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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on January 1, 2005, at 21:20:13
I thought I had it licked. Arrogant me.
There are some changes in my life that make an increase in OCD reasonable because they upset the accomodations I've made to keep the OCD under control.
But the increase in OCD is more than can be accounted for by that.
I'm not sleeping well, not even with meds. The anxiety is getting to be unbearable. Depression I can live with. That itchy crawly anxious feeling is horrible. Just horrible. I had forgotten how horrible. I just can't have this indefinitely. I don't know how to readjust my life to where it's bearable again.
Klonopin just isn't enough.
I hate the fears that even I know are silly. I hate the crushing feeling of impending doom. I just HATE anxiety disorders.
Posted by fallsfall on January 1, 2005, at 21:59:57
In reply to I thought my OCD was under control, posted by Dinah on January 1, 2005, at 21:20:13
(((((Dinah)))))
I have no idea how to make you feel better - how to make it go away.
But I'll keep you company if that helps at all...
Posted by 64bowtie on January 2, 2005, at 2:41:03
In reply to I thought my OCD was under control, posted by Dinah on January 1, 2005, at 21:20:13
I ask this with respect for your knowledge base...
Chicken/Egg question: do meds delay successful recovery? Since I trust my perception, for the first time in my life, I see new stuff sooner than I ever could imagine when I was fogged out trusting my beliefs instead; being lulled by the siren song of my gut!
Oddly, it just occurred to me that buying into my beliefs set me back several years from "SEEING and HEARING" new information that just happened to contain remedies. I am certain of this since many items were later repeated verbatim and had so much more sticking power!
This isn't some underhanded suggestion for you to get off meds. I wouldn't waste your time with that trash. I am asking if you might have perhaps seen a study about the delaying of results, maybe causing regrets that the process didn't happen sooner.
I miss you and I bearly know you, Rod
Posted by Toph on January 2, 2005, at 7:54:58
In reply to I thought my OCD was under control, posted by Dinah on January 1, 2005, at 21:20:13
I'm no OCD expert, but of my older OCD clients many have difficulty putting their lives back into order after a traumatic loss. I would think that you may need to spend less energy frantically reestablishing order and more effort at finding a way to give yourself permission to have a big emotional mess right now that will take time to clean up.
-Toph
Posted by Dinah on January 2, 2005, at 9:38:50
In reply to Re: I thought my OCD was under control » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on January 1, 2005, at 21:59:57
Thanks, Falls. I need to do some planning and boundary setting, I think. It's tough to do, while still trying to fulfill my responsibilities. But I fulfill my responsibilities better if I can keep them within the bounds of what I can actually do without causing myself to break down.
And that's going to happen if I don't draw lines.
Posted by Dinah on January 2, 2005, at 9:40:49
In reply to (((Dinah))), I ask your indulgence..., posted by 64bowtie on January 2, 2005, at 2:41:03
Trust me, if anything I'm undermedicated. :) I'm rather sensitive to side effects. That's why I use therapy more - so that I can use meds less. It costs more because I have good prescription coverage. But I like the fewer side effects.
Posted by Dinah on January 2, 2005, at 9:42:39
In reply to Re: I thought my OCD was under control » Dinah, posted by Toph on January 2, 2005, at 7:54:58
That's what my therapist says. Unfortunately a big emotional mess will mean a big real life - work and financial and family - mess that I just can't afford. I'm not sure if I can avoid it, but I am sort of frantic in trying.
Posted by Larry Hoover on January 2, 2005, at 10:24:10
In reply to I thought my OCD was under control, posted by Dinah on January 1, 2005, at 21:20:13
> I thought I had it licked. Arrogant me.
>
> There are some changes in my life that make an increase in OCD reasonable because they upset the accomodations I've made to keep the OCD under control.
>
> But the increase in OCD is more than can be accounted for by that.
>
> I'm not sleeping well, not even with meds. The anxiety is getting to be unbearable. Depression I can live with. That itchy crawly anxious feeling is horrible. Just horrible. I had forgotten how horrible. I just can't have this indefinitely. I don't know how to readjust my life to where it's bearable again.
>
> Klonopin just isn't enough.
>
> I hate the fears that even I know are silly. I hate the crushing feeling of impending doom. I just HATE anxiety disorders.You have been under prolonged stress. That causes biochemical changes. Your body cannot just take stress forever, without having to compensate in some ways.
Prolonged activation will cause significant loss of magnesium in urine. Sufficient magnesium is a requirement for GABA activity to be registered at its receptors (think Klonopin) and for the formation of melatonin (sleep). Try taking 500 mg of magnesium, in divided doses, with food. Some people find that 300 mg just before bed knocks them right out. You may have to experiment a bit with the dose.
Another thing you can do is to take some niacinamide. That's the AMIDE form of vitamin B3. Not niacin. NiacinAMIDE.
It directly activates the sensitivity of GABA receptors. It also partially agonizes them, giving a general calming effect. You can take up to 500 mg, four times a day.
We've been talking quite a bit about niacinamide on the Alternative board, and there are some reports of near miraculous effects.
Take care of you.
Lar
Posted by NikkiT2 on January 2, 2005, at 12:10:02
In reply to I thought my OCD was under control, posted by Dinah on January 1, 2005, at 21:20:13
I know you have mentioned reading books about CBT, but have you ever had CBT with a therapist?
That was my life saver for my anxiety.. Its 100%, but its an awful lot more managable for me now that I have the CBT skills ingrained into me.
I tried the books, but I needed someone there, leading me, questioning me and delving into wat I *really* believed, as often I didn't know myself exactly why I was having the reactions I did to things.. Then she could question those beliefs for me, leading me to the answer.I know how horrid anxiety is.. its completely dibelitating.. I hope you find some rest from it
Nikki x
Posted by deirdrehbrt on January 2, 2005, at 17:47:57
In reply to I thought my OCD was under control, posted by Dinah on January 1, 2005, at 21:20:13
Dinah,
I don't find you arrogant, but hopeful. You fell into that same trap that I sometimes do... the symptoms are gone for a while and you think the condition is gone as well. Then those symptoms return and it is like being dealt another blow from an all too familiar enemy.
One day the symptoms will go away, and they will go for good. It might take time to believe that they are gone, but they will be. I hope that day comes soon for you, you deserve it.Dee.
Posted by Toph on January 2, 2005, at 18:39:50
In reply to Re: I thought my OCD was under control » Toph, posted by Dinah on January 2, 2005, at 9:42:39
> That's what my therapist says. Unfortunately a big emotional mess will mean a big real life - work and financial and family - mess that I just can't afford. I'm not sure if I can avoid it, but I am sort of frantic in trying.
If you don't mind my saying it, that sounds like your OCD talking. I bet if you asked your boss and family for time off to really grieve, I mean fall apart grieving, they'd say OK (you are bright and capable - they'll wait for you), Family Leave Act notwithstanding. Balancing all those emotional balls is stressing you out big time. Let them drop, sit down, take a few deep breaths, have a big cry, and rest for awhile before you pick them up again.
Either way, franticly or catharticly, I have a feeling you'll climb out of this one too.
-Toph
Posted by Dinah on January 2, 2005, at 20:09:15
In reply to Re: I thought my OCD was under control » Dinah, posted by Larry Hoover on January 2, 2005, at 10:24:10
Thanks Lar. I remembered I had some magnesium in the cupboard and the date is still well within the expiration date, so I had two this evening. I'll give it a while and see if it will work.
I'm going to have to make my way over to the Alternative Board as soon as these blasted migraines stop so that I can see my screen well and ask about fish oil. My internist pulled me off Lipitor because my iffy liver was giving me some slightly abnormal readings on it, and told me to use fish oil instead. The idea of fishy burps is distinctly unappealing so I guess I need to do some research over there.
Posted by Dinah on January 2, 2005, at 20:13:51
In reply to Re: I thought my OCD was under control » Dinah, posted by NikkiT2 on January 2, 2005, at 12:10:02
CBT is my therapist's specialty, believe it or not. (I know it's hard to believe since we're celebrating our tenth this spring.) With his help with CBT I thought I had it under control. I haven't had serious problems with it since the nineties. He's reminding me of all the CBT techniques now, but he also thinks... Drat. I can't recall offhand what he thinks. Something about... Oh yes. That with so many losses so quickly, my brain is waiting for the other shoe to drop.
I have nothing but good things to say about CBT for OCD though. It's the first line defense, I think.
Posted by Dinah on January 2, 2005, at 20:15:35
In reply to Re: I thought my OCD was under control » Dinah, posted by deirdrehbrt on January 2, 2005, at 17:47:57
I hope so, Dee. I thought I had graduated, so to speak, from OCD to the problems OCD disguised. I guess my coping mechanisms are falling short of the stress, and my old friend OCD is stepping into the breach.
I really hate the physical manifestations of anxiety, though.
Posted by Dinah on January 2, 2005, at 20:49:57
In reply to Re: I thought my OCD was under control » Dinah, posted by Toph on January 2, 2005, at 18:39:50
I'm irreplaceable.
The upside is that I'm irreplaceable.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 2, 2005, at 20:58:58
In reply to The downside to a very small employer... » Toph, posted by Dinah on January 2, 2005, at 20:49:57
> I'm irreplaceable.
>
> The upside is that I'm irreplaceable.Now now Dinah, there has got to be a middle ground. Listen very closely because here it is: you are irreplaceable :-)
he he sorry, couldn't resist.
Posted by Dinah on January 2, 2005, at 23:24:53
In reply to Re: The downside to a very small employer... » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on January 2, 2005, at 20:58:58
Posted by 64bowtie on January 5, 2005, at 3:00:26
In reply to Re: (((Dinah))), I ask your indulgence... » 64bowtie, posted by Dinah on January 2, 2005, at 9:40:49
Have you seen any studies that indicate that rushing into meds therapy simply delays the inevitable? Isn't recovery an inside job, requiring a great deal of precision housecleaning, perhaps...?
Rod
Posted by Dinah on January 5, 2005, at 6:55:41
In reply to (((Dinah))) Pardon me for being a noodge..., posted by 64bowtie on January 5, 2005, at 3:00:26
I've been in therapy for nearly ten years, Rod. In medication for nearly 8. I don't think it could be said that I rushed into medication, and my minimal dosing is probably too little, not too much.
Posted by 64bowtie on January 6, 2005, at 2:50:05
In reply to Re: (((Dinah))) Pardon me for being a noodge... » 64bowtie, posted by Dinah on January 5, 2005, at 6:55:41
(((Dinah))),
I'm clear about you and your situation... Saw you clearly awhile back. What I'm wondering is about the mental health community being overwhelmed and retreating to meds instead of good old fashioned hard work.
Remember, dear person, that you and I don't seem to be on the same page about group therapy being a step up and out and away from the one on one (expensive) stuff... I see a huge amount of growth because the, "Duh! Ahah! Wow! Shazam!" stuff happens for many folks all at the same time improving the significance of the growth of each and all.
Group can last up two hours, sometimes several times per week, without finacial failure. After all, going to church is similar to going to group.
Growth happens as pain-growth-joy! ...throughout all mental health successes world wide. What is so different about group is that the group has a sublime hold of accountability on the individual, reducing back-sliding and failure. Its evidence of peer-propping-up the individual by the many clients.
Meds don't seem to improve the group experience anymore than two or more groups per week seems to help; multiple meetings do something that meds do the opposite of. They clear the vision by holding the clients attention, whereas meds tend to cloud the vision, delaying the "witness" phenomenon of seeing the door open and awareness of safety toward going through that door. For adults, the visual cortex stores the new information that can hold the keys to successful recovery.
If we take a client and poke out one or both eyes, the client can no longer see the new stuff without the other senses translating so that the "mind's eye" can do something productive with the info. Vision is the forte of the foreground functioning of the visual cortex. The "mind's eye" is the background functioning of visual cortex. Dreams and dreaming is background awareness and "mind's eye" functioning at its best.
Moral of the story? Don't do stuff to cloud the ability to see! Now, have you read or heard anyone else talking about meds clouding the vision of the client thus delaying progress???
I'm very "un-worried" about your progress! You have made great progress even in the last 90 days!!! I'm concerned about the industrywide habits (bad and good)...
Rod
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