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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Temmie on August 30, 2003, at 12:13:54
Ack, it happened again. I met a man for a glass of wine last night, whom it turns out I'd actually crossed paths with some thirty-odd years earlier ... and too much "pre-date" talk over the phone about the music industry, and "The Seventies," etc., led to a false sense of camraderie -- and you know what? This guy didn't appeal to me at all.
I still haven't given up on Paul. I'm not tortured, torn, misguided, deluded, or anything -- I love and care for him -- but I'm also happy with things just as they are (with Paul some 1100 miles away, and both of us challenged by, and busy with serious tasks at hand).
I'm happy being alone.
I don't mean to portray myself as some kind of "American Beauty," but there is something about me people find appealing -- from Mr. Let-Me-Tell-You-What-I-Can-Do-For-You ... to others ... and I was uncomfortable -- after telling Rick that I was pulling my ad, because it no longer felt applicable -- I was uncomfortable, after that -- that my farewell hug wasn't enough and he planted a kiss on my lips.
Granted, it was a closed-mouth kiss -- but it was more than I wanted. And now he's emailed me not once, but twice ("If you ever change your mind," "If you'd like to reconsider," etc.)-- and dang it! -- this is the kind of attention that drove me into seclusion to begin with ....
I don't like feeling like a female dog in heat.
It's creepy.
I'm bummed. Fallsfall, I should enlist your editorial aid in drafting a reply to this guy.
I'm so looking forward to resuming the school year, continuing my work on myself, and living my life alone! If God wants to put someone in my path, He'll know where to find me (and whom to send).
Please let me know if any of you have had to deal with things like this, and how you brought them to a close.
Temmie
Posted by fallsfall on August 30, 2003, at 12:51:45
In reply to Personal Ads ...., posted by Temmie on August 30, 2003, at 12:13:54
These things really can be a problem. Sometimes is it really nice to just be alone.
Are you going to pull the personal ad, or would you date the right person if he came along? I would think that it would be really hard to weed out the bad ones without meeting them. I've only done a personal ad on the internet, and I met 2 reasonable people that way. For one we were supposed to meet in a group, but we were the only ones who came. I exchanged email with the other for a couple of months before we met.
What kinds of changes would be needed for you and Paul to get together?
I would be more than happy to help you with a letter, Temmie. You can post it here or send it to Babble Fallsfall at hotmail.com. Or you can see if he will give up on his own.
Sounds like he knows a good thing when he sees it!
Posted by Tabitha on August 30, 2003, at 14:05:35
In reply to Personal Ads ...., posted by Temmie on August 30, 2003, at 12:13:54
This guy is easy to shed. First, just don't return his calls or emails, ever. If he does manage to force a confrontation, just tell him you're very sorry but you're just not attracted to him.
Posted by temmie on August 30, 2003, at 14:19:53
In reply to Re: Personal Ads .... » Temmie, posted by fallsfall on August 30, 2003, at 12:51:45
Dear Fallsfall ~
Thank you! This was kind of a dumb thread to start, but I needed to vent -- and all discussion leads to more discussion -- and, yes. Maybe there's a thing or two I can learn here! For one, how do attractive women, especially attractive women coming from a background of child-sexual abuse -- avoid contact with men -- and all that creepy stuff that sometimes accompanies this -- this matter of men seeing their "beauty" or "features" as open-invitation to suggest way too much involvement/intimacy, etc. -- way too soon?
Did that make sense?
I've always been disconcerted, that since I look a certain way, men, like Mr. Here's-What-I-Can-Do-For-You think I'm "hot," and therefore -- "hot to trot." I don't dress sexy. Granted, my hair is long, instead of coifed like June Cleaver -- but honestly! Despite bawdy talk, I'm quite modest, and very shy, and my dress is tasteful and demure. (If that's how one might describe jeans and t-shirts with sandals or an occasional linen top.)
Before Paul, I hadn't been with anyone in 12 years. I mean, you know, naked, in bed ... and good grief -- it took days and days of just holding each other and talking, etc., before I felt comfortable ... getting undressed .... I think what made Paul so appealing to me was that -- number one -- I'd always loved him. He was just part of the periphery back in the 80s. One of the crew that would typically show up at different social events -- but I always enjoyed seeing him, in fact, looked forward to seeing him. He was such a sweetie. When you looked in his eyes, there was someone in there looking back. When we hugged hello (or goodbye), the energy was so sweet. I just ... plain ... loved him.
I got pregnant and relocated to the midwest. Paul went into rehab (yes, he's done this before) and began counseling prisoners in NYC. He lost touch with "The Crowd," and so did I -- until last summer, when talking with a different group of friends in the Adirondacks, when someone said, "Gee, if you know so-and-so -- you must know Paul." Turns out this man was seeing Paul later in the weekend, and I was so delighted to be able to have something to give him .... I wrote a beautiful (although it would have been better had you been there to copy-edit for me!), how-have-the-years-treated-you kind of letter. (And three months later he wrote back.)
[Hmmmm. I'd almost forgotten about that letter, and when it did come to mind, I just thought -- hmmmm. That he must have been in a place where he didn't feel comfortable or able to respond. Still, I was glad that I'd had the opportunity to say hello and thank you to one who had always been such a dear. And all this is a mute point, of course, because eventually he did write back, and that was in November of last year.]
We began to correspond via instant messenger, and at one point I mentioned something about being afraid ... about feeling vulnerable, that talking with him was stirring up powerful emotions, etc., too much/too soon, and that I was afraid of falling in love.
"How about we just love each other," he wrote back, "and not fall?"
Honestly, he was such a sweetie.
We shared ...
[Oh my God, I'm writing from the public library, and there's someone here dressed up like an elf. Cape with hood included. Oh my!}
... our philosophical ideas on life, love and parenting, etc. We talked about the kind parts, and the not-so-kind parts of things we'd been through. We talked about the awkward phase ... that sort of heart-stretching phase of feeling one's heart expand, and Paul wrote something from Gibran, about love "pounding and bleaching us to whiteness" as in the shaping of bread for sacred loaves.
He spoke with the words that touched my poet's heart -- and on top of that -- I already loved him. I'd loved him and wondered about him for 20 years. As a friend, yes, but as a friend who always wished she'd pursued something more .... (If only we hadn't both been otherwise involved.)
Eleven days later he was in my hometown. I was scared to death, but we worked it through. He was so gentle and sweet with me. So understanding. So patient.
So -- maybe he's taken root in such a deep way, because the love of him -- or the myth and the magic, or whatever it was -- had 20 years to grow. I don't know. I do know -- there's noone I can imagine kissing but Paul ... and noone I can imagine being intimate with .... And he's not particularly good-looking, by the way, but to me? He's charming.
Plus he's tall and skinny with dark hair and brown eyes .... Fallsfall and others -- do you find yourself drawn to certain "types" of men? (Or women, or whatever/whomever you prefer.) I'm a blonde, and I know there are men who love blondes .... I like tall skinny guys with dark hair.
I like Paul.
Am I going to pull my ad?
Absolutely.
Am I planning a future with Paul?
Only in the most dubious sense.
I have told him that I'm "dating." That I'm looking. After all, he suggested it. He said he already knew who he wanted. Me. That maybe I should look around a little more.
He frequently tells me that he can't believe I love him. That he feels like the luckiest man on the planet. That he doesn't deserve such an angel. He told me the other night he thought I was a saint. (!) He says he wants to straighten up his life and do whatever he must in order for the two of us to be together. He says ... now that he has some money (which presumably hasn't all been spent on coke), he wants to woo and pursue me the way I deserve. (And he also said that he'll be getting a job soon and finding a place to live ... and working so he can buy a house where the two of us might live.
Do I believe him? I don't know .... It's possible. He's a nurse. He's a certified tai-chi instructer. He's also a wounded man, a Vietnam vet, and -- as we've all heard -- one who struggles with substance abuse.
In fact, he's currently homeless and living on a mountain top in a tent. He's got a trial coming up for A&B. Did he push this woman, as she says? Or did she construct the charges because she was mad that he was leaving (as he says?) It seems plausible ... to me ... that maybe it was a little of both.
So is there really any kind of a hope or a prayer for us? We'll see. I've said the only way we could be together were if he were "clean and sober" and "going to meetings," and that he had the next year to get it together.
He says he can do it.
We'll see.
Who knows what the future will bring -- or more specifically -- his trial on September 10th, which is only days away.
I am probably deluding myself, but I don't care. I feel safe. I feel okay. I may be fooling myself, but I feel okay loving him from afar, and kind of wondering, dreaming about a future -- even though I know -- I will probably always be alone.
That's kind of sad, but that's the truth. And that's why I ran the ad. Granted, it was posted some 20- or 30-odd days ago, and we've all seen how mercurial my changes have been through the evolution of this romance -- but I was hoping ... somehow, I could find another Paul. Another tall, skinny guy with brown hair (well, that's stretching it a bit), but -- one whom I was attracted to, one whom I felt I might be safe with, one who appreciated my many gifts, etc., and one who could be more of a helpmate (instead of coming from such questionable circumstances).
* * * * *
I'm excited about the growth I'm undergoing at the present time. I don't know what it means .... And I don't know where it's taking me -- but I feel there's a mystery, somehow, in this thing I've had going with Paul -- and key to understanding it, is key to something I've not known about myself.
Oh, I feel selfish and self-centered to have spent so much of everyone's time talking about myself.
I'm sorry.
I'm writing from the library now, and am going back to browse and post some replies on others' notes.
XXX, Temmie
Posted by Temmie on August 30, 2003, at 15:20:53
In reply to Re: Personal Ads ...., posted by Tabitha on August 30, 2003, at 14:05:35
Posted by fallsfall on August 30, 2003, at 17:05:23
In reply to On Falling in Love. On Paul and, oh dear -- long!, posted by temmie on August 30, 2003, at 14:19:53
You sound like a wonderful couple. I can tell that you do love him. It it could just work out the way you plan I'm sure that both of you would be very happy. I can see why you like to keep your dream alive - it sounds wonderful.
I'm not as concerned that he is a user. I think that is something that can be addressed (and should be addressed).
What concerns me the most is the assault. Correction the Two assaults. If it was one, then I would say maybe it didn't happen the way she said. But it was two. I don't know about you, but I have never been arrested for assault. And certainly not twice. The chances that this was a fluke goes down a lot when the second one happens. I know a friend who is in an abusive relationship. She almost left him 7 years ago, but she was positive that she would never see her kids again if she did. So she went back to him. I haven't heard from her in years. Her relationship didn't have a lot of physical violence, but he was very much in control of everything. She was so unhappy and so scared. She brought the kids to stay with me from 4 states away. It wasn't hard for him to figure out where she had gone. He came to the middle school and kidnapped his daughter right after school. He took her back to their state and locked her in a motel room. My point is that he did unthinkable things as a matter of course. Because something he had learned or experienced said that he had to be in charge.
I would be terrified to know that you were just entering into a relationship that could be like that. The agony that she went through was indescribable. She tried working with a lawyer - but ended up needing to send the kids back to her husband for their "Summer Visitation". That's when she left my house. He made it clear that she was to come home then or she would never see them again. Her youngest just graduated from high school (I assume he graduated...). I wonder what she will do now.
I would watch the trials carefully. I would talk to past girlfriends. You need to know how he acts. Please don't listen with rose colored ears.
Maybe you can get him into therapy. But if you do, somehow you have to find out if he is making progress or just going. His therapist can't tell you that (confidentiality).
This is a lot of rambling. I am just very worried. I wish it could be wonderful for you.
Posted by Temmie on August 30, 2003, at 17:43:05
In reply to Re: On Falling in Love. On Paul and, oh dear -- long! » temmie, posted by fallsfall on August 30, 2003, at 17:05:23
Yes, Fallsfall. Important considerations! You're so right, and I must remember this, and consider that what I've been hearing from Paul, much of what I've been hearing from him, that it's not right.
I talked with him today. He's still living on the mountain top, with a phone that doesn't work, and someone stole his new bike and his backpack. He said he was so tired of people taking things from him ....
There's more to the conversation, but I won't recount it all here, other than to say that in response to one of my questions he said he had no friends, he was living alone on the mountain top; and sometime after this, that he was going to have to find someplace to live.
I wonder.
I wonder, when he calls after midnight, where he's been? It doesn't seem a reasonable hour to be "coming and going" from the mountain. Today he sounded depressed and near bottom.
Maybe it was the illusion, the "ideal" blooming all those years, that made me fall in love quicker, faster, deeper -- with something that wasn't real at all. Someone. You know what I mean.
In the meantime, I guess I *would* like to be swept off my feet (by someone healthy), but I'm through with the personals. It's too awkward, and too artificial. I'm glad I have my friends here, and perhaps I'm meant to be alone for now.
I keep thinking I'm not getting any younger ... I guess that doesn't matter. Men still seem interested, and guess what? I still find them pests, for the most part. Lastly, who cares aboug getting older (let me adjust the petals in my hair). Hopefully I'm getting smarter ... wiser ... better.
Much love to you. I hope your movie(s) and time with your friend are/were fun. I ended up going out for an icecream cone and falling asleep without the Xanax! All I need now is a good book.
XXX, Temmie
Posted by jay on August 30, 2003, at 23:06:30
In reply to Personal Ads ...., posted by Temmie on August 30, 2003, at 12:13:54
In some odd ways I feel like Steve Martin in 'Lonely Guy'. Oh man, watching that movie makes me laugh a bit, and even cry a bit. Truth be told, my life feels like some film in such a distant, untouchable way. ('City of Angels' crosses with 'Lonely Guy'..oh ya...right! I ain't no angel...and I sure as heck can't put myself in a comedic frame of mind like Steve Martin.) My Mom has been deeply encouraging for me to "get outside", and yes even head in that 'romantic' direction. I've had my five years of 'jail time', and like I read something someone else said, it seems like I am attracted to and attract women in a really different way "this time round." (He referred to it as my "Air of Tragedy"..like women can sense my story/and/or feelings about it all. The thing is I don't want women feeling 'sorry' for me, so like on a resume, it gets difficult to cover a few years of your life.)
I have some similar feelings as Temmie, but from a guys point of view of course. For me, once I start to get a feeling of a 'spark', I run away drenched in guilt and become so nihilistic. I have love and all of that inside of me, and on a good day can make the better part of it. On a very casual 'date' a short while back, I tried to start to tell my story, started crying and I think she wanted me to go to the hospital and never have anything to do with me again! Right in the middle of this nice cocktail lounge, I am having this nervous, existential breakdown. Well...I am hopefully going to address this in therapy, but I also have to start to build this new 'life' and bring in some new friends, get 99 percent of my confidence back again. Then I start thinking about the future..if I/we (whomever) decide to start another family, and that is something I can't even think about for one second at a time. Many women want a guy who obviously wants to at least be open to having kids, but I dare not let it even cross my mind and it makes me feel very 'unwell', mired in guilt and that it maybe wasn't "never meant to be for me." (I live with this self-pitying attitude that I've "failed" at an attempt already to be a parent...I feel responsible for the whole thing.)
Well...it's, uh, "pill" time...and my poor father is very sick, and I know he and my Ma wanna see something 'good' come back for me in life...and I try for them and me. Temmie, I hate giving advice, and I hope I don't sound patronizing, for that is not my intent. But, just know it's gonna be gone...all of it....and it'll be quick.
Goodnight everyone
Jay
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 9, 2003, at 10:42:14
In reply to On Falling in Love. On Paul and, oh dear -- long!, posted by temmie on August 30, 2003, at 14:19:53
Temmie,
I'm afraid that the hurt inner child in you will call out to another abuser. I'm convinced they recognize it at some level.
Be careful,
KDi in Texas
Posted by Temmie on September 9, 2003, at 19:13:00
In reply to Re: On Falling in Love. On Paul and, oh dear -- long! » temmie, posted by KimberlyDi on September 9, 2003, at 10:42:14
Thank you. Well said.
What a sad commentary on the human spirit. But then it's meant for us to grow -- and until we get there, I guess we're doomed to repeat. It's all been said before. Good meeting you. Appreciate your interest and commentary on my dilemma.
Temmie
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 10, 2003, at 12:42:16
In reply to Re: On Falling in Love. On Paul and, oh dear -- long! » KimberlyDi, posted by Temmie on September 9, 2003, at 19:13:00
Thanks for allowing me to share. It's a topic near & dear to my heart. My parents think I'm a magnet for psycho's.
> Thank you. Well said.
>
> What a sad commentary on the human spirit. But then it's meant for us to grow -- and until we get there, I guess we're doomed to repeat. It's all been said before. Good meeting you. Appreciate your interest and commentary on my dilemma.
>
> Temmie
Posted by Temmie on September 10, 2003, at 20:56:02
In reply to Re: On Falling in Love. On Paul and, oh dear -- long! » KimberlyDi, posted by Temmie on September 9, 2003, at 19:13:00
Well then, it looks like we'll have much to share with one another. Take care! T.
This is the end of the thread.
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