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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Saltmarsh Rose on March 27, 2004, at 11:32:43
i have always had feelings of depersonalization and now am wondering if its my meds or some disorder like Aspergers.
i can't reach out to people any more and have no friends, live in my own world, i go to work, then go shopping and charge on my cc's, see my therapist and psychiatrist and that's it.
i'm bipolar with anxiety and some paranoia. my doctor has just added Seroquel(gave me samples) to help me sleep and i suspect gain weight, i have been on Li, Lamictal for many years, gabapentin, trazadone past 12-18 months.
i feel like a walking pharma commercial and its so hard to open up about this stuff so i just feel invisible at times. i feel my emotions are there but not like other people, can't FEEL anything, except for a temporray high when shopping, it also has affected my interest in other pleasurable stuff, i don't eat anything i just go shopping and then in the car driving home will eat a zone bar.
pleesse help me does anyone ever feel this way? please don't say to cut up the cards thats not the answer, i'm not in debt i'm just blowing any money that could be put to good use or saved.
Posted by zeugma on March 27, 2004, at 17:41:42
In reply to Asperger's-like feelings, is this DP or meds, posted by Saltmarsh Rose on March 27, 2004, at 11:32:43
I feel very isolated because of my psychiatric conditions. At the same time I don't feel like I can 'get over them' because I have had them all my life and can't imagine a life spent feeling normal. I keep people at a distance, and this makes weekends very hard for me, because even though I might want to socialize sometimes my anxiety and lack of energy interfere with anything I plan.
And I don't feel like I have anything inside me. I feel completely empty inside. When I mentioned Asperger's to my therapist, she laughed and told me I didn't have that. But the emptiness, yes. The meds allow me to function, but they drain me of everything in the process.
I get very depressed on vacations and on weekends. I feel depersonalized, in that I feel like I don't matter at all, even to myself. I am doing everything I can this weekend to avoid becoming depressed. Listening to music, reading, organizing my kitchen table. A friend called me up and said he wanted to hang out but I didn't want to because it exhausts me to be around people and I have to make sure I am asleep early so I don't get depressed by missing any sleep (I am very sensitive to any lack of sleep, and it throws my mood off terribly). I feel like a worthless human being.
Posted by Saltmarsh Rose on March 27, 2004, at 20:15:59
In reply to Re: Asperger's-like feelings, is this DP or meds, posted by zeugma on March 27, 2004, at 17:41:42
i was alone all day and i tried on my new clothes for hours. i buy two sizes of one item like a shirt or pants and try them on over and over, one after the other. i had no music on all day, no TV. why would anyone rather be alone doing this at home than being a part of the human race? its just that people do exhaust me as well, i'm always anticipating the dreaded staement "you are so quiet". i so hate that but i can't connect with people so superficially, i need to know their background and figure out what makes them tick.
i'm going to ask my therapist about Asperger's, but he already said that i don't have avoidant personality disorder or another similar one. my relationships with people in general are either A.They think i'm a doormat and try to take advantage of me or B.they think i'm a snob because i don't talk or engage in meaningless banter with them.
Posted by zeugma on March 28, 2004, at 11:04:35
In reply to Re: Asperger's-like feelings, is this DP or meds, posted by Saltmarsh Rose on March 27, 2004, at 20:15:59
those characteristics sound like avoidant personality disorder to me (my therapist concurred on my self-diagnosis with this one) but I think it's all a part of 'autistic spectrum disorders.' A lot of my friends don't understand my need to isolate, and I have realized that they enjoy socializing because they're not constantly overwhelmed with 'inner disorder.' They can look at things a little more casually because they have less agitation. I seem to need a tremendous amount of time waiting for my agitation to go down before I feel like I've returned to what passes for 'normal' for me, after a social interaction.
People tend to find me either aloof and reserved, or abjectly anxious (that's how I am around people when i first meet them). Klonopin helps a little with the anxiety but not to the point where I don't dread casual social interaction. I am taking my therapist's advice and reading a lot of literature and listening to music: It doesn't calm me down, really (I have to get up every couple of minutes and pace, plus i clap my hands in a really weird way which makes me sure that I have some kind of CNS disturbance not too far from autism) but it at least gives me something else to think about and I am less depressed so far this weekend than i have been in the past. But I feel like at any moment I could be overwhelmed with the depressive thoughts.
Posted by Dinah on March 30, 2004, at 10:09:13
In reply to Re: Asperger's-like feelings, is this DP or meds, posted by zeugma on March 28, 2004, at 11:04:35
I've got some of the physical signs of a mild CNS disturbance myself. I looked into Asperger's but I think I'm a bit further down the spectrum than that even. I toe walk, and rock, and a few other things that I don't now recall. I find social rhythm impossible to comprehend and social interaction unbearably overstimulating, even if I've enjoyed myself.
I think I've "solved" the problem by keeping my interaction with others to a minimum. That's hard to do though when you have a kid, and need to go to all the mom-type events.
Posted by jane d on March 30, 2004, at 12:31:33
In reply to Re: Asperger's-like feelings, is this DP or meds » zeugma, posted by Dinah on March 30, 2004, at 10:09:13
> I think I've "solved" the problem by keeping my interaction with others to a minimum. That's hard to do though when you have a kid, and need to go to all the mom-type events.
Dinah,
Just think how envious all his friends will be when they are teenagers and their mothers are still insisting on hanging around all the time and embarassing them. I bet they all end up hanging out at your house. Oh dear. That's not so good either.
Jane
Posted by Dinah on March 30, 2004, at 16:53:22
In reply to Re: Asperger's-like feelings, is this DP or meds » Dinah, posted by jane d on March 30, 2004, at 12:31:33
Posted by zeugma on March 30, 2004, at 20:51:04
In reply to Re: Asperger's-like feelings, is this DP or meds » zeugma, posted by Dinah on March 30, 2004, at 10:09:13
I can't imagine being a parent. I'm in my mid 30's, and many years ago I made up my mind never to reproduce because I didn't want to pass my shaky genes on to anyone else. Not to mention, my social skills were so stunted that opportunities for reproduction had been (and still are) few and far between.
On a more positive note, while my CNS is still dysfunctional, my IBS has been improving lately, thanks to a regimen of acidophilus, Citrucel, and chewable vitamins. I seem to actually be gaining weight for the first time since I went on Strattera last May (I am under medical orders to gain weight, and weight loss has always been the main reason i have had to drop meds in the past). Oh, and I remember, you and KellyD were great advocates for klonopin when I was going through constant anxiety crises during an abortive attempt at CBT. I'm taking .5 mg in the am and I'm still anxious, but not quite a dictionary definition of anxious (as an old friend once described me).
And I'm glad you responded to my post, it made me feel less imprisoned in the autistic spectrum isolation chamber :)
Posted by Dinah on March 30, 2004, at 20:57:38
In reply to from CNS to IBS » Dinah, posted by zeugma on March 30, 2004, at 20:51:04
I'm glad you found relief from IBS. I find it still plagues me, particularly when I'm under stress. And it's worse on the glucophage I have to take. I can't even look at greasy foods now. :(
I'll keep your regimen in mind. Acidophilus and Citrucel.
Posted by jane d on March 31, 2004, at 14:29:33
In reply to from CNS to IBS » Dinah, posted by zeugma on March 30, 2004, at 20:51:04
> And I'm glad you responded to my post, it made me feel less imprisoned in the autistic spectrum isolation chamber :)
Zeugma,
Don't forget that the idea of the spectrum is not just a range from autistic to aspergers and PDD-NOS. It really runs all the way from autism thru slightly odd to normal and out the other side again. You may be absolutely right that this is the explanation for your symptoms but I'd also give some weight to your therapists response. Many of us can find some of ourselves in those DSM descriptions.
Jane
Posted by ramsea on April 1, 2004, at 5:08:23
In reply to Re: autistic spectrum » zeugma, posted by jane d on March 31, 2004, at 14:29:33
Funny what you said anout when the kids are grown they'll all want to hang out at the withdrawn mom's house. That's my situation. I have Bipolar1, ADD and I believe myself to be some form of autism--it fits too well, my dad has it, one brother and sister have been touched by it, and one of my children. But my teenage daughter is elegantly social, poised, smart in her interactions and popular. My husband is a real social phobic (I am not social phobic, but am a strange, erratic form of social, seeking isolation because it feels good)---ANYWAY---we have no idea how she turned out like this.
In her family of 4, 3 of us have severe, handicap socializing issues. But she's a smooth, decent, intelligent girl with just enough quirkiness to add spark to her art and music. Long story short---there's a group of 17 kids in the same "school gang"--nice kids--and one or another of them is always about the place, and at weekends or after a gig we sometimes have the whole lot piling through, with 6-10 of them sleeping over in our attic. I keep a Big Eye on it all, there's only smoking in the backyard (if I said no smoking they might secretly smoke which could lead to fire ) and so far it's been good. A lot of kids live far from city center so I feel good to keep some of them from too much night wandering, hitching with strangers, etc. Also, when some of them seem to have taken something like booze or whatever, I would be happier they are in my house, because they are safe with us.
Truth or Dare: Truth. I have to take great care of emotions (mine) when they are about. It's a job to me, so I do it. I wear earplugs. I leave the house for long periods and walk in the woods or go to a film. I take extra sleeping tablets, knowing my partner sleeps light. Basically I like no one in the house but me/partner/kids. And I love being here all alone too. But I think it is an honor to have these lovely teenagers feel they have a place to pop into, and sometimes they need money for a bus or phone, or just a bite to eat.
I know my daughter plans to move off in a year and my son has already, so really I am doing a saintly number here because all these people can be very distressing and upsetting, just because they are there. But when it is all quiet I am sure I will look back and feel good about this decision to let kids drop-by pretty freely. But I can't lie and say it is anything but quietly extremely stressful.
I am so happy to meet others who struggle with the autism diagnosis.I tried to see an expert but he put me off and I still fee humiliated and wronged. Thank you for reading this, though I seem incapable of making friends it is my hope that someday I will make one who understands the neurological conditions I deal with, and the bipolar. I can be a generous and non-judgemental person, but I seem to get something important wrong.
Oh well. My dog is bafing in the corner and I'd better go clean it up. Bye for now!
Posted by spoc on April 1, 2004, at 23:53:39
In reply to Re: autistic spectrum, posted by ramsea on April 1, 2004, at 5:08:23
Hi everyone,
I have never gotten much help or info for my issues, whatever they are (!). Does the following sound like an Asperger's/spectrum thing? I can relate so much to what you describe, Ramsea. Especially about somehow just being more at peace when alone/in your comfort zone, rather than feeling a phobia. I too come from a 4 person family where 3 have social issues, one very, very much so. The fourth, supposedly unaffected one is me, but it hasn't been genuine. If they would look at my childhood and teen years they'd see that, but in subsequent years I became so good at fighting my nature that I guess I fooled even them. Now they find it hard to believe that I too am "sequestering." I moved from home to another state when pretty young and managed for awhile to be a chameleon in hiding my true desire to be alone A LOT. I could pull it together for weekends only but I could get away with that and just look responsible.
So as a single person all my life I pushed myself sporadically to fight it, and over the last decade became even too good at it. *Because,* it took every ounce of every kind of energy within me to keep my head in that place, which wasn't natural for me. I fought myself because I kept thinking it's just too much of a dirty rotten shame. I have so many blessings and when I am able to keep up with "normal" levels of interacting, I do see that as far as relationships in general, I could get out of my life all of the things that most people find important. But even when I have been in a period where I am able to force myself to be relatively involved, in between outings I *always* have that drive to get alone again ASAP. To regroup and recharge. I'd let *nothing* stand in the way of that. Sometimes even when I was *out* and having a pretty good time, I'd have to find a reasonably empty bathroom or leave to go to a store -- just *HAD TO* have a few minutes alone. But NOT "scared," unhappy or mad; just HAD TO get away!!! As if I'd jump out of my skin if I didn't. Staying involved in an active singles life in a big, interconnected city with highly social friends takes so much effort for me that all else in my life will get neglected, and it comes about as naturally as standing around with one leg in the air.
But I have had good romantic relationships since I became adept at spotting the only kinds of personalities that I can hope to really let in. I do develop a comfort level beyond what I would have believed was possible, but it is never at a "normal" level to them, and I always end up "being the guy." Unable to commit to many plans or to spending a lot of time together and "going forward." Even if a boyfriend (or friend for that matter) reduces his hopes down to just renting a movie with me instead of going out, sometimes I just can't let him in. Whereas the night before or even that morning we may have had a fabulous time and really bonded; and I may be deliriously happy just remembering it but that is enough to last me for days! I CAN'T LET HIM COME BACK YET, even though I know it can't be enough for him and I may lose him. I always thought my ideal permanent relationship -- and my only chance -- would be in a "date forever" rather than move-in-together scenario. I can definitely commit to one person and feel very close to him, and wouldn't be with someone who still saw others. But what I can handle just isn't what most people are ultimately looking for in a relationship. Should I just make peace with this??
Although now that I haven't been in a relationship in awhile, it's hard to remember or believe I was able to ever be comfortable at all, I think maybe I could have even gotten beyond this and lived with someone. But about a year and a half ago I started giving in to my true nature and letting that leg down that had been up in the air for so long. I work at home and was progressively *able* to shut myself off more and more (and I *do* wonder if that accelerated things that otherwise may have remained manageable!!!). I became less and less able to swim upstream anymore, and stopped forcing myself to accommodate friends who wanted to go out. This worries me at times because there's no way anything is gonna stumble into me in my apartment to get me involved again and I'm "too old" to give up this time to being alone if there's any chance I can at least find one special person to get used to, just one more time. But that's just "intellectualizing" from what other people like and from some very very good memories -- because I am not and never have been lonely! I do not know what loneliness feels like!!! (Unless it's coming out in things like my OCD-like issues and eating problems instead...)
Ramsea, you say the following, and maybe I should apply the same logic to me trying to stay involved enough that I have a chance of ending up with a partner someday. Which, according to most, is better (and I know that since I packed it all in, I am not taking care of my health or appearance like I used to, which is never good).: "..But when it is all quiet I am sure I will look back and feel good about this decision to let kids drop-by pretty freely. But I can't lie and say it is anything but quietly extremely stressful..."
But aside from fear of regrets I can't deny that I am strangely content much of the time when alone here. I am no longer even mysterious or creative about explaining myself; I've pretty much made it official that I enjoy what I enjoy for whatever reason, don't ask beyond that, especially if you expect to talk me into something. With every hook I find a way to permanently let myself off of -- one less scheduling obligation or person to give explanations to -- I am THRILLED, like summer break just began or I just got my first apartment. And in my heart I have not looked back, only made myself unhappy at times through intellectualizing about it.
Over this last 1.5 years, I have had -- and may continue to have -- a few days here and there where I can get myself out around people, but some permanent change or acceptance seems to have set in. Then I tell myself no, it's fatigue and depression talking, I can rally for a good spell again...Although I really just don't know where the lines are drawn anymore, I do know that it has always been easier for me to be alone than not to. I still have a "rich phone life" talking to and supporting friends, and am told I give a lot to them that way. But even that I have to space out and can't always do. Again, not a phobia, and not necessarily a mood either. I just can't make a connection sometimes and at those times it will show if I try. Then I may indeed *begin* to sound like something's wrong, because I just...CAN'T turn my focus from inward to outward and I get frustrated!
Ramsea, you also say: "..it is my hope that someday I will make (a friend) who understands the neurological conditions I deal with... I can be a generous and non-judgmental person..." AMEN, I am so with you here. There are only a few people I feel close to that way, and I have mostly banished them to the phone lines these days. But still, they have proven to me (where I long doubted it) that they get a lot from our friendship anyway, even just in the "quality" of the talks we have and the insights we share at times. And they do wish very much that we could get together more, but if not, they still want to be a part of my life in some way. I wish all this for you too because non-judgmental yet caring is a wonderful combination and you can bring a lot of happiness without ever fitting the standard mold.
Anyway, not looking for a diagnosis here but insights would be hugely appreciated. This spectrum thing is brand new to me. Never heard of it until very recently. Does my saga fit with Asperger's? *SO* sorry for the ramble!
--------
> Funny what you said anout when the kids are grown they'll all want to hang out at the withdrawn mom's house. That's my situation. I have Bipolar1, ADD and I believe myself to be some form of autism--it fits too well, my dad has it, one brother and sister have been touched by it, and one of my children. But my teenage daughter is elegantly social, poised, smart in her interactions and popular...
>
> > Truth or Dare: Truth. I have to take great care of emotions (mine) when they are about. It's a job to me, so I do it. I wear earplugs. I leave the house for long periods and walk in the woods or go to a film. I take extra sleeping tablets, knowing my partner sleeps light. Basically I like no one in the house but me/partner/kids. And I love being here all alone too.
>
> I know my daughter plans to move off in a year and my son has already, so really I am doing a saintly number here because all these people can be very distressing and upsetting, just because they are there. But when it is all quiet I am sure I will look back and feel good about this decision to let kids drop-by pretty freely. But I can't lie and say it is anything but quietly extremely stressful.> I am so happy to meet others who struggle with the autism diagnosis.
>
> I tried to see an expert but he put me off and I still fee humiliated and wronged. Thank you for reading this, though I seem incapable of making friends it is my hope that someday I will make one who understands the neurological conditions I deal with, and the bipolar. I can be a generous and non-judgemental person, but I seem to get something important wrong.
>
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