![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Susan J on November 11, 2003, at 11:23:59
A couple of friends had to point out to me that, way down in the middle of some e-mail diatribe crap, you said you don't want me posting to you. For future reference, please put that somewhere I can see. I don't generally read posts like that. Too histrionic for my taste.
WTF? I had HAD some serious empathy for you -- about your weight problems and such, that I too could identify with -- and even admiration for your initial coming clean about posting under two names.
So the only thing I can think of that's annoying you about me, is my question about the Dr. Phil show. But you opened the door on that one on the Admin board, saying you had applied to be on his show. And as someone who tapes Dr. Phil religiously, I genuinely was interested in what you were doing.
But, whatever. I used to have a lot of empathy for you. Thought you were going through a lot of pain, and I don't like to see anyone in pain. But I have no respect for someone who allows their pain to bring down others, and you're just stirring up as much sh** on this board as you can, just trying to inflame and hurt others. This place *was* supportive during your *dead* week, until you showed up again. And now the whole damned place is ALL ABOUT YOU.
Don't worry about telling me not to post to you, because I never will again. I have no empathy for you any longer, just plain, unadulterated pity. You need help.
Posted by justyourlaugh on November 11, 2003, at 12:19:30
In reply to Gal, You Are A Real Piece of Work, posted by Susan J on November 11, 2003, at 11:23:59
ahh sue ,,you are going to get "blocked":(
treat the situation like a virus...
wash your hands alot(step back from time to time)
cover your mouth when coughing(watch what you say)
avoid the "openly ill"(stay clear off trolls)
and lots of drink(strawberry daquiries are nice)
:)
be good susan
be good to susan
j
Posted by Susan J on November 11, 2003, at 12:23:02
In reply to Re: Gal, You Are A Real Piece of Work, posted by justyourlaugh on November 11, 2003, at 12:19:30
Hi, JYL,
I know I'm going to get blocked. :-) I'm surprised I'm not already blocked. ??
I took the idea of this post into full consideration, and have made my choice. This *is* washing my hands of it. And I can take the consequences of my actions.
But thank you. :-) Take care,
Susan
Posted by galkeepinon on November 11, 2003, at 12:30:51
In reply to Gal, You Are A Real Piece of Work, posted by Susan J on November 11, 2003, at 11:23:59
>>>>A couple of friends had to point out to me that, way down in the middle of some e-mail diatribe crap, you said you don't want me posting to you.
EXACTLY, in law you should know that one is guilty by association. In ALL due respect AND CIVILITY, I simply don't trust you.And please be civil, how would you feel if anyone said what you said to me right here?
I'm not going into details about why I'm going to be on the Dr. Phil show, I don't think it is important as to why, that's why I didn't answer you AND I only brought it up because the topic was 'guests' and I think he would have a field day working with us all.
And if you had empathy, I feel you would be supporting me more on this board, so I don't believe you, sorry.>>>>>>Thought you were going through a lot of pain,
well, you thought right, if you only knew...>>>>>>But I have no respect for someone who allows their pain to bring down others,
and others haven't allowed their pain to bring me down?
>>>>>>and you're just stirring up as much sh** on this board as you can, just trying to inflame and hurt others.
oh really, I think I'm the one here who is neing hurt NOW also, Larry asked if I wanted emails to be made public, I hardly call that stirring up ****, maybe you should consider the real source regarding that.
>>>>>>This place *was* supportive during your *dead* week, until you showed up again. And now the whole damned place is ALL ABOUT YOU.
oh really. From what I saw, during my *dead* week, the same few folks who have caused me slander, defamation, libel, and hurt didn't change.
>>>>>Don't worry about telling me not to post to you, because I never will again.
That's your choice.
>>>>>I have no empathy for you any longer, just plain, unadulterated pity. You need help.
Thanks for sharing, that was very CIVIL :-)
Best wishes.I'm D O N E posting on Social as it is too histrionic for my taste.
If anyone wants to discuss anything with me, email me, I'm not responding anymore to those who have so made this all about them, not me.And please remember what this board is really for!
Posted by Medusa on November 11, 2003, at 12:33:30
In reply to Gal, You Are A Real Piece of Work, posted by Susan J on November 11, 2003, at 11:23:59
> some e-mail diatribe crap
Could you phrase this as an active I statement?
> Too histrionic for my taste.This could be confused with a diagnosis. Is that your intent? If so, is it intended as constructive feedback? Dr. Bob has said "It's also fine to ask others for feedback. And for others to provide it -- as long as it's constructive." But unsolicited on-line diagnoses could lead someone to feel accused. The diagnos-ee could well have something similar, and an "off" diagnosis could put him/her on the wrong track. For example, Histrionic Personality Disorder is sometimes difficult to distinguish from Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Such confusion could be non-constructive.
Posted by Susan J on November 11, 2003, at 12:46:28
In reply to Re: Gal, You Are A Real » Susan J, posted by Medusa on November 11, 2003, at 12:33:30
Thank you, Medusa, for the opportunity to clarify. My apologies for my inadvertent obfuscation.
> > some e-mail diatribe crap
>
> Could you phrase this as an active I statement?<<I actively think it's a bunch of e-mail diatribe crap.
> > Too histrionic for my taste.
>
> This could be confused with a diagnosis. Is that your intent? If so, is it intended as constructive feedback? Dr. Bob has said "It's also fine to ask others for feedback. And for others to provide it -- as long as it's constructive." But unsolicited on-line diagnoses could lead someone to feel accused. The diagnos-ee could well have something similar, and an "off" diagnosis could put him/her on the wrong track. For example, Histrionic Personality Disorder is sometimes difficult to distinguish from Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Such confusion could be non-constructive.
<<I apologize again, Medusa. It was merely an opinion, not a diagnosis. The mere posting of those e-mails struck me as deliberately affected, and as such, it's not a post I generally would read. So it puzzled me that I was addressed in it, espeically since I didn't have anything to do with those e-mails.And it wasn't meant to be constructive feedback.
It was a statement that attempted to express my contempt for the tone of the post at hand.Susan
Posted by NikkiT2 on November 11, 2003, at 13:07:41
In reply to Re: Gal, You Are A Real » Medusa, posted by Susan J on November 11, 2003, at 12:46:28
It was awesome.. the UK's leading Personality Disorder Experts (and ME!!!) giving really interesting papers. I had lunch with them and spoke to them at length.
I never knew much about Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Did you know that the largest proportion of NPD sufferers in prison here are there for homocide!! And for BPD its arson! *l*
I learnt so much today *s*
Nikki
Posted by Susan J on November 11, 2003, at 13:16:30
In reply to I went to a personality Disorder Conference today!, posted by NikkiT2 on November 11, 2003, at 13:07:41
> It was awesome.. the UK's leading Personality Disorder Experts (and ME!!!) giving really interesting papers. I had lunch with them and spoke to them at length.
>
> I never knew much about Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Did you know that the largest proportion of NPD sufferers in prison here are there for homocide!! And for BPD its arson! *l*
>
> I learnt so much today *s*
>
> Nikki<<Very cool! I almost posted the diagnostic criteria for NPD vs. Histrionic Personality Disorder, but thought, well, better not. But if anyone's interested, it's at:
www.mentalhealth.com
Ciao,
Susan
>
Posted by Medusa on November 11, 2003, at 13:19:22
In reply to I went to a personality Disorder Conference today!, posted by NikkiT2 on November 11, 2003, at 13:07:41
> It was awesome.. the UK's leading Personality Disorder Experts
So Nikki, how do you differentiate between Histrionic PD and Narcissistic PD? I'm pretty sure my MIL is the latter, but I'm really confused.
Posted by NikkiT2 on November 11, 2003, at 13:45:22
In reply to Re: I went to a personality Disorder Conference today! » NikkiT2, posted by Medusa on November 11, 2003, at 13:19:22
Hi Medusa,
This really is my huge area of interest, so I'm really pleased to be able to help you out here.
Personality Disorders are split into three sections.. these are
Cluster A: Odd or eccentric behavior
Cluster B: Dramatic, emotional or erratic behavior
Cluster C: Anxious fearful behaviorHistrionic PD is in Cluster B, and narcissistic
PD is also a cluster B, as can be expected. BPD is also cluster B.The European Diagnostic Guidelines are this;
Narcissistic Personality Disorder
a) markedly dysharmonious attitudes and behaviour, involving usually several areas of functioning, e.g. affectivity, arousal, impulse control, ways of perceiving and thinking, and style of relating to others;
(b) the abnormal behaviour pattern is enduring, of long standing, and not limited to episodes of mental illness;
(c) the abnormal behaviour pattern is pervasive and clearly maladaptive to a broad range of personal and social situations;
(d) the above manifestations always appear during childhood or adolescence and continue into adulthood;
(e) the disorder leads to considerable personal distress but this may only become apparent late in its course;
(f) the disorder is usually, but not invariably, associated with significant problems in occupational and social performance.Histrionic Personality Disorder
(a) markedly dysharmonious attitudes and behaviour, involving usually several areas of functioning, e.g. affectivity, arousal, impulse control, ways of perceiving and thinking, and style of relating to others;
(b) the abnormal behaviour pattern is enduring, of long standing, and not limited to episodes of mental illness;
(c) the abnormal behaviour pattern is pervasive and clearly maladaptive to a broad range of personal and social situations;
(d) the above manifestations always appear during childhood or adolescence and continue into adulthood;
(e) the disorder leads to considerable personal distress but this may only become apparent late in its course;
(f) the disorder is usually, but not invariably, associated with significant problems in occupational and social performance.The American Criteria are a bit more defined than these..
Narcissistic Personality Disorder
has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
requires excessive admiration
has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudesHistrionic Personality Disorder
is uncomfortable in situations in which he or she is not the center of attention
interaction with others is often characterized by inappropriate sexually seductive or provocative behavior
displays rapidly shifting and shallow expression of emotions
consistently uses physical appearance to draw attention to self
has a style of speech that is excessively impressionistic and lacking in detail
shows self-dramatization, theatricality, and exaggerated expression of emotion
is suggestible, i.e., easily influenced by others or circumstances
considers relationships to be more intimate than they actually areSo, reading these.. If I went just by the European critera, it would be very hard to tell them apart. But the American descriptions do make it alot clearer.
I hope this makes things a little clearer for you. *smiles*
Nikki x
Posted by NikkiT2 on November 11, 2003, at 14:14:57
In reply to Re: I went to a personality Disorder Conference today!, posted by NikkiT2 on November 11, 2003, at 13:45:22
Posted by Medusa on November 11, 2003, at 14:17:14
In reply to Re: I went to a personality Disorder Conference today!, posted by NikkiT2 on November 11, 2003, at 13:45:22
> Cluster A: Odd or eccentric behavior
> Cluster B: Dramatic, emotional or erratic behavior
> Cluster C: Anxious fearful behaviorMind if I ask what some examples of these are?
> Narcissistic Personality Disorder
Let's look at MIL:
> has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
>Yes, yes, and yes.
> is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
>Yes to all. She even gets a special glazed look in her eyes when she's focusing on a specific fantasy.
> believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
>Oh yes, because of her influential family and their history and her husband's position (?!). Once when I was dating DH, I was with her alone and she was telling me about some party she was invited to, "because I'm an important person in this town." DH didn't believe she'd actually said that, and said if she had, she must have been joking. She most assuredly was NOT joking.
> requires excessive admirationI should remain silent on this one, since many MILs and DILs disagree on what level of admiration would be appropriate ...
> has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
Oh dear, is there a picture next to this? She truly had no idea how to behave when she saw that I wasn't going to do as she said.
> is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
>Including her kids.
> lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
>This is my main point of irritation. I could laugh at the rest if there was even a wee bit of empathy in the woman.
> is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
>Dear lord.
> shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudesyou can stop already ...
> Histrionic Personality Disorder
Well, thank goodness MIL is not a sexual predator.
> I hope this makes things a little clearer for you. *smiles*
>Thanks so much Nikki! I look forward to learning more.
Posted by anks on November 11, 2003, at 17:51:47
In reply to Gal, You Are A Real Piece of Work, posted by Susan J on November 11, 2003, at 11:23:59
> A couple of friends had to point out to me that, way down in the middle of some e-mail diatribe crap, you said you don't want me posting to you. For future reference, please put that somewhere I can see. I don't generally read posts like that. Too histrionic for my taste.
>
> WTF? I had HAD some serious empathy for you -- about your weight problems and such, that I too could identify with -- and even admiration for your initial coming clean about posting under two names.
>
> So the only thing I can think of that's annoying you about me, is my question about the Dr. Phil show. But you opened the door on that one on the Admin board, saying you had applied to be on his show. And as someone who tapes Dr. Phil religiously, I genuinely was interested in what you were doing.
>
> But, whatever. I used to have a lot of empathy for you. Thought you were going through a lot of pain, and I don't like to see anyone in pain. But I have no respect for someone who allows their pain to bring down others, and you're just stirring up as much sh** on this board as you can, just trying to inflame and hurt others. This place *was* supportive during your *dead* week, until you showed up again. And now the whole damned place is ALL ABOUT YOU.
>
> Don't worry about telling me not to post to you, because I never will again. I have no empathy for you any longer, just plain, unadulterated pity. You need help.
> Ive just got onto all of this so i dont know who or what your post refers to, but i wanted to ask about the weight issues, My game started with anorexia five years ago, i have also had bulimia, but for the past few years it is just the binging that im battling with. I suffer with depression and anxiety, and isolate myself alot, avoiding family and friends because i cant bear the thought of them seeing me, just feel discusted. Im currently the heaviest ive been, 66kg, 159cm, and not coping as well as i would like to be. I know that to some people this obession with weight and allowing it to control so much of my life seems selfish and pathetic, and it is, but i guess its about more then weight and other peoples approval, and if i knew how to free myself, i would. Anyhow, id like to hear your story. Enjoy.
>
Posted by Medusa on November 12, 2003, at 0:35:04
In reply to Re: Gal, You Are A Real Piece of Work » Susan J, posted by anks on November 11, 2003, at 17:51:47
> > avoiding family and friends because i cant bear the thought of them seeing me, just feel discusted.
I've been there, hon. Oh, have I.
The most effective thing for me was coming at it "backwards". Not trying to change my body any more, rather working on the disgust. Getting rid of the scale. Finding comfortable clothes that fit and are in colors I liked. Eating wonderful foods I enjoyed rather than feeling guilty, and trying to eat foods I didn't like. Oddly, the better I got to feel about my body as it was, the quickly it changed. These days, if a pair of pants starts to feel tight, it means I don't have the kitchen sufficiently stocked with foods I like.
Here's a link to some books that really helped me:
http://half.ebay.com/search/search.jsp?nthTime=1&product=books&keyword=Hirschmann&x=9&y=10
(try copy and paste)> >I know that to some people this obession with weight and allowing it to control so much of my life seems selfish and pathetic,
No it's *not*. It's not about food, it's not about your weight. It's about big stuff, and it's not "selfish and pathetic" of you to address it!
In case my link attempt doesn't work, here are the authors' names and the titles:
Jane Hirschmann and Carol Munter wrote:
_When Women Stop Hating Their Bodies: Freeing Yourself from Food and Weight Obsession
and
_Overcoming Overeating
Jane Hirschmann and Lela Zaphiropoulos wrote:_Preventing Childhood Eating Problems
which could be really helpful (and painful) in learning about the anti-diet approach. It's written for parents, but you probably have to "re-parent" yourself in this respect. I found it really useful in dealing with the messages I got about food as a child. I tried to give the book to my mother (have young sibs still at home), but she dismissed it - she prefers to keep fighting with her kids over their bodies and what they eat. Last night I was talking to a brother who's since moved out, and it turns out he pulled the book out of the trash and found a lot of healing in it.
Well I really jumped in there, hope this isn't too off base here and that Susan doesn't mind me posting first in response to a post directed to her ...
Posted by Dinah on November 12, 2003, at 1:05:12
In reply to I went to a personality Disorder Conference today!, posted by NikkiT2 on November 11, 2003, at 13:07:41
Nikki, how did you find the attitudes of the mental health professionals are towards the personality disorders? I keep hoping things are changing for the better, and soon it won't be necessary to be ashamed of them.
I know that with Borderline Personality Disorder, they're really coming up with some evidence to show that it has a physical basis, right?
I've never really been happy with the diagnoses either. It seems that there is a fair amount of overlap. If you're really introverted, you're halfway there on a number of disorders. I've always identified internally with Borderline Personality Disorder. Affective instability with easy arousal and slow return to baseline. But I'm typically seen by others (in person) as being in the odd cluster, schizoid or schizotypal, or avoidant, depending on who is diagnosing. Which all seems a bit odd to me.
What was your overall impression of the state of the profession in the area?
I'm sooo excited for you. I'd love to be able to do that sort of thing. Or I would, if it didn't involve actually doing it. :) I really think what you're doing is terrific. I'll bet your old CBT therapist (the one you said helped you so much) would be busting her buttons with pride. And so should you be.
Posted by Elle2021 on November 12, 2003, at 1:15:11
In reply to I went to a personality Disorder Conference today!, posted by NikkiT2 on November 11, 2003, at 13:07:41
>And for BPD its arson!
I read that BPD's make up 46% of the stalkers in prison in America.
Funny though, I have BPD and I have *never* stalked someone and would *never* think of starting a fire on purpose.
Elle
Posted by Tabitha on November 12, 2003, at 1:28:35
In reply to Re: I went to a personality Disorder Conference today! » NikkiT2, posted by Elle2021 on November 12, 2003, at 1:15:11
> >And for BPD its arson!
>
> I read that BPD's make up 46% of the stalkers in prison in America.
>
> Funny though, I have BPD and I have *never* stalked someone and would *never* think of starting a fire on purpose.
> ElleKnowing that 46% of imprisoned stalkers are BPD doesn't tell you anything about the percentage of BPDs who are stalkers. It could be 90% or 0.01% for all we know.
Posted by Medusa on November 12, 2003, at 5:01:07
In reply to Re: I went to a personality Disorder Conference today!, posted by Tabitha on November 12, 2003, at 1:28:35
Posted by anks on November 12, 2003, at 20:52:31
In reply to Weight » anks, posted by Medusa on November 12, 2003, at 0:35:04
> > > avoiding family and friends because i cant bear the thought of them seeing me, just feel discusted.
>
> I've been there, hon. Oh, have I.
>
> The most effective thing for me was coming at it "backwards". Not trying to change my body any more, rather working on the disgust. Getting rid of the scale. Finding comfortable clothes that fit and are in colors I liked. Eating wonderful foods I enjoyed rather than feeling guilty, and trying to eat foods I didn't like. Oddly, the better I got to feel about my body as it was, the quickly it changed. These days, if a pair of pants starts to feel tight, it means I don't have the kitchen sufficiently stocked with foods I like.
>
> Here's a link to some books that really helped me:
>
> http://half.ebay.com/search/search.jsp?nthTime=1&product=books&keyword=Hirschmann&x=9&y=10
> (try copy and paste)
>
> > >I know that to some people this obession with weight and allowing it to control so much of my life seems selfish and pathetic,
>
> No it's *not*. It's not about food, it's not about your weight. It's about big stuff, and it's not "selfish and pathetic" of you to address it!
>
> In case my link attempt doesn't work, here are the authors' names and the titles:
>
> Jane Hirschmann and Carol Munter wrote:
>
> _When Women Stop Hating Their Bodies: Freeing Yourself from Food and Weight Obsession
>
> and
>
> _Overcoming Overeating
>
>
> Jane Hirschmann and Lela Zaphiropoulos wrote:
>
> _Preventing Childhood Eating Problems
>
> which could be really helpful (and painful) in learning about the anti-diet approach. It's written for parents, but you probably have to "re-parent" yourself in this respect. I found it really useful in dealing with the messages I got about food as a child. I tried to give the book to my mother (have young sibs still at home), but she dismissed it - she prefers to keep fighting with her kids over their bodies and what they eat. Last night I was talking to a brother who's since moved out, and it turns out he pulled the book out of the trash and found a lot of healing in it.
>
> Well I really jumped in there, hope this isn't too off base here and that Susan doesn't mind me posting first in response to a post directed to her ...
Thank you, sounds like you know this place well, why else would you read the books, think i have heard of the first one but the second i think is new to me, i have read a few, i will definately check them out. I feeling good toady and have a really busy weekend on, so i guess i feel somewhat safe at the moment. I have a party back where i lived at the beginning of the year and for three years prior to that on the 29/11, it is freaking me out a bit, some people i can handle better then others and this will be a mix. My family are against me going, scared i will spiral down afterwards, past experience suggests that this is highly likely, but he is a great friend, my best friend will also be there, and i'm sick of this non-living existence.Anyhow, i'll read your words over again and do my best to put them into practise, it's a great approach, hope i go well. Thank you, great to hear of people who have visited this place and left again, to many sad stories out that. Enjoy.
Posted by Elle2021 on November 13, 2003, at 1:12:23
In reply to AND adjust for gender, socioec. level etc (nm) » Tabitha, posted by Medusa on November 12, 2003, at 5:01:07
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 16, 2003, at 9:02:16
In reply to Gal, You Are A Real Piece of Work, posted by Susan J on November 11, 2003, at 11:23:59
> A couple of friends had to point out to me that, way down in the middle of some e-mail diatribe crap, you said you don't want me posting to you. For future reference, please put that somewhere I can see. I don't generally read posts like that. Too histrionic for my taste.
>
> I have no respect for someone who allows their pain to bring down others, and you're just stirring up as much sh** on this board as you can, just trying to inflame and hurt others. This place *was* supportive during your *dead* week, until you showed up again. And now the whole damned place is ALL ABOUT YOU.
>
> I have no empathy for you any longer, just plain, unadulterated pity. You need help.I agree, it may be an issue, where she posted her request, but if someone asks you not to post to them, please don't post to them. Also, please be sensitive to their feelings -- even if yours are hurt -- and don't jump to conclusions about them or post anything that could lead them to feel accused or put down. Thanks,
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 30, 2003, at 11:16:10
In reply to Re: Gal, You Are A Real Piece of Work » Susan J, posted by galkeepinon on November 11, 2003, at 12:30:51
> I simply don't trust you.
>
> the same few folks who have caused me slander, defamation, libel, and hurt didn't change.
>
> Social ... is too histrionic for my taste.I held off before, since people were hoping to hear from you, but I think I should go ahead now...
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down. Sorry, but the last time you were blocked it was for 16 weeks, so this time it's for 48. Best wishes,
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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