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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on September 6, 2004, at 23:25:35
I have no talent for joy.
I found it for a while with the help of a little dog that embodied joy for me, but I lost it when I lost her.
Posted by octopusprime on September 7, 2004, at 0:24:42
In reply to But how do I fill my life with joy?, posted by Dinah on September 6, 2004, at 23:25:35
(sorry i got a brain like a jukebox - i heard "i got the joy joy joy joy down in my heart" - as sung by rod and todd flanders on the simpsons - when i read that post)
(also this is extremely long, feeling rambly)
well dinah, you prolific poster you:
if i knew how to fill up my heart so it was set to all joy, all the time, i wouldn't be posting here. ;-)
so take everything i say with a mountain of salt.
i just had a couple of pretty good days in a row. and in fact there was joy in them. let's do ten things that make me joyful:
1. dancing like nobody's watching
2. singing like nobody's listening
3. a good meal with good friends
4. a starry night on the beach
5. making music with strangers
6. a spontaneous unexpected happening
7. driving my little car too fast with the windows down
8. a breath of fresh air
9. working up an honest sweat
10. fart bombs! (ok that was just funny)i get a glimpse of joy sometimes dinah and it's never when i expect it. many nights i feel the joy when i am dancing ... when i become one body with the crowd ... when the musicians make me move and i move the musicians ... when i stop being in a place and start being in a moment ... when friends and strangers become one ...
i had a good dance last night. the kind of dance doesn't matter to me: last night it was a drum circle ... but i've had that moment when i was folk dancing, raving, disco, etc ...
joy that made the rest of the world fall away. exhilaration. the burning of a new memory into the recesses of the mind. honest sweat. collapse. sweet memories.
i stopped dancing for a little while. i stopped playing the music that made me dance. i started hanging around with stodgy old people that didn't dance. and the joy was gone. was it depression, plain and simple, was that why i stopped?
or maybe i didn't realize that it was music and dance that made me joyful ... i spent too long at home crying to my cure cds and forgot about the sheer joy music can bring ...
and i started playing the drums and sure enough the joy came back. not right away. i just kept going with it cause i liked the routine, i liked learning something new. and then the joy returned. it helped that i connected with some real life people that love what i love ...
the joy is in the human connections. the joy is in our pets. the joy is in being open to experience and love.
the joy is in not fearing pain, heartbreak, and loss. the joy is in playing on through the struggles and climbing another mountain another day.
i know skiers and mountain climbers and bikers and they all get the rush from their sport. they struggle through injury and pain and fear to get the adrenaline rush of that perfect run/climb ... to hit that peak ...
it's a confluence of factors. it's coincidence. we can't expect joy to happen. but we do have to be open to it, to going with the flow, to committing to the things and people and animals we love. we have to let go of all our old fears. make room for the new.
bah. against my better judgement i will submit this post. the hopeful part of my brain took over, my inner critic is telling me to rescind the post. so joy is fleeting i guess. but i was there. for a minute, for an hour, for a day. i'll hold that joy with all my heart, and hope i can remember it again in a black hour.
Posted by partlycloudy on September 7, 2004, at 7:21:35
In reply to if the devil doesn't like it he can sit on a tack, posted by octopusprime on September 7, 2004, at 0:24:42
That was a beautiful post, and yes - full of joy. It's a keeper, I'm going to print it out. Thank you.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on September 7, 2004, at 8:30:44
In reply to if the devil doesn't like it he can sit on a tack, posted by octopusprime on September 7, 2004, at 0:24:42
You said it so well! I feel no greater joy than when I dance.
Posted by Dinah on September 7, 2004, at 8:35:10
In reply to if the devil doesn't like it he can sit on a tack, posted by octopusprime on September 7, 2004, at 0:24:42
Unfortunately, I have lost the ability to feel or enjoy music. So that avenue to joy is denied to me at the present. I certainly remember it though.
However, I believe that under my productive and efficient exterior, I'm a wee bit depressed right now. And my original post was probably colored by depression. Surely it's impossible that I haven't experienced any joy at all in over fifteen years. It's hard to believe it's been that long, she's been gone well over twice the time I had her.
Posted by partlycloudy on September 7, 2004, at 8:42:19
In reply to Re: if the devil doesn't like it he can sit on a tack, posted by Dinah on September 7, 2004, at 8:35:10
Sometimes joy comes in increments so small we can't see it until after it's become a memory. Do you plan to get another dog sometime? 15 years is an extra-special long time for a pooch. I'm sure he stayed around for the love and joy you gave him, too.
Sometimes I enjoy silence more than I enjoy music. Just to be still can be a huge gift.
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on September 7, 2004, at 8:57:36
In reply to But how do I fill my life with joy?, posted by Dinah on September 6, 2004, at 23:25:35
You allowed this wonderful life into your life and now you can allow other joy to enter when you are ready. I am sorry for your loss.
Posted by Dinah on September 7, 2004, at 13:05:39
In reply to Re: But how do I fill my life with joy?, posted by Shadowplayers721 on September 7, 2004, at 8:57:36
I think I explained badly. The dog who was my joy died 15+ years ago, at the age of 6. I've had a number of dogs since then, including my little king Harry who isn't expected to live much longer, well he wasn't expected to live this long either. But none that brought me that little bubble of happiness.
Still, I really am depressed right now, and I know that's coloring my vision.
Posted by Susan47 on September 7, 2004, at 15:27:07
In reply to if the devil doesn't like it he can sit on a tack, posted by octopusprime on September 7, 2004, at 0:24:42
I liked the side of your judgement that *wasn't* "better": I'm glad you posted, it was wonderful to read your thoughts.
Posted by SLS on September 7, 2004, at 15:27:59
In reply to But how do I fill my life with joy?, posted by Dinah on September 6, 2004, at 23:25:35
Hi Dinah.
It might be easier to find Joy if you don't look necessarily to relate it to yourself or your own experiences. You must look outside yourself. For instance, to witness the perfection of a young child at play is in itself complete. It is in no way a reflection of you or dependent upon what you are feeling to exist in its perfection. To recognize this perfection despite your inability to experience it for yourself is Joy. For me, making a spiritual connection makes it very much easier to experience Joy. I find Joy in the child because I find Joy in the nature of the Universe.
(I would substitute "nature" with "perfection", except that it might be a difficult leap for some to make in the face of the misery that one can see around them).
Does that make any sense?
The little Joys tend to add up.
What's really neat is when you can be a participant in the perfection. If you look around, you will see that you already are. See. You are smiling.
:-)
- Scott
Posted by SLS on September 7, 2004, at 15:54:27
In reply to Re: But how do I fill my life with joy? » Dinah, posted by SLS on September 7, 2004, at 15:27:59
What a wonderful thread!
It is so enlightening to see how other people experience joy.
- Scott
Posted by Susan47 on September 7, 2004, at 15:59:46
In reply to Re: But how do I fill my life with joy?, posted by SLS on September 7, 2004, at 15:54:27
I love the way you described of finding joy in little things; it's what I try for as well and it really works, it's beautiful. Thank-you for sharing so eloquently (I'm going to grab my thesaurus, there must be another way to say eloquent).
Posted by Dinah on September 7, 2004, at 16:13:49
In reply to Re: But how do I fill my life with joy? » Dinah, posted by SLS on September 7, 2004, at 15:27:59
G*d, Scott. I wish I could. I seem to have lost that ability right along with the ability to experience music. I can see the most perfect things and be as unmoved as if I were looking at a box.
What I'm pretty sure of, though, is that that hasn't been a constant state for me for over fifteen years. It *feels* that way right now, but I *know* it can't be so. It's distorted thinking. I know that.
I just deleted a huge chunk of post because it was ridiculously self pityingly and I can't abide myself when I'm like this. I need to avoid myself for a while I think.
I'd be sorry I ever started this self pitying thread, except that it *is* good to see other people sharing their joys.
I'm sorry to be such a total wet squelchy blanket. Ignore my squelchier posts, everyone. I'll try to concentrate on others. That always helps.
Posted by partlycloudy on September 7, 2004, at 17:20:33
In reply to Re: But how do I fill my life with joy? » SLS, posted by Dinah on September 7, 2004, at 16:13:49
Dinah, I was wondering how your earlier post about your dog had been misinterpreted. You are clearly in touch with your emotions about this pet who passed a long time ago. You're afraid that you won't feel that way, with the same intensity, again?
Posted by TexasChic on September 7, 2004, at 17:39:48
In reply to if the devil doesn't like it he can sit on a tack, posted by octopusprime on September 7, 2004, at 0:24:42
That was a beautiful post octopusprime. And it reminded me of what my T said a little while back. She said if you are physically active, it makes it harder to be depressed. I think the idea has some merit, but I have such a hard time getting active in the first place! It just involves way too much exertion!
Posted by TexasChic on September 7, 2004, at 17:42:38
In reply to Re: if the devil doesn't like it he can sit on a t, posted by TexasChic on September 7, 2004, at 17:39:48
Posted by SLS on September 7, 2004, at 18:02:33
In reply to Re: But how do I fill my life with joy? » SLS, posted by Dinah on September 7, 2004, at 16:13:49
> G*d, Scott. I wish I could. I seem to have lost that ability right along with the ability to experience music. I can see the most perfect things and be as unmoved as if I were looking at a box.
I guess it is a lot easier said than done, especially when you are depressed. Of course, you do understand that it is almost impossible to readily feel such joy when you are in the midst of a biological depression. Do you suppose this might be what's going on with you? Take note that Octopusprime found it easier to be in contact with joy during those "couple of pretty good days in a row." Are you being aggressive enough with your biological treatment if you do indeed need any? (Just checking).
> What I'm pretty sure of, though, is that that hasn't been a constant state for me for over fifteen years. It *feels* that way right now, but I *know* it can't be so. It's distorted thinking. I know that.
It is not distorted thinking. It is muted feeling.
> I just deleted a huge chunk of post because it was ridiculously self pityingly and I can't abide myself when I'm like this.
You have some nerve not being self-pitying in front of us!
:-)
> I'd be sorry I ever started this self pitying thread, except that it *is* good to see other people sharing their joys.
> I'm sorry to be such a total wet squelchy blanket.
You are forgiven, dear. Just don't let it happen again...
...that you don't allow yourself the same needs as those you are always concentrating on helping.
See ya'.
Love,
Scott
Posted by Susan47 on September 7, 2004, at 22:05:48
In reply to Re: But how do I fill my life with joy? » SLS, posted by Dinah on September 7, 2004, at 16:13:49
Makes me feel right at home!
Posted by daisym on September 7, 2004, at 22:17:36
In reply to Re: But how do I fill my life with joy? » SLS, posted by Dinah on September 7, 2004, at 16:13:49
Maybe Harry Potter had it right...you need to eat chocolate to feel joy. :)
I know what you mean Dinah...I want my joy back too. I can remember it, see it in my mind. For me I see driving fast up the freeway, sky as blue as can be, huge hot air balloon drifting and knowing, KNOWING, that I can do ANYTHING! Absolute soul confidence that today I would make difference.
I really miss feeling like that.
Posted by Dinah on September 7, 2004, at 23:02:50
In reply to Re: But how do I fill my life with joy? » Dinah, posted by SLS on September 7, 2004, at 18:02:33
Posted by octopusprime on September 7, 2004, at 23:19:10
In reply to Re: But how do I fill my life with joy? » Dinah, posted by SLS on September 7, 2004, at 18:02:33
feeling joy is one of those things that is hard to do when you are coping with physical and emotional pain. i know you have trouble with headaches, etc ... if pain is not managed, and it recurs, it casts a pall on everything.
plus caregiving is such a heavy emotional burden to carry.
these are two burdens that i don't carry (i have my health and i am free of those nagging responsibilities ...) so for that i feel incredibly lucky.
i found a fascinating article on anhedonia, which is what you're describing:
http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/special_reports/depression/anhedonia.htm
it includes a quote, you're not alone:
"Her anhedonia took many forms and partly remains with her. She is still unable to gain pleasure from her own achievements and to see that her children are a credit to her as well as to themselves. She recalls the anhedonia of some of her darkest moments when she sat down to listen to Elgar's Enigma variations and found to her horror that she was left completely unmoved by the hauntingly beautiful music she had always loved. "be well ((dinah))
Posted by AuntieMel on September 8, 2004, at 12:16:24
In reply to Re: But how do I fill my life with joy?, posted by daisym on September 7, 2004, at 22:17:36
When I am down, gardening gives me joy. Not huge tiring projects, but sitting in an area, working the soil, trimming, weeding, planting. Until that one area is perfect.
Too bad it will be too hot here to that for several more weeks.
Posted by Dinah on September 8, 2004, at 16:19:20
In reply to for dinah:, posted by octopusprime on September 7, 2004, at 23:19:10
And anhedonia is probably what I'm experiencing. I blame it on the Luvox, but I stopped Luvox years ago, and I should have my feelings back by now. To be truthful, I think last Christmas I felt a few Christmasy feelings. I was really hopeful. But then my mood dipped again.
It's hard to tell how long it's been going on though. Whenever I'm in any given emotional state, it feels like I've been in it forever and always will be in it. But intellectually I know that isn't likely to be true.
Posted by Dinah on September 8, 2004, at 16:21:21
In reply to Re: But how do I fill my life with joy?, posted by AuntieMel on September 8, 2004, at 12:16:24
I used to love gardening, and had a cottage garden with plants designed for maximum flowering. But I haven't had any enthusiasm for years. We keep reducing the size of it, and my current goal is to dig up whatever plants remain and have grass all the way to the house.
This is the end of the thread.
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