better able to prevent / minimise / manage / cope with those episodes.
> it seems so strange to ask for help when one is well!Yeah. Thats where you need to tell them about your episodes. How terrifying they are to you. How you do / say things you later come to regret. How PAINFUL they are. That you want to learn to manage them better so that they don't prevent you from living the kind of life you want for yourself.
>I don't think anyone would believe how crazy I can get when they only see the happy (but not *too* happy) me.
Yeah. You could print out some of your posts.
>It is a drag to have to spend good days preparing for the bad.
Yes it is :-(
>It's also very difficult to realize just how bad my bad days can get...it is like I don't really remember them.
Yeah. State dependent memory. You are better able to remember things that you acquired when you were in a similar emotional state to the one you are in when you are trying to do the remembering. It is like when you are well you remember all those good memories and everything seems fine. You can't remember what the problem was and the last thing you want to do is try and drag that up. Especially if dragging it up involves you getting back into that emotional state.. When you are feeling really bad then you tend to remember all the other times you have felt that way. That seems to be an accurate recollection of your whole life. They good times are forgotten. All that is there are those horrid times and suicide starts to look appealing.
It is about being able to access those memories more freely. The good memories when one is feeling bad. And... the other side to that... the bad memories when one is feeling good. Then the episodes won't be anywhere near as intense or long lived. Thats how I get through sometimes 'It won't always be like this. It will pass in a couple days'. And I try to remember the good memories. Is is so hard. Probably the hardest thing in the world for me.
Posted by Deneb on July 24, 2005, at 19:03:03
In reply to Re: Preparing for the worst » Deneb, posted by alexandra_k on July 24, 2005, at 18:32:59
> Sometimes you don't seem disordered at all. You function really well and seem to feel pretty good.
Thanks :-)
> Other times you do seem a bit disordered with the intense distress / suicidal ruminations / paranoid thoughts. You have episodes of unwellness.
No kidding :(
> Yeah. Thats where you need to tell them about your episodes. How terrifying they are to you. How you do / say things you later come to regret. How PAINFUL they are. That you want to learn to manage them better so that they don't prevent you from living the kind of life you want for yourself.
This sounds kind of really morbid, but I'm starting to think that maybe I should prepare for death...I mean, I really do seem to lose control sometimes. I don't have real friends so it is not a big deal there. My Mom would be devastated...maybe I should write a note ahead of time. You guys will probably be ok too, death has happened before and people seem ok.
I dunno, am I being a little manipulative again if I ask people how they would remember me?
Then again death is a possibility for anyone at anytime so maybe I should just live my life?
Deneb
Posted by alexandra_k on July 24, 2005, at 21:00:58
In reply to Re: Preparing for the worst *trig*, posted by Deneb on July 24, 2005, at 19:03:03
> This sounds kind of really morbid, but I'm starting to think that maybe I should prepare for death...
Well, this might sound kind of morbid... But death will come soon enough. So best to make the most of the time and opportunities that you have. To really live a worthwhile life.
>I mean, I really do seem to lose control sometimes.
Sure. But then other times you do really well and seem to enjoy yourself and have a lot to offer to others as well.
>I don't have real friends so it is not a big deal there.
What am I? Chopped liver? <snif>
> Then again death is a possibility for anyone at anytime so maybe I should just live my life?
Yes. I think that is right.
Posted by Deneb on July 24, 2005, at 21:29:51
In reply to Re: Preparing for the worst *trig* » Deneb, posted by alexandra_k on July 24, 2005, at 21:00:58
> What am I? Chopped liver? <snif>
No, of course not! It's just easy to forget that online friends are friends nonetheless. :-)
You count in my world...you count a lot.
Now, shouldn't you be working on a paper or something? lol
I promise I'll be good so you won't have to explain things so much to me for the time being. ;-)
Posted by alexandra_k on July 24, 2005, at 21:33:21
In reply to Re: Preparing for the worst » alexandra_k, posted by Deneb on July 24, 2005, at 21:29:51
> Now, shouldn't you be working on a paper or something? lol
Yeeeeeees ;-)
> I promise I'll be good so you won't have to explain things so much to me for the time being. ;-):-)
I'm glad you put up with me to tell you the truth. In attempting to explain things to others I often find that I come to a better understanding myself. But I still have a long way to go... So I need you too Deneb. Don't you dare do anything you would regret when you are in a better frame of mind.And on that note... I had best get back to work...
:-)
Posted by Deneb on July 25, 2005, at 21:49:13
In reply to Re: Preparing for the worst » Deneb, posted by alexandra_k on July 24, 2005, at 21:33:21
*Sigh*
I can't even chat on PC without having mods jumping on my back telling me to go call 911. :-(
This is just for mentioning the word suicide.
I don't know why it makes me so upset to not be accepted there.
Maybe I shouldn't be accepted here either. :-(
This post would surely get deleted over there if you get what I mean. :-(
Deneb
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