![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 9 to 33 of 48. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on August 12, 2003, at 18:31:19
In reply to Re: In case that wasn't clear...Dinah, posted by kara lynne on August 12, 2003, at 12:54:14
>
> Because at this rate I'm not up to jumping through the hoops to get that additional time--it's making me far too chronically aggressive.
>
ROFL.> Dolts. Hrrrmph.
>
You should try my now proven method for dealing with dolts. Get totally hysterical and cry. Not that I'm really recommending it, but it got me in one day what a month of sweet reasonableness couldn't deliver.
Posted by kara lynne on August 12, 2003, at 18:47:35
In reply to Re: Chronic Refractory AGGRESSION/ yesac » kara lynne, posted by yesac on August 12, 2003, at 13:25:21
Hi yesac,
I know just what you mean. It's that inordinate response---some people would fail tests repeatedly in school and not even question whether or not they should go on living. A mystery to me.You sound quite smart to me-- I want to be reassuring about your getting into college, but I know sometimes that's hard to take in or can make someone feel worse----ok, I'm really projecting now. I hate to be dumb, but what does GRE stand for?
I think it's really cool that you studied all that neuroscience in college, by the way.
And no, not 2nd session ever. Second session this round. I've been in counseling but not with a psychotherapist during the past few years. Before that I had some pretty screwed up experiences with therapists, and just plain not-so-effective therapy.
How about yourself? I'm sorry you're not doing so well. I feel very much the same way. And this therapist today did nothing much more than make me feel my pathetic-ness.
It's such a Catch 22 about the activity thing when you're depressed. It doesn't *always* make you feel better, but sometimes I try to push myself, but sometimes I'm just too tired, but then I'm lonely.....
Posted by kara lynne on August 12, 2003, at 18:51:21
In reply to Re: In case that wasn't clear...Dinah, posted by Dinah on August 12, 2003, at 18:31:19
Hmmmm....and there must be a DSM code for that...that might just do the trick!
It would hardly be a stretch for me.
Posted by yesac on August 13, 2003, at 9:45:40
In reply to Re: Chronic Refractory AGGRESSION/ yesac, posted by kara lynne on August 12, 2003, at 18:47:35
> I know just what you mean. It's that inordinate response---some people would fail tests repeatedly in school and not even question whether or not they should go on living. A mystery to me.
Yeah, it's funny. I don't think that I've ever failed any test (oh god, sorry, not to make you feel bad!)... but the point is, even without failing, I question whether I should go on living all the time. Whether I am a "failure" and my life is pointless and I'll never "succeed". I guess it just means different things to different people, and people have different ways of judging themselves. There are some people who by all accounts could be considered a "loser" (including several of my ex-bfs and my sisters' ex-bfs --> we just seem to have that knack). Not that I would say such a thing about anyone. But anyways, these people might be totally happy and content though, or at least not really care about these things that haven't exactly worked out for them. I guess I'm rambling, sorry.
> You sound quite smart to me-- I want to be reassuring about your getting into college, but I know sometimes that's hard to take in or can make someone feel worse----ok, I'm really projecting now. I hate to be dumb, but what does GRE stand for?Thanks for the reassurance. You are right - it is sometimes hard for me to take such encouragement because I am just so filled with self-doubt. But it is nice, nonetheless, to have other people think that I seem worthy or smart or good in whatever way. I think somewhere deep down I believe it too, but I see my shortcomings above all else, and I see how much better other people are compared to me. GRE stands for Graduate Record Exam - it's a standardized test for getting into grad school - like the SAT except for grad school not college.
>
> I think it's really cool that you studied all that neuroscience in college, by the way.Thanks. It was a very fascinating major in many ways. But it also makes you realize how much you *don't* know.
> I've been in counseling but not with a psychotherapist during the past few years. Before that I had some pretty screwed up experiences with therapists, and just plain not-so-effective therapy.
Counseling not with a psychotherapist? What kind of counseling was it? That's too bad about your past therapy experiences. I think that it can just be really hard to find the right therapist. Like I said above (in the other thread), I really think that if that guy didn't strike you the right way, maybe he isn't for you. I don't think any therapist should ever make you feel pathetic... I think that they should always be gentle even if they are being confrontational, and they should show their compassion for you and your feelings, whatever they may be. At least that's what I expect from a good therapist for myself. I guess others might like it more rough!
> It's such a Catch 22 about the activity thing when you're depressed. It doesn't *always* make you feel better, but sometimes I try to push myself, but sometimes I'm just too tired, but then I'm lonely.....
Yeah, and there's no way to know. Sometimes I really do feel better. Other times, I feel just as bad being out and I can't wait to just get the activity over with and go home. Usually, though, I do feel glad that I actually did something.
Posted by kara lynne on August 13, 2003, at 12:40:05
In reply to Re: Chronic Refractory AGGRESSION/ yesac » kara lynne, posted by yesac on August 13, 2003, at 9:45:40
Hi yesac,
That was actually my first fail. My therapist said I should frame it. And may I defend myself? She doth protest too much, but I have to keep saying they are *restructuring* the exam because it was too confusing for people. I knew the answers, that's what's so frustrating. But the way they had it designed you had to measure, and if you measured wrong all your answers were wrong. I know I'm not explaining this well, sorry. It's just that I feel like I have to pay for someone's disorganized exam format. I do have to pay for it.By now I'll have to study all over again, but this time the exam will be multiple choice, no pin the tail on the donkey kind of thing. But the fact that they're making this so hard for me to get extra time is truly humiliating. It's like I have to really prove how defective I am, and I'm too defective to prove it. I think I'm just going to let it go and take it in the allotted time. If I can just get myself to pick up studying and not have to focus on moving and getting away from an abusive boyfriend, maybe I'll do alright.
Thanks for letting me qualify my failure. Failure really is an inside job, and my mission should I decide to accept it--or not.
Posted by lil' jimi on August 14, 2003, at 1:16:52
In reply to Re: Chronic Refractory AGGRESSION/ yesac, posted by kara lynne on August 13, 2003, at 12:40:05
hi kara lynne!
hi yesac!i saw this great link posted by jrbecker and i wanted to make sure y'all saw it.
see http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&articleID=00083A00-318C-1F30-9AD380A84189F2D7
i figure the more we can understand about this, the better our chances finding our individual solutions.
and i also see benefits of having a context for assessing the effects we experience from medication and that process offering guidance in discovering our keys.there IS hope.
we CAN survive this.
we WILL find the solution(s).yesac, i'm pulling for you!
hang in there!!kara lynne, do not call your ex!
... read mind boosters
... read this article for me
... read the meds posts
... read the lex thread
... sing, dance, exercise
... write poetry ... post it for us
... (and you too on all of these, ms yesac ... please?)
... anything
BUT do NOT call him!take care!!
~ jim
Posted by kara lynne on August 14, 2003, at 13:25:03
In reply to re: neuroscience, posted by lil' jimi on August 14, 2003, at 1:16:52
Thanks jimi!
That's so cool to hear from a guy. It gives me new inspiration.
I will go read the article now...
Posted by lil' jimi on August 14, 2003, at 15:32:19
In reply to re: neuroscience, posted by kara lynne on August 14, 2003, at 13:25:03
Kara Lynne!
> Thanks jimi!
>
> That's so cool to hear from a guy. It gives me new inspiration.
>
> I will go read the article now...well, you're just as welcome as all get out!
And, as a guy, Do Not Call ex-o!
too many fish in the sea ...
aggravate your-own-self ... you can do it better than anybody ... ... why bother with the inept, when you're good enough for your own suffering!... ... so, okay, the goal is to not do the pain and suffering thing any more ... ... well, the way to start is to ....
NOT CALL HIM!!!
kisses!
~ jim
Posted by kara lynne on August 14, 2003, at 18:31:03
In reply to re: neuroscience, posted by lil' jimi on August 14, 2003, at 1:16:52
Yes, our dear Noa who (I forget why) hasn't posted for awhile presented us with a lot of amygdala information. I told her she should start a band called "Noa and the Flaming Amygdala's". She said I could sing back up--or even lead.
Posted by lil' jimi on August 15, 2003, at 1:29:39
In reply to re: neuroscience, posted by kara lynne on August 14, 2003, at 18:31:03
>
> Yes, our dear Noa who (I forget why) hasn't posted for awhile presented us with a lot of amygdala information. I told her she should start a band called "Noa and the Flaming Amygdala's". She said I could sing back up--or even lead.oh, could i join?
... .. ... or i could be your roadie? ... ... please?hi, noa! ... ... where ever you are .... ... ... hope you are well ... .... you are missed here ... ...
... Ah, Mig, Dallah! ... on fire!!
Posted by kara lynne on August 15, 2003, at 2:40:31
In reply to re: noascience » kara lynne, posted by lil' jimi on August 15, 2003, at 1:29:39
Yes of course you can! Whatever position you want. Just find our dear noa and let's get started...
Posted by lil' jimi on August 15, 2003, at 3:14:02
In reply to re: noascience, posted by kara lynne on August 15, 2003, at 2:40:31
well, then maybe i could open for y'all with the
"Lexapro Rockers"!
?
~ jp.s. hello noa, you out there?
Posted by kara lynne on August 15, 2003, at 13:09:36
In reply to re: noascience » kara lynne, posted by lil' jimi on August 15, 2003, at 3:14:02
Where is noa? Did you used to talk with her?
NOAAAA.....
GRACIEEEE...
Posted by lil' jimi on August 15, 2003, at 14:24:39
In reply to re: noascience, posted by kara lynne on August 15, 2003, at 13:09:36
> Where is noa? Did you used to talk with her?
>
> NOAAAA.....
>
> GRACIEEEE...yesac posted to me just this morning that she recalls noa saying she was taking a break from pb ... ... or something ... ? ... but yesac seemed to know about her.
i never posted to noa nor to whiterabbit ... well, maybe to gracie a little, but not like i'd expect her to know or remember me ...
.... .... although, i did read their posts quite a bit ... ... maybe i posted to noa once too .... ? .... something to look up to see just how bad my memory is/was/has gotten ...
even so, i miss them too .... so i upgraded our subject line, just to give Noa a shout ...ever look in the archives to read your own old posts?
i have.
scary ... i way underwhelm myself.
do you like to drink coffee?
~ jim
Posted by gabbix2 on August 15, 2003, at 17:14:46
In reply to NOA !!!! we miss you !! » kara lynne, posted by lil' jimi on August 15, 2003, at 14:24:39
Noa said she'd be offline for a while,
we still miss her though.
WhiteRabbit, I'm worried about.
Posted by kara lynne on August 15, 2003, at 17:19:41
In reply to NOA !!!! we miss you !! » kara lynne, posted by lil' jimi on August 15, 2003, at 14:24:39
LOVE coffee. Strong and bad for me. Every day.
Posted by kara lynne on August 15, 2003, at 17:20:29
In reply to Gracie I'm worried :( » lil' jimi, posted by gabbix2 on August 15, 2003, at 17:14:46
Isn't there anything we can do??
Posted by Sabina on August 15, 2003, at 17:33:59
In reply to Re: Gracie I'm worried :( Me too gabbi, posted by kara lynne on August 15, 2003, at 17:20:29
...and this is what i've been asking for three weeks. can't we do anything when a poster (gracie, in this case) says shes living in an increasinly volitile household and asks us to "call the cops" in case she disappears? i've been more than a little worried.
Posted by lil' jimi on August 15, 2003, at 17:58:34
In reply to Re: NOA !!!! we miss you !!, posted by kara lynne on August 15, 2003, at 17:19:41
> LOVE coffee. Strong and bad for me. Every day.
me too .... strong ... guatemalan !
... ... my "cup" holds 32 oz.
.... ... aka a QUART !
Posted by lil' jimi on August 15, 2003, at 18:39:41
In reply to Re: Gracie I'm worried :( Me too gabbi, posted by Sabina on August 15, 2003, at 17:33:59
> ...and this is what i've been asking for three weeks. can't we do anything when a poster (gracie, in this case) says shes living in an increasinly volitile household and asks us to "call the cops" in case she disappears? i've been more than a little worried.
>hi 'bina,
i (like many others, i'm sure) share your concerns .... .... it seems obvious that they have more than just a rational basis ... ...
.... .... in the past when this situation occurred with concern for another poster's safety, i sent to Dr. Bob's e-mail address all of the pertinent e-mails i had received and asked him if there was any way i could help ....
.... .... of course we have to recognize that there are serious limitations to any options ....
.... informing Dr. Bob was the last refuge for hope that anyone would be able to help ....
.... and we may safely presume he will have been kept up on these issues .... .... this is all the more likely, given Dinah's closeness to Gracie and her sometimes capacity as Dr. Bob's substitute ........ .... be all of that as it may, i would ask you to convey any information you (or anyone) may have directly to Dr. Bob at dr-bob@uchicago.edu ....
.... we have to understand that he may well not be able to do anything either ... ... but this is the most we can do here at pBabble unless there is more information that could help Dr. Bob and that he might be able to provide to law enforcement .... ....
.... .... it is my considered opinion that that is the penultimate thing we may do ...
.... .... of course, for the faithful, the ultimate thing will be to pray ... ... no time like the present ..... .... corresponding directly with Dr. Bob also limits exposing our posters to the anxieties of these issues ... many are not well for the possibility of tragedy ... ...
.... .... i hope and pray there can be something we can do ....
.... .... and it is not trivial that we must care for our own well being and health as well ...
TAKE CARE!
~ jim
Posted by Sabina on August 16, 2003, at 0:00:56
In reply to re: We are worried about Gracie » Sabina, posted by lil' jimi on August 15, 2003, at 18:39:41
>>>> re: .... .... corresponding directly with Dr. Bob also limits exposing our posters to the anxieties of these issues ... many are not well for the possibility of tragedy ... ...
i feel like you are inferring that i am exposing our posters to anxiety by mentioning my concern for gracie's well being. however, i will take no offense, since i choose to assume that none was intended. i am well aware of the inadequacies of this medium, where the inferances and tones of exchanges can be so slippery and obscure at times.in the past, i've made a point of not reading posts that may have proven to be triggering for me (detailed suicide plans, etc.) and i trust that our posters are able to take responsibility for themselves and excercise the same discretion in this case.
i sincerely apologize that i didn't have a more pleasant topic for the evening, but i wasn't led to believe that was my brief for this board. we have emotional and mental problems. it hurts. it's not pretty. this is where we talk about it with people who understand.
i don't feel that i'm exactly fanning the flames of panic, here, though. to that end i purposely only mention gracie anymore after someone else does first.
incidentally, i have written to dr. bob (and dinah) twice each. dinah doesn't seem to know anymore than i do. dr. bob's advice was to post my concerns here, which i have done. i confess that i had hoped for a more agressive response from him, one along the lines of a welfare check.
the second time i wrote to him he advised me to contact her ISP. i have since done so. i'm sure they'll hop right into action because some crazy girl on a message board said that somebody else said in a post that....yadda, yadda.
riiiight. see, that's why i was thinking it might carry some more weight if it had come from dr. bob. oh well. i've been so disappointed, in fact, that i've mostly stayed away as of late to try and process through my feelings about it privately.
let's just pray that gracie either got herself out of that house or at least reiterated her request for police backup in an alternate venue, one that was immediately available, less anonymous, and more adequately appointed toward a course of action, and that she is well and safe tonight.
respectfully,
sabina
Posted by kara lynne on August 16, 2003, at 1:13:13
In reply to re: not an upbeat topic, please be aware » lil' jimi, posted by Sabina on August 16, 2003, at 0:00:56
Hi Sabina,
I don't think anyone meant for you to apologize for anything. I am grateful you've gone to the lengths you have.I guess that's as far as dr. Bob can take it-- like during a perceived suicide threat?
I am praying with you.
Posted by lil' jimi on August 16, 2003, at 2:08:03
In reply to re: not an upbeat topic, please be aware » lil' jimi, posted by Sabina on August 16, 2003, at 0:00:56
> >>>> re: .... .... corresponding directly with Dr. Bob also limits exposing our posters to the anxieties of these issues ... many are not well for the possibility of tragedy ... ...
>
>
>
>
> i feel like you are inferring that i am exposing our posters to anxiety by mentioning my concern for gracie's well being. however, i will take no offense, since i choose to assume that none was intended. i am well aware of the inadequacies of this medium, where the inferances and tones of exchanges can be so slippery and obscure at times.
>
> in the past, i've made a point of not reading posts that may have proven to be triggering for me (detailed suicide plans, etc.) and i trust that our posters are able to take responsibility for themselves and excercise the same discretion in this case.
>
> i sincerely apologize that i didn't have a more pleasant topic for the evening, but i wasn't led to believe that was my brief for this board. we have emotional and mental problems. it hurts. it's not pretty. this is where we talk about it with people who understand.
>
> i don't feel that i'm exactly fanning the flames of panic, here, though. to that end i purposely only mention gracie anymore after someone else does first.
>
> incidentally, i have written to dr. bob (and dinah) twice each. dinah doesn't seem to know anymore than i do. dr. bob's advice was to post my concerns here, which i have done. i confess that i had hoped for a more agressive response from him, one along the lines of a welfare check.
>
> the second time i wrote to him he advised me to contact her ISP. i have since done so. i'm sure they'll hop right into action because some crazy girl on a message board said that somebody else said in a post that....yadda, yadda.
>
> riiiight. see, that's why i was thinking it might carry some more weight if it had come from dr. bob. oh well. i've been so disappointed, in fact, that i've mostly stayed away as of late to try and process through my feelings about it privately.
>
> let's just pray that gracie either got herself out of that house or at least reiterated her request for police backup in an alternate venue, one that was immediately available, less anonymous, and more adequately appointed toward a course of action, and that she is well and safe tonight.
>
> respectfully,
>
> sabina
i admire that you have been so thorough on gracie's behalf and i am grateful that you have already exhausted all of my suggestions ... ... i am grateful that you have been so conscientious and deliberate .... .... you are also very articulate, which i envy ... ... i'm not so articulate ... ...
... ... i apologize for any hurt i have caused you
... ... i intended no criticism of you whatsoever
... ... i can now easily see how this interpretation would have been drawn ...
... ... i apologize for not considering the inference you could, not unreasonably, draw from my words
... ... i am truly sorry for this and i ask for your forgiveness
... ...
... ... i was speaking from my experience of a poster who created considerable havoc for a lot of us ... ... the circumstances were completely different from gracie's ... ...this poster got banned ...
her supporters established e-mail connection with her ...
she subsequently e-mailed her suicide announcement to her supporters ...
i panicked and posted my panic on the meds board, panicking others, who out of the best of intentions wanted to help someone in danger ...
i'd only been here a week or two and in my hysteria violated posting policies left and right ...the poster survives, recovers, returns from her ban ...
only to post and e-mail her suicide announcements again ...
the 3rd time ... people wise up; sympathies turn into pity, but for some, into angry hostility ...by now the announcements come with vengeful hatred, singling out all authorities and especially her supporters ... ...
there were subsequent episodes, but by this time all of her other supporter had left psycho-babble or left soon afterward ...
except for mewhen i wrote about limiting the trauma to our posters, i was recounting my experience and my lessons from it ... ... well, for myself ... ... those feelings are just there now ... ... i would not be able to try to accuse you being insensitive or thoughtless
... ... to me, i was sharing my considerations on avoiding suffering because i had indiscretely increased suffering here and i became close to people who deeply hurt by this poster ... ...i have read your posts of your concern for gracie's safety ... ... ... they have always been kind, deliberate and gentle, while being urgent and pleading .... ... i think, if i may be so bold, they were in excellent taste and way within the stress levels our fragile posters manage to take on the boards ... ... i admire the skill and effort exercised to offer such conscientious expression of your own panic about your friend gracie ... ...
i am probably in a better position than most to appreciate the stress you have been enduring ... ... to feel the urgent need to take action to protect or save a friend, BUT not be able to take action AND not have ANY control over the dilemma ... ... and i understand too well how these feelings are exaserbated by the impression that the authorities are not taking the actions we expect must be taken ... ... and by the impression that everyone else is indulging in bystander syndrome ...
i offer you my narrative not as an excuse ... ... i seek no excuse here ... i should have considered the consequences to your feelings ... i didn't ... ... i was wrong ... ... i offer my narative only as an explanation, so that you might see i was not being beligerent, rather than negligent ... ... distracted by my own feelings, i mentioned something i wished someone had mentioned to me ...
... ... i wrote the words that hurt you, to me, more than i wrote them to you ...i am sorry ... ... ... i hope you will forgive me
regretfully,
~ jim
Posted by Sabina on August 16, 2003, at 9:18:05
In reply to re: i'm so sorry » Sabina, posted by lil' jimi on August 16, 2003, at 2:08:03
jim, buddy, don't sweat it! just as i chose to assume, there was *much* more to your story and history than i knew, and i am quite happy that i chose not to perceive your reply in a negative fashion. don't think another thing about it. i wasn't irritated with you last night and i'm certainly not irritated with you this morning. i've got more to worry about in my life than to go looking for reasons to get my feelings hurt here, where everyone has been nothing but kind to me and there's only ever been a slight miscommunication that was easily cleared up whenever the situation appeared to be otherwise. thanks for telling me your story, in any case. it sounds like it was a very bad situation, indeed. i can see how it would leave quite an impression on anyone.
i do continue to pray for gracie as i'm sure do we all. as i have done everything i can think to do physically, i will give this situation up to god and keep quiet about here it out of respect for others' feelings. i do appreciate your input on this matter. hopefully, soon we will receive some positive word, either from graice or someone in contact with her.
bina
Posted by lil' jimi on August 16, 2003, at 19:01:20
In reply to re: no apologies necessary! » lil' jimi, posted by Sabina on August 16, 2003, at 9:18:05
sweet sabina,
you kindly wrote me:
> jim, buddy, don't sweat it! just as i chose to assume, there was *much* more to your story and history than i knew, and i am quite happy that i chose not to perceive your reply in a negative fashion. don't think another thing about it. i wasn't irritated with you last night and i'm certainly not irritated with you this morning. i've got more to worry about in my life than to go looking for reasons to get my feelings hurt here, where everyone has been nothing but kind to me and there's only ever been a slight miscommunication that was easily cleared up whenever the situation appeared to be otherwise. thanks for telling me your story, in any case. it sounds like it was a very bad situation, indeed. i can see how it would leave quite an impression on anyone.
>
> i do continue to pray for gracie as i'm sure do we all. as i have done everything i can think to do physically, i will give this situation up to god and keep quiet about here it out of respect for others' feelings. i do appreciate your input on this matter. hopefully, soon we will receive some positive word, either from gracie or someone in contact with her.
>
> binait is gracious of you to be so decent about this and i apprecaite it very much .... .... your spirit is strong to handle the challenges of your own situation and your campaign for grace, and then deal with my ineptitude .... ...
... i think being irritable is reasonable under the circumstances ...
... i also think that i overreact due to my hypersensitivity to these issues and that nothing you have done has come close to spreading panic or hysteria ... ... and it is not comparable to my enabling that poster to spread psychic mayhem by violating posting policies here ...
... ... given you were advised to post inquiries about grace ... ... and the absence of a threat of self-destruction, .... i think the situation may be qualitatively different .... different enough to warrant a less than totally discreet appraoch ...... .. ... for instance ...
... ... if someone's claiming a puppy's about to suffer, but there's nothing anyone can do about it ... then broadcasting this would mostly serve to increase the number of people who would not be able to do anything about it, and little else ...
... ... but if someone has lost a puppy and wants help ... then broadcasting that would multiply the number folks on the look out ... which is nearly harmless ... enough so that any incidental hysteria is small enough that it is worth that risk ...... ... your pleas of concern for gracie have been easily within this second category ... (although i apologize for casting grace as analogous with the puppy ... sorry, gracie) ...
although i'd suspect you've got everyone already beating the bushes ...
i can (Now!) see posting for grace as not having a significant negative impact on the boards' psychic ambiance ...
when compared to the beneficial catharsis from posting (venting) your (our) concerns ... i feel it may be that the detrimental effects of such posts are negligible under these circumstances ... at least until somebody else comes up with other concerns anyway ... ...i appreciate your good spirit and thank you for your understanding ... ...
thanks,
your buddy,
~ jim
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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