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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by judy1 on July 14, 2003, at 12:28:56
In reply to to suicide survivors..., posted by yesac on July 12, 2003, at 15:06:50
Thank you for the excellent question. I had 2 serious attempts (the last 3 years ago), and one that landed me in intensive care for several days. Afterwards I felt like a failure and very angry at those who rescued me. Much later (and still to this day), I feel extremely guilty for putting my loved ones through such a selfish act. This is the emotion that prevents me from trying again, despite some pretty bad suicidal ideation at times. Personally hospitals did not help- only because I have the typical insurance where they keep you for about a week. It really was out-patient 'day hospital' that seemed to make a difference, the daily group and individual sessions that structured my day. My insurance didn't seem to mind that- it was $600/day versus $1200. If increased sessions with your therapist don't help, maybe you can consider that? Do you have a contract with your therapist? take care, judy
Posted by Penny on July 14, 2003, at 12:35:34
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors... » yesac, posted by judy1 on July 14, 2003, at 12:28:56
Funny, I was in an intensive outpatient program through a hospital in Charlotte last year this time, and my insurance apparently would have been more willing to pay for hospitalization! But the IOP program WAS very good and very helpful, but I don't know if there's anything around here, where yesac and I both live, unfortunately. How long were you in your program? I was in mine for a month, but was unemployed part of the time, so I was able to work it into my schedule, but I wouldn't be able to do that now, even if there was such a program.
P
Posted by yesac on July 14, 2003, at 12:49:03
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors... » yesac, posted by judy1 on July 14, 2003, at 12:28:56
> I feel extremely guilty for putting my loved ones through such a selfish act. This is the emotion that prevents me from trying again, despite some pretty bad suicidal ideation at times.
I would say that the guilt over hurting my family so much is probably the main reason I have never attempted. Also, believe it or not, I think that my "agreements" with therapists have actually made me really think twice at times, because I really don't like to go back on my word.
>It really was out-patient 'day hospital' that seemed to make a difference, the daily group and individual sessions that structured my day.
I've given some thought to that type of thing, but like Penny said, I haven't had success in finding something around here. Plus, there is the issue of my job. I wish that they had evening and/or weekend intensive programs. It's like with these daytime things, they assume that someone needing that must not be capable of working. It's too disruptive to my life. I shouldn't have to give up my life in order to do that. Don't you think that if maintaining "normalcy" in one's life is possible, they should allow for that?
Posted by judy1 on July 14, 2003, at 12:52:47
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors... » judy1, posted by Penny on July 14, 2003, at 12:35:34
Hi Penny,
I also was in it for about a month then transitioned into seeing my therapist 2 or 3 times a week. The last time I tried I stopped working so scheduling wasn't a problem (even though there were people there who did work). Because I made an attempt I was 'ordered' to go from 9 to 3, but there were people who just came a couple of hours. I'm really sorry there isn't a program like that where you live, I guess the next best thing would be increased therapy visits- mine would probably suggest daily and my shrink has spent 2 hours at a time with me when I'm having a difficult time. It was during outpatient when spouses (or other family) came that I really understood what agony I had put my husband through (I'll never forget that). My (then) one child was too young to understand, but I lost my father to suicide and I feel a great deal of anger towards him. I'm sorry to ramble. take care of yourself, judy
Posted by yesac on July 14, 2003, at 13:03:44
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors... » Penny, posted by judy1 on July 14, 2003, at 12:52:47
Oh, how I wish I could have more therapy visits. I have at times gone twice a week (in college when it was free!). But now it would just be too expensive. I just don't feel like I can be shelling out all that money. My copayments are $30, so it would really add up if I went two or three or more times a week.
Posted by Penny on July 14, 2003, at 13:53:22
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors... » Penny, posted by judy1 on July 14, 2003, at 12:52:47
Yes, my grandfather committed suicide two years ago and I still harbor a lot of anger toward him and the events surrounding his death. At the time it made me think, "I would never do this to my family," and it's my grandmother and my dogs that keep me from going there. At the same time, when I'm in my worst moments, the logic is gone and the pain is such that it outweighs any reason I might have had.
P
Posted by giget on July 14, 2003, at 14:00:33
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors... » judy1, posted by Penny on July 14, 2003, at 13:53:22
I am sorry to hear this about your grandfather. If you ever think of sucide just think of you grandmother!
> Yes, my grandfather committed suicide two years ago and I still harbor a lot of anger toward him and the events surrounding his death. At the time it made me think, "I would never do this to my family," and it's my grandmother and my dogs that keep me from going there. At the same time, when I'm in my worst moments, the logic is gone and the pain is such that it outweighs any reason I might have had.
>
> P
Posted by gabbix2 on July 14, 2003, at 14:08:01
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors..., posted by giget on July 14, 2003, at 14:00:33
I lost a friend to suicide, a roomate, I found her. Though I miss her, I've never been angry at her, any more than I would be if she'd died of any other disease. Sometimes I think "Why aren't you here for me to talk to?"
But the fact that she's gone through taking her own life doesn't enter into it. I don't think of it this consciously but I know that suicide is a side effect of depression, and I think it just makes things so horrible how could I get mad at them? It would be different if I didn't have depression myself though I'm sure.
Posted by giget on July 14, 2003, at 14:24:11
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors..., posted by gabbix2 on July 14, 2003, at 14:08:01
I am sorry that anyone has to go through lossing someone that way.
Just think for what ever reason they did that, they are not in pain anymore, they are at peace. Dieing is only for a period of time, before they become a new person.
Posted by gabbix2 on July 14, 2003, at 15:04:16
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors..., posted by giget on July 14, 2003, at 14:24:11
Thank you,
But when I leave this place I DON'T WANNA EVER COME BACK NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! ; )
Posted by giget on July 14, 2003, at 15:07:14
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors... » giget, posted by gabbix2 on July 14, 2003, at 15:04:16
You may not have a choice! But when you come back things will be different, because of what you have learned from this life.
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> But when I leave this place I DON'T WANNA EVER COME BACK NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! ; )
>
Posted by judy1 on July 14, 2003, at 15:45:52
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors... » judy1, posted by yesac on July 14, 2003, at 12:49:03
I do believe that contracts work- at least for some people. Like you, I hate going back on my word. My shrink who dropped me after my first attempt (there were a bunch of things going on there) just fell apart. He was the one who called the police because of a missed appt. (I never miss appointments w/o calling) and I think took it very personally. I imagine all shrinks feel that way, that they have failed you in some way. Like I said to Penny, some of the participants in the day program did work and only came 2 hours a day. You're right though, most people who have attempted suicide do not work until/ or if the depression lifts. Does your job have short term disability? This is exactly what it is designed for. When I worked my shrink would write notes to my supervisor getting me time off for a month at a time. I understand that $30/ visit can be a great deal of money but if you consider it's your life at stake it really isn't. I've taken money from credit cards when I needed help and I count it as a success that I'm still around to pay the minimum payments:-). I know you feel really bad but you are functional which makes me think that for the short term extra therapy visits would be really helpful. I hope everything works out for you. take care, judy
Posted by gabbix2 on July 14, 2003, at 15:48:06
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors... » gabbix2, posted by giget on July 14, 2003, at 15:07:14
I have learned that I hate it!
Okay, I'm just being a brat. And I shall not
ruin this thread which is based on such a good topic. I'm not sure if I ascribe to the theory of reincarnation and higher levels of consciousness though reading about it is interesting.
Posted by Willow on July 15, 2003, at 0:13:12
In reply to I also wonder..., posted by yesac on July 13, 2003, at 16:00:03
> I wonder if actually surviving an attempt is sort of the way to get some real help? I just feel like I'm not getting enough.
You need to talk to your psych provider about these thoughts. It'll get your frustration across.
>
> I think it's ironic because even though I have this desire to kill myself (stronger at some times than others) - the idea of being killed like in an accident or something bothers me.You are frustrated with your life as it is presently and would like to change it. After my suicide attempt it was a struggle not to walk in front of a car. I would question how there could be a higher being in control if people with a desire to live could get lethal illnesses but not me. This thought process stayed with me for decades. Now through therapy and drugs I'm starting to be able to change it. But I honestly question how much of it is just me, and the stangest thing being that I really appreciate the world around me; though, I have a hard time comprehending why I'm here. My children are my lifeline at the moment and my parents. Guilt keeps me going.
Well after all that rambling, stating clearly to your doctor how you want help should start the road to recovery for you.
Best wishes
Whispering Willow
Posted by giget on July 15, 2003, at 6:37:22
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors... » giget, posted by gabbix2 on July 14, 2003, at 15:48:06
What do you hate? I understand that people here are from all types of beliefs and religions, I am not trying to push my beliefs on anyone. I hope you did not feel that way. Sometimes seeing things in a different light, gives people hope.
Sorry again.
> I have learned that I hate it!
>
> Okay, I'm just being a brat. And I shall not
> ruin this thread which is based on such a good topic. I'm not sure if I ascribe to the theory of reincarnation and higher levels of consciousness though reading about it is interesting.
Posted by gabbix2 on July 15, 2003, at 9:40:56
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors... » gabbix2, posted by giget on July 15, 2003, at 6:37:22
Giget I didn't feel you were pushing your beliefs on me at all. its something I've studied though quite thoroughly and found too many inconsistencies,and though I would love to have a belief I just don't.
The reincarnation theories I've studied state that pure consciousness existed from the very beginning, and if thats true, I can't comprehend inventing a state of impurity that souls would have to climb their way out of.
But of course that my little mind not comprehending it, who knows?As for hating it here. I just have never been at ease with existence, thought I see the beautiful things, and have had really beautiful extraordinary experiences. I just don't like life, my life or others, I don't feel I belong here I want out. I won't do it though, because I've promised my family. As you said, sure I may have more beautiful experiences, but if I'm not here to have them, I won't miss them.
Posted by giget on July 15, 2003, at 10:46:08
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors... » giget, posted by gabbix2 on July 15, 2003, at 9:40:56
How can you miss something you never had. Everyone says that love is the best thing that happended to them. They would rather love and lost then never loved before. But what are we really missing out on? Everyones experience with everything is different. What if what we did not do would have caused major pain, just in doing it?
I have studied the different beliefs and religions for years now, and finally knew where my heart was and what I belived. I am blessed to be able to say that I truely found what I believe.
I hope everyone will be able to say that one day, no matter what your religion is or what you believe.> Giget I didn't feel you were pushing your beliefs on me at all. its something I've studied though quite thoroughly and found too many inconsistencies,and though I would love to have a belief I just don't.
> The reincarnation theories I've studied state that pure consciousness existed from the very beginning, and if thats true, I can't comprehend inventing a state of impurity that souls would have to climb their way out of.
> But of course that my little mind not comprehending it, who knows?
>
> As for hating it here. I just have never been at ease with existence, thought I see the beautiful things, and have had really beautiful extraordinary experiences. I just don't like life, my life or others, I don't feel I belong here I want out. I won't do it though, because I've promised my family. As you said, sure I may have more beautiful experiences, but if I'm not here to have them, I won't miss them.
>
>
Posted by giget on July 15, 2003, at 10:47:38
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors... » giget, posted by gabbix2 on July 15, 2003, at 9:40:56
You seem really down right now, anything I can do?
I know that you will not do sucide, but even the thought can haunt you. I hope you can find a way out of the dark hole... I am here if you want to talk!
Posted by yesac on July 15, 2003, at 11:13:03
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors..., posted by giget on July 15, 2003, at 10:46:08
> How can you miss something you never had. Everyone says that love is the best thing that happended to them. They would rather love and lost then never loved before. But what are we really missing out on? Everyones experience with everything is different. What if what we did not do would have caused major pain, just in doing it?
Hmmm... that's a very interesting point that you guys are making. People (usually therapists) have said all that to me, like, you'll never know what could have happened, you'll never get the chance to see if life can get better if you kill yourself now. And I've thought to myself even, that I'll miss out on my future and all the possibilities.
But you're kind of right. I mean, how CAN you miss something you never had? If I die, and no longer exist, I won't be missing anything. Other people will be missing things for me, like "she had such a bright future", but not me.
Posted by giget on July 15, 2003, at 11:24:32
In reply to missing out - giget, gabbix, posted by yesac on July 15, 2003, at 11:13:03
Morning Yesac,
You have been quite this morning....Suicide is a hard subject, but you are right others would say "they had such a bright future"... how do they know that? Maybe you would get hit by a car and be in a vegetable the rest of your life... That is what life is not knowing what is a head. With suicide you have to make a chance weither it is worth it or not, everyone may have a wonderful future with no mental problems... but that is something internal the person has to deal with.
Anyways, just saying what I believe... Not trying to push anything.
> > How can you miss something you never had. Everyone says that love is the best thing that happended to them. They would rather love and lost then never loved before. But what are we really missing out on? Everyones experience with everything is different. What if what we did not do would have caused major pain, just in doing it?
>
> Hmmm... that's a very interesting point that you guys are making. People (usually therapists) have said all that to me, like, you'll never know what could have happened, you'll never get the chance to see if life can get better if you kill yourself now. And I've thought to myself even, that I'll miss out on my future and all the possibilities.
>
> But you're kind of right. I mean, how CAN you miss something you never had? If I die, and no longer exist, I won't be missing anything. Other people will be missing things for me, like "she had such a bright future", but not me.
>
>
Posted by gabbix2 on July 15, 2003, at 12:50:32
In reply to Re: missing out - giget, gabbix, posted by giget on July 15, 2003, at 11:24:32
Yesac, please don't take the idea of living as
an ideology, or something to be debated, I genuinely think my way of thinking is the thinking of a person suffering from depression.Wanting to survive is the most fundamental of instincts, I think my not having it means I am ill, and with the correct medication or method of healing I wouldn't feel this way.
There have been times where life has been enjoyable enough that its surpassed my
wish for death.Okay, story time.. This helps me sometimes when my heart doesn't believe. When I was actively suicidal once, I was at my Mom's, and she took me outside to a pear tree and said
"Look, at this pear, right here on the stem, is a little notch with a split in it, so that when you pick the pear, it splits at the notch and doesn't damage the tree"
"If that much thought went into creating a pear tree, how can you doubt that there is a reason for you?"It gets me through my existentialist angst sometimes.
Posted by noa on July 15, 2003, at 16:46:29
In reply to Re: missing out - giget, gabbix Yesac.., posted by gabbix2 on July 15, 2003, at 12:50:32
That is a nice story. Your mom sounds nice.
Posted by gabbix2 on July 15, 2003, at 17:22:26
In reply to Re: missing out - giget, gabbix Yesac.. » gabbix2, posted by noa on July 15, 2003, at 16:46:29
That story was a little miracle for me, and probably one of maybe 3 things that actually helped during the most excruciating bout with depression I've ever had. It didn't make me feel better, it gave me a reason to get through it though.
As for my mom, well, I hate to throw cold water on the sentiment but I think she must have channeled it somehow :(
Posted by noa on July 15, 2003, at 18:33:45
In reply to Re: missing out - giget, gabbix Yesac.. » noa, posted by gabbix2 on July 15, 2003, at 17:22:26
> > As for my mom, well, I hate to throw cold water on the sentiment but I think she must have channeled it somehow
LOL. Ok, so maybe that is her purpose on earth--to channel that message to you?
Posted by gabbix2 on July 15, 2003, at 18:42:41
In reply to Re: missing out - giget, gabbix Yesac.. » gabbix2, posted by noa on July 15, 2003, at 18:33:45
This is the end of the thread.
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