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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by 10derHeart on February 16, 2005, at 23:43:12
In reply to Re: Single income families...esp. women, pls reply » gardenergirl, posted by Broken on February 16, 2005, at 22:44:45
Broken,
This is an absolutely beautiful, selfless, wonderful thing to have posted. It may have made my whole week.
You and your wife are both very blessed to have one another. And your children are blessed many, many times over.
Posted by gardenergirl on February 16, 2005, at 23:45:34
In reply to Re: Single income families...esp. women, pls reply » gardenergirl, posted by Broken on February 16, 2005, at 22:44:45
It sounds like you are part of a lovely family. And I'm glad you came back to Babble!
gg
Posted by saw on February 17, 2005, at 4:32:32
In reply to Re: Single income families...esp. women, pls reply » gardenergirl, posted by Broken on February 16, 2005, at 22:44:45
Your wife sounds like an exceptional woman. And you are an exceptional husband to take note and understand not to mention appreciate all she does.
Sabrina
PS - You can ignore my question now - just got the answer :) But you are welcome to tell me more.
Posted by jay on February 17, 2005, at 7:37:48
In reply to Single income families...esp. women, pls reply, posted by jay on February 16, 2005, at 16:33:01
Well....sorry folks but I had an exceptional childhood and both my parents worked full time. Because my Mom worked, my Dad took on some of her former roles of housekeeping, raising us, cooking, all domestic chores. My Dad was Mr. Mom, and that's the way it works in many other countries....fathers get paternal time off and such to be with their kids, while Mom goes out to work. This is not a 1950, Leave it to Beaver episode. That was just a crock of s*it anyways.
In this day in age...you **need** two incomes...NOT to buy a BMW...but to buy the kids a nice set of clothes and a nice warm house...if you are a working class person. Please...spare me the excuses...been there done it bought the t-shirt.Jay
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on February 17, 2005, at 8:25:19
In reply to Single income families...esp. women, pls reply, posted by jay on February 16, 2005, at 16:33:01
Wish my Mom had stayed at home instead of shipping me off to day care everyday after school. I could have done without the Volvos and prep school and the trips to Europe every summer for just some attention from my parents.
Should I ever have kids, I hope either my husband or I will stay home.
Posted by TamaraJ on February 17, 2005, at 10:00:51
In reply to Re: Single income families...esp. women, pls reply, posted by jay on February 17, 2005, at 7:37:48
Jay, this is all about personal decisions. There is no right or wrong answer to the question. In "this day in age" some women chose to contribute to the family and society by returning to the *paid* (monetarily) workforce and others chose to contribute to the family and society by working in the home where they do not receive monetary reward, but they do receive rewards of another kind that money sometimes can not transcend. Chosing one or the other does not mean that a child is not going to have the opportunity to receive wonderful care and nurturing and benefit from an exceptional childhood.
I have the utmost respect for a parent (either mother or father) who choses to stay home. I also admire women who return to the workforce, because the decision to do so, for many women, is a tough one to make when the child or children are in their developmental years.
Even though this is not the 1950s, it is important to respect other's decisions and their views on what is best for them and their children.
> Well....sorry folks but I had an exceptional childhood and both my parents worked full time. Because my Mom worked, my Dad took on some of her former roles of housekeeping, raising us, cooking, all domestic chores. My Dad was Mr. Mom, and that's the way it works in many other countries....fathers get paternal time off and such to be with their kids, while Mom goes out to work. This is not a 1950, Leave it to Beaver episode. That was just a crock of s*it anyways.
> In this day in age...you **need** two incomes...NOT to buy a BMW...but to buy the kids a nice set of clothes and a nice warm house...if you are a working class person. Please...spare me the excuses...been there done it bought the t-shirt.
>
> Jay
Posted by All Done on February 17, 2005, at 10:09:33
In reply to Re: Single income families...esp. women, pls reply » jay, posted by TamaraJ on February 17, 2005, at 10:00:51
> Jay, this is all about personal decisions. There is no right or wrong answer to the question. In "this day in age" some women chose to contribute to the family and society by returning to the *paid* (monetarily) workforce and others chose to contribute to the family and society by working in the home where they do not receive monetary reward, but they do receive rewards of another kind that money sometimes can not transcend. Chosing one or the other does not mean that a child is not going to have the opportunity to receive wonderful care and nurturing and benefit from an exceptional childhood.
>
> I have the utmost respect for a parent (either mother or father) who choses to stay home. I also admire women who return to the workforce, because the decision to do so, for many women, is a tough one to make when the child or children are in their developmental years.
Thank you, Tamara. You said what I can't even seem to get out in a rational manner because I feel hurt by some of the things that have been posted. (I hope that's civil.)I do believe everyone from both sides of the coin could stand to take a peek at what you have said. Not necessarily just Jay.
Thank you, again.
Laurie
a mom
Posted by Broken on February 17, 2005, at 10:52:13
In reply to Re: Single income families...esp. women, pls reply, posted by jay on February 17, 2005, at 7:37:48
> > In this day in age...you **need** two incomes...NOT to buy a BMW...but to buy the kids a nice set of clothes and a nice warm house...if you are a working class person. Please...spare me the excuses...been there done it bought the t-shirt.
>
> Jay
Not sure what excuses you mean? You're generalizing. I work in a steel mill. I am a working class male. Yes I put in a lot of hours, but at the moment, there is no need to have my wife working. I spoil my children a bit, they do have nice clothes, and a warm home. They also have their own televisions, dvd players, video games, and a Dell pc with wireless internet. I'm not trying to brag, but to say that you *need* two incomes if you are a working class person, is not necessarily true. And for me, speaking only for myself, the extra money we might have does not even compare to what my wife provides my children and I. I do not mean to sound pompas, but I definitely take great pride in the fact that my wife has a choice in what she prefers to do. As was said before, the answer is different for everyone.
Posted by Broken on February 17, 2005, at 10:56:46
In reply to Re: Single income families...esp. women, pls reply » Broken, posted by gardenergirl on February 16, 2005, at 23:45:34
Thankyou Garden,
I am learning now that Babble helps me a great deal. Reading other's posts does more than writing my own. And yes, I am very lucky to have the family I do.
Posted by AuntieMel on February 17, 2005, at 11:01:18
In reply to cant do it..., posted by justyourlaugh on February 16, 2005, at 23:09:03
It's such a thorny issue, isn't it. I believe you made the right choice for your kids, too.
I have nothing but admiration for full time moms.
I, myself, was a working mom. Did we really need the money? Not really - we could have scaled down and I could have stayed home. I mostly worked because I knew I wouldn't have the patience required for full time momhood.
My working made me a better mom, I think.
But - I've been blessed to have a job that is very flexible. Kids have a presentation or a show at school? I'd just bug out and go. Need a chaperone for the choir trip? Take a day off. My hours got me home early enough they were only in daycare a couple of hours. I never missed a band concert, football game, soccer game (I was even a coach) or anything else.
So - my hat is off to you and all fulltime moms.
And my hat is off to anyone who first considers what is best for the kids, whatever that best may be.
Posted by Broken on February 17, 2005, at 11:13:32
In reply to Re: Single income families...esp. women, pls reply » Broken, posted by 10derHeart on February 16, 2005, at 23:43:12
:)
I am glad it made your week. I am definitely the lucky one, I have no illusions about that whatsoever. I have beautiful children and a lovely wife. I know my post sounds somewhat utopian, and that isn't the reality. But after my first marriage, I have learned to really appreciate my life and the people that make it worth living.
Posted by AuntieMel on February 17, 2005, at 11:47:17
In reply to Single income families...esp. women, pls reply, posted by jay on February 16, 2005, at 16:33:01
I understand the message about equal responsibility. But equal responsibility can take on many faces.
I'm more interested in how that played a part in a relationship collapse. Granted it's a very serious issue that both need to agree on, but it seems that differences could be worked out if everything else was fine.
And maybe it's just my defensiveness, but when you said "I didn't want to take on the role of forever being the sole support." it sounded like you feel it would be too much pressure on you.
My take, for what it's worth.
Posted by Angielala on February 17, 2005, at 13:27:16
In reply to Single income families...esp. women, pls reply, posted by jay on February 16, 2005, at 16:33:01
I don't think that's a reason a relationship would fail. Money should have nothing to do with whether a relationship keeps on truckin' or dies off. Relationships shouldn't have pre-requistes like "You should work just like I do".
> You know, I've been thinking about this. I finally found out why my last relationship collapsed...and that was because I didn't want to be the single bread winner in a family. I didn't want to take on the role of forever being the sole support. I want a partner who is willing and able to work like I do. In 2005, is that asking for too much? If you want to have kids(and put them through college, etc.), a very nice home, a fairly comfortable lifestyle, I think it is only fair both parents work. (And both parents share household duties, etc.) I am not a greedy or money-hungry person, but that was the way I was raised, two working class parents, and we had it very good...never went without. I had an amazing childhood. What do you gals (and guys) think?
>
> Thanks,
> Jay
Posted by sunny10 on February 17, 2005, at 13:27:37
In reply to Re: Single income families...esp. women, pls reply » jay, posted by AuntieMel on February 17, 2005, at 11:47:17
When you find the right person, this is NOT going to be one of the make it or break it questions.
When you form a relationship, you form an agreement about expectations and managing expectations. It's not about money, it's about personal worth. Together you will come up with a solution that works for both of you.
And you may find that your position on things changes over time. You both must be willing to adapt and listen to reason. Sometimes you will be right, sometimes the other person will be right.
If you can't come up with a solution on ANY ONE THING that is important to you (core value- wise)then that merely means that you will NOT succeed as a couple together.You throw each other back in and reel in a new fish and try again...
That's what life and love is.....cooperation, compromise, comfort, and joy in each other's company.
Posted by jay on February 17, 2005, at 13:52:07
In reply to And that's all I have to say about that, posted by Angielala on February 17, 2005, at 13:27:16
Angiielala, I do agree with you. It's just that was from the other person's perspective, that they knew I was continuing my education, wanted to get established, and needed a partner who could help bring some income by working. But, instead, she wanted to quit her job, move in with me, and have me pay look after herself and her son (who is 10) because work was too 'stressful' for her. (She has a crappy job...I agreed with her and supported her in finding something she would be happy in.)
Anyhow...that is the lowdown on that.
Thanks,
Jay
Posted by jay on February 17, 2005, at 14:03:39
In reply to Single income families...esp. women, pls reply, posted by jay on February 16, 2005, at 16:33:01
And hold me to a death sentence (heh...yes I do have a sense of humour..), please read my above note to Angielala. It explains the context, and the conditions in which I am framing this question in. I am not against women who have stayed at home to raise kids...that's great if you could afford to, and if your hubby played no domestic role, even more kudos to you. I am not blaming you, so please stop attacking me and jumping all over me. Many factors come into play here, especially socio-economic factors, and coming from a working class background, this is important to remember. As Ron said, each situation is very different, and I should have mentioned that at the begining.
Thank you,
Jay
Posted by sunny10 on February 17, 2005, at 14:12:49
In reply to Before you jump to conclusions...PLS read...., posted by jay on February 17, 2005, at 14:03:39
I'm sure you must have been stinging a bit already, though- sorry...
I kinda figured you had a scenario in mind when you asked the question...
Guess you found a hot Babble button... don't let the fallout get to you!
Posted by Angielala on February 17, 2005, at 17:05:56
In reply to Re: And that's all I have to say about that » Angielala, posted by jay on February 17, 2005, at 13:52:07
Yikes- good thing you got away. I don't understand why anyone goes into a relationship with preconcieved ideas of what will happen.
Sorry to jump, Jay. Thanks for having a good sense of humor about it <blush>
> Angiielala, I do agree with you. It's just that was from the other person's perspective, that they knew I was continuing my education, wanted to get established, and needed a partner who could help bring some income by working. But, instead, she wanted to quit her job, move in with me, and have me pay look after herself and her son (who is 10) because work was too 'stressful' for her. (She has a crappy job...I agreed with her and supported her in finding something she would be happy in.)
>
> Anyhow...that is the lowdown on that.
>
> Thanks,
> Jay
Posted by NikkiT2 on February 17, 2005, at 17:21:44
In reply to Re: Single income families...esp. women, pls reply, posted by jay on February 17, 2005, at 7:37:48
OK.. another view..
Both my parents worked when I was a kid.. and I *hated* it..
From age 7 I walked myself to school.. within a week fo starting at a new school where I knew no one to walk with..
From 12 I got the bus to school (went up to High sschool) and let myself in when I got home. (That part I quite liked!)But school holidays I was farmed out to all and sundry.. a week here, and week there.. whether or not they lived anywhere near any of my friends.. whether or not I got in with the persons kids..
That I really really hated.. with a passion.. I had no siblings anywhere near my age (my sibling, two brothers, are 13 and 15 years older than me) and it was really lonely..
*shrugs*
Nikki
Posted by jay on February 17, 2005, at 19:48:24
In reply to Re: Single income families...esp. women, pls reply, posted by sunny10 on February 17, 2005, at 13:27:37
You forgot one thing...prenuptials. :-)
Jay
Posted by jay on February 17, 2005, at 19:53:29
In reply to Re: Single income families...esp. women, pls reply » jay, posted by AuntieMel on February 17, 2005, at 11:47:17
> I understand the message about equal responsibility. But equal responsibility can take on many faces.
>
> I'm more interested in how that played a part in a relationship collapse. Granted it's a very serious issue that both need to agree on, but it seems that differences could be worked out if everything else was fine.
>
> And maybe it's just my defensiveness, but when you said "I didn't want to take on the role of forever being the sole support." it sounded like you feel it would be too much pressure on you.
>
> My take, for what it's worth.Well..yeah..the sole support thing is an issue. I work in social services...I am not a banker or anything like that. I am highly prone to cutbacks and lower paying jobs. I consider it a 'tag-team' effort, in all ways, from raising kids to housework to income.
IMHO...
Jay
Posted by Dinah on February 18, 2005, at 0:01:27
In reply to Re: Single income families...esp. women, pls reply, posted by NikkiT2 on February 17, 2005, at 17:21:44
Our family, and my family of origin, worked more of a compromise solution.
My mother worked as a teacher, so her hours were my hours, I could hang out in her classroom after school, and she was off summers and holidays when I was.
I work part time mainly from home. My son goes to school and summer camp (with school hours). He likes both, and enjoys the companionship. He rarely goes to aftercare. If I can't be available on holidays, his dad takes off. Sometimes he stays with grandparents, and they watched him a lot when he was younger than school aged. But he knew them really really well, and they came to his house, not vice versa.
I don't think I'd make a very good full time mom. Well, maybe now that he's in school. But it requires an intensity I'd find difficult. And he wouldn't do well in aftercare all the time. He enjoys it now and again, but he really needs the downtime after school. He gets worn out being "on" for all that time.
So this is a good solution for *our* family, though by no means would it work for all.
(BTW, my husband does way more housework than I do. He's got higher standards.)
Posted by AuntieMel on February 18, 2005, at 9:18:02
In reply to Re: Single income families...esp. women, pls reply, posted by NikkiT2 on February 17, 2005, at 17:21:44
My mom didn't work for a long time and I *still* got farmed out in the summer. Ick.
Posted by sunny10 on February 18, 2005, at 10:26:48
In reply to Re: being farmed out » NikkiT2, posted by AuntieMel on February 18, 2005, at 9:18:02
I come from a divorced family (never met my dad- he left when mom was pregnant with me- I have two older siblings from another father; that first husband beat my mother and brother- mom divorced him when she was pregnant with my sister). My own dad never married mom, but cancelled their engagement when he found out she was pregnant with me.
My mother had three kids to support on her own entirely. We were too much work for mom- she hated us, but put food on the table and a roof over our heads. Obviously there was daycare and summer camps- my mom lied when I was five and said I was six in order to send me to overnight camp with my siblings for three weeks. We went to overnight camps every year for three weeks out of each summer to give my mom a break and so she could take vacations at the beach without us for a couple of those weeks.
I myself am now divorced (hunh, go figure)... I bought the lie about being allowed to "stay home to raise the kids" in the huose with the white picket fence, a dog, a cat, and 2 children- which of course never happened.
My ex-husband went through MY savings, put 20,000 dollars on credit cards, bought everything for himself.
So, this issue of supporting a person? It doesn't go one way, and it certainly isn't simple. Each and every situation is different.
Posted by justyourlaugh on February 18, 2005, at 10:37:55
In reply to Re: being farmed out, posted by sunny10 on February 18, 2005, at 10:26:48
my SO does not support me...
we each are contibuting to the family..
if i was running a day care..it would be woking...if i do the same job for my own kids it is being supported by another?
my life is not a "lie"..
i need to go pick up lego now..
j
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