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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by leeran on May 22, 2003, at 1:33:24
i can't believe that i'm typing this. telling people i don't even "know" about this complete and utter pain.
in less than an hour, with one phone call, my life went over the guardrail. that's the only way i can describe it. another metaphor/simile. i want to fill this blank space with every obscenity but i can't because i must be civil. and that extends to this situation. but i don't want to be civil. i want to yell and beat my head against something.
i want to know why the other shoe always has to drop.
most of all - i just want to wake up and have my husband standing there in his towel, turning on the today show . . . and telling me this was all some ambien-induced dream. but i know it isn't. i've already pinched myself five times. at least.
and i can feel the ocean air coming in through the open window by my desk and i know this is real but i don't want it to be real.
today - on a day that i felt so weary. weary with a touch of impending doom because i had visited (too often) a website about the "planet x" conspiracy and the pole shifts. a day i wondered if lexapro was the answer. wondered why i ate three donuts. wondered if i would ever get it back together enough to enjoy working again.
a day when the sun came out after two days of what we call june gloom (but it's early this year - mid-may).
this day.
the day my poles shifted. my world turned upside down.
my ex-husband calls to talk to me and even after twenty two years of knowing him - i sense that he has a shoe he wants to drop. i thought perhaps he and his wife were divorcing - after all, she had held the proverbial "divorce threat" gun to his head back in the early fall.
the fall.
a time when my son didn't even want to go back to visit at christmas because he didn't feel welcomed by his own father. when we stayed up talking until 3:30 on a school night and he cried so hard about a relationship he has never had with his father. bitter tears. like the ones i cry tonight. the night when i defended a man that at that moment i despised with every cell in my body. defended him because i know that my son is part "him" and that to do otherwise might damage his self-esteem in some way. after all, i am a dutiful "girl." i have tried to follow every instruction from the "divorce" seminar i attended years ago.
that night last fall that turned into morning. a morning i could barely greet because of the pain of knowing that my son was hurting so much - and i couldn't "fix it."
but it's not fall tonight.
and the only thing that has fallen is the shoe - and the shoe has survived the fall but my heart has not.
one minute. life changes.
spins out of control and you're sure you've never let go of the steering wheel. your hands hurt from holding on so tight.
and the voice on the other end of the line. the voice of the past. the voice of the button pusher. the voice that lent the DNA to create my son. the son that was born after twelve hours of labor - by c-section. the son and mother that the father left the day after coming home from the hospital - to go on a "business" trip to florida that was more golf than business.
that voice.
the voice that has never helped with homework, who left it all for me to supervise every other sunday night at the last minute for years. the voice that told me he had been unfaithful with someone whose last name he didn't even know. the voice of the man that my son resembles so strongly.
the voice that my fifteen year old son has decided he wants to live with after all these years. the voice that leaves my body weak. closer to fainting than i've ever felt.
a decision that was born during christmas break. the christmas break he didn't even want to spend with his father back in november.
but he's changed. not my son. the voice. the father. the same "change" he would make during the years i knew him. the "gun to the head" change, but this time the finger on the trigger was a new wife. same story/different gun.
so, for one day - when this voice says (over christmas break) "n., this day is all about you - whatever you want to do - it's your day." yes, a day when it was too cold to golf and the clubhouse was closed . . . one day with the utterance "this day is all yours n. - it's all about you today."
one day.
traded in for fourteen years and ten months.
one frigging day.
this is how desperately my son wants his father's attention. his mother's day card to me said it all - little did i know a plan was in the works and i was, as usual, the last to know. that's the way it always was with my ex. the shoe-dropper.
the mother's day card that said - in his own writing - mom, you have always been there for me and i will never forget that. i've always known how much you loved me.
and the voice of the shoe-dropper tells me what a level-headed, mature young man i have raised - and it's 99% my doing. i hear that from everyone. "he is so special, you have done such a good job."
such a good job . . . despite two divorces? i don't know. i don't know.
i know i have loved him like there was no tomorrow. but i always thought there was a tomorrow.
but tonight, tomorrow seems impossible to face.
but i will. but i don't know how.
and i know i can't make this "all about me" because that's what my mother would do. and i know that when she hears this, i will feel like a failure.
and even the voice said "i know you, lee, and i know you feel like a failure right now, but that's the farthest thing from the truth."
but is it?
the voice who says "i can't change enough for n. when he comes a few weeks here and there, so it will be easier if he's here all the time."
yes.
so n. can get more of the "leftovers" this way.
because there never is very much left over with the ex. not after he gets done doing everything he wants to do.
and the voice on the other end says "stop crying and get a hold of yourself, after all - maybe this will be good for you - maybe you can relax and enjoy life for a change."
i have enjoyed my life. i haven't wanted to go to movies, hire babysitters, take up hobbies. i have enjoyed (beyond belief) the last four years of finally being able to be a semi-stay-at-home mom.
but there is always that other shoe that lurks in the background.
and for me, it just doesn't work - pretending it isn't there.
i had to write this tonight. i had to feel my fingers against the keyboard because i thought it would lend some degree of reality to what has become my worst nightmare.
and i know when i wake up tomorrow morning it will be simply the first in one endless series of mornings when, in that weird moment before reality hits, i query "what is wrong, something feels wrong . . . what is it?" and then it will come to me all over again. one morning after another. because there will never be a morning that will ever be the same again.
thanks, you guys, for letting me spill my heart and my guts all over the place tonight. it's 11:00 on the west coast and i feel so disconnected. my husband is, i'm sure, at a loss as to what to do or say. my son is working on a project and i feel like he's already gone. and i know i shouldn't feel that way.
and what i prayed for and ached for last november - - - that my ex-husband would finally open his eyes to this visual clone of himself who so desperately craves his attention . . . well, it has happened.
be careful of what you wish for.
and yes.
i know.
it's for the good of my son. but i know his father. and i know he hasn't changed because no one says "i can't change my life for the few weeks he is here" and actually change enough to accomodate a life i have so carefully nourished/nurtured and LOVED.
there aren't enough obscenities to fill this white space. and there will never be enough of anything to fill what i know is the coming void.
Posted by whiterabbit on May 22, 2003, at 7:02:31
In reply to 5/21/03 or how my life slipped over the guardrail , posted by leeran on May 22, 2003, at 1:33:24
Lee-
I know you. I DO know you. Your pain comes through so eloquently that my heart aches for you.HOW FAR AWAY does this man live? Just because your son and your ex have both suddenly decided that they should live together doesn't necessarily mean that this is the best course of action.
Try not to panic. Proceed with caution. Don't agree to ANYTHING until you've had time to calm down a little - don't let them take advantage of your pain and fear to get your son moved out fast, while you're still reeling from such a terrific blow. WHEN and IF you agree to this move, it should be done gradually and under YOUR TERMS.
I don't know enough about your situation to make many specific suggestions but is it possible for you to say that you're not going to allow your son to change schools in the middle of the year?
If you stand on that, it will give you a little time to think. Don't let anyone guilt you into a sudden decision.oh Lee, we can't do much for you out here in cyberland but listen and offer our support and prayers - and try to help each other around the landmines in this long uncertain journey.
((((Lee))))
-Gracie
Posted by Dinah on May 22, 2003, at 9:53:05
In reply to 5/21/03 or how my life slipped over the guardrail , posted by leeran on May 22, 2003, at 1:33:24
I am so sorry, Lee. I can imagine how much that must hurt.
"and yes.
i know.
it's for the good of my son."
I wouldn't exactly say that, Lee. Especially about a man who says "i can't change enough for n. when he comes a few weeks here and there, so it will be easier if he's here all the time." Those aren't the words of a mature, responsible father. Chances are he's not going to be able to change sufficiently to be what your son hopes he will be. And chances are that your son will be hurt. And I know as a mom you would give anything if you could keep your son from hurting.
So it may not be what's best for him. But it may be what he needs to do. Something he needs to find out for himself. I hope that your ex can change, for your boy's sake.
Just keep being a wonderful mom. If it does work out, he won't ever forget that. And if it doesn't, he'll feel free to come home.
And I am sorry, Lee. I know it would make my heart break.
(((Lee)))
Posted by wendy b. on May 22, 2003, at 10:46:18
In reply to 5/21/03 or how my life slipped over the guardrail , posted by leeran on May 22, 2003, at 1:33:24
Dearest Lee,
I can't imagine how painful this must be. You love your son, you've given him the best start he could get, he feels your love. He will make decisions from now on and in the future that you may know RIGHT NOW will break his heart. But you also know he HAS to go through them himself, that's just how it works.
Your anger and fury that you feel toward your ex-husband should never break the surface. To give him the power over you to hurt you - even if he has - is something you don't want to expose. So like Dinah says, you need to get calm in your own time and space. KEEP WRITING, here, or in your hard-drive journal, but keep doing it. Get into the real feelings of how hurt you were by this man, and really name the behaviors and the feelings.
If you have a therapist (I can't remember?), go right away. If you don't, a visit to a trusted physician or a referral to a therapist for even a brief series of visits may be in order. You cannot allow your ex to see this happen to you. And more importantly, you cannot throw onto your son the horrible feelings you have toward his father... because you are right. If he hears what a scum his dad is, he will feel he is worthless, too, in your eyes. My mother made this mistake with me and my siblings, and believe me, it stays with a child for life.
And, Lee, just one more thing: I have had friends to whom this exact thing happened. And you know what? in some instances, the kid returned to the mother in a matter of weeks. The children KNOW who it is that nurtures, and who loves *unconditionally* and in most cases (sorry guys), it IS the mother. It just is.
OR, another scenario: the kid decided to go to the dad in Hawaii for the summer. The dad showed his true stripes right away, and the visit lasted a couple of weeks, and then the daughter high-tailed it back home. This may happen to you all.So PLEASE please please, don't allow yourself to think for a minute that any of these decisions are permanent or set in stone... Communicate this to your son, so that he knows it's ok to change his mind, and that his father has to respect that, and not pressure your son. As you calm down, and this may help you do that, just keep the knowledge in your heart that nothing is forever, that everything changes, and that the decision a teenager makes today will often turn into its opposite in a week.
You've taught your son "how to call a spade a spade," and he's now just spreading his wings and making some decisions. Your best bet is to take your favorite benzo, smile, and adopt a very ZEN approach. You'll see - it will all turn out for the best. Your son will see the polar opposites that you and your ex present, and guess which one will win out?
Meantime, it sounds like the split with your ex had a lot unresolved issues on your part... Might help to really delve into that, like I say, in your journals, with therapy, or with us... Eveyone here has been very very touched by your presence on the board, and you have a TON of support, believe me. We'll do everything that we can.
With all my best wishes and a hug,
Wendy
ps:
Make sure, if your son does go, that you have a *private* way to communicate. He must not be allowed to be cowed by his father so that he cannot be truthful to you over the phone, for example. If he goes, giving him his own cell phone to take along might be a good idea. My ex does this with my daughter (she's younger than your son, even has kept her from phoning me). Another friend's ex made the mother believe her daughter was in Japan for months and months, when if fact, she had been in Virginia all the time. So the moral is: make sure regular, private contact is maintained. Sometimes, in order to get back at the mother, the ex will lie, cheat and steal, and interfere horribly with the child's relationship with the mother. You cannot let that happen.pps:
This reminds me: you may want to get in touch with a family court lawyer, and discuss options and assurances that your ex is bound to uphold, to make certain agreements about the change in living arrangements. For example, maybe a temporary change in the custody or visitation schedule. Or changes can be made on a trial basis, with regular input from your son, legally speaking (he is asked by the court after the trial period if he really wants the change to happen permanently). Don't just send him there without assurances in writing. You still have rights as a mother, and make sure you don't get railroaded into giving up any of them... (just my 2 cents)
Posted by whiterabbit on May 22, 2003, at 11:05:55
In reply to Re: 5/21/03 or how my life slipped over the guardrail , posted by whiterabbit on May 22, 2003, at 7:02:31
Lee honey I wrote my post at 6:00 am before coffee. I guess it IS the middle of the year but not the middle of the SCHOOL year. Cripes I should know better than to make a move before the first caffeine injection.
We're all behind you babe - keep writing.
-Gracie
Posted by leeran on May 22, 2003, at 14:49:59
In reply to Correction, posted by whiterabbit on May 22, 2003, at 11:05:55
Thank you so much for responding. I have three appointments today (gynecologist/dental/mammogram) so I don't have much time to write - but I did want to say how much your responses mean to me.
I felt (still do) so utterly alone last night. Don't get me wrong, my husband is the most supportive person I've ever had in my life, but here's the deal . . . for the last five years - since I've known him - he's been able to salve my pain. Any kind of pain. And for the first time, last night, I realized that the agony I felt wasn't something that he could "salve." And I think that feeling, coupled with being blindsided with news I NEVER expected - or suspected, almost put me over some edge where I've never been.
I don't mean suicide.
I guess I mean extraordinary grief. "Wolves pulling at the entrails" grief. That's the only way I can describe it - and I've never felt it, ever, until last night.
At 2:00 a.m. I looked out the window and wanted to run - or walk - somewhere, anywhere, fast. I'm sure it was panic. I'm pretty certain there's never been a time in my life when I've cried the better part of nine hours, and my sinuses felt like they were going to explode - yet I couldn't stop crying. And I woke up crying. And I'm crying while I write this - and I still have to make it through two dental crowns and a mammogram.
What irony. My physical health (don't know about the mammogram yet - appointment is at 5:00) has never been better. I just got back from the gynecologist and he literally wrote the letter "A" on all the blood work/urine test pages. My cholestrol has never been under 200 as an adult - until today - and it was 197. Last week my blood pressure was 102/60 (today it was 78 on the bottom number - but I'm sure it was due, in part, to the circumstances). Blood sugar 91.
And I've never felt worse.
And I have an admission to make. At 2:00 in the morning I thought "if there's something wrong with the tests tomorrow, that's okay - because I don't have the ***** to do myself in."
Isn't that sick?
And I told my husband that. Even sicker.
Not to hurt him, but because I was babbling and miserable and was trying to think of any avenue that might abbreviate the pain.
But now, more than ever, suicide is not an option. Any suicidal ideation in the past has stopped short when I've thought of what it would do to my family - especially my son and husband (and of course, parents).
And now, it would be even worse. So that door is closed forever.
More than anything, it's been that (control freak that I am) I've always thought that I had a job to do, meaning - getting him raised. I've always known that his dad doesn't have the capability. He won't do the prodding. He's too busy looking over everyone else's shoulder for the next distraction. Despite our son's 6'2" height, he'll never be able to hold his dad's attention.
One of my biggest fears: that my son would turn out to be like his father
And I thought I had dodged the bullet.
I thought, not too long ago, "whew, we've gotten this far and he's never brought it up."
With my husband, he's had an excellent example of how people who love one another should treat each other - and I hope, the same has been true from me.
But, in this vast universe of my love for him - this agape love that's always just "been there," there exists this narrow little tunnel that I've never been able to fill for him: that need for the same kind of love from his father. Something I haven't been able to provide, something I've tried to keep just beyond my peripheral vision and hoped would go away. The same little tunnel of expectation I felt with the same man, but eventually realized was never going to be there.
One thing, totally off-topic that I want to say, no, NEED to say, is that my parents have been totally supportive (I called them this morning) and they have helped me over one of the many little humps that will inevitably come up along the way.
And one last thing . . .
I've said this here before. Our family doctor once told me "Lee, your God is a punitive God."
So, here's the deal (somehow, I think you all will see where this is going and hopefully someone will understand).
It has crossed the very unreasonable part of my gray matter that my "spilling of the beans" in my post about my childhood has wrought this terrible punishment - which is the punishment of losing my son.
I know this is sick and it is obviously just one more reason I need therapy.
Will I lose him? No - not in the literal sense, but nothing will ever be the same. This is a fork in the road.
Again, I can't begin to say how much it has meant to just be able to blurt out my agony in this anonymous stream-of-consciousness manner. Thank you, thank you, thank you for listening/reading . . .
Posted by fallsfall on May 22, 2003, at 20:21:27
In reply to 5/21/03 or how my life slipped over the guardrail , posted by leeran on May 22, 2003, at 1:33:24
I know your agony.
A year and a half ago my youngest daughter went to join her two older siblings at her father's house. He lives only 3 doors down, but when she is living with one parent she spends little time with the other. It happened in the blink of an eye. I became self-injurious. When I got to the hospital they tried to convince me that I wanted to be mad at her, but I could only be mad at myself. I still can't imagine being mad at her. I stumbled through the 6 months until she came back. But she may go again in September, and I don't know how I will handle it.
It is an anguish like no other. I know she loves me, but that doesn't help.
I wish I had happy news for you, but all I can offer is that I have been there, too. And I know the pain. And she did come back, and maybe she will stay. And maybe your son will come back.
Posted by Dinah on May 22, 2003, at 21:48:41
In reply to WhiteRabbit (G), Dinah and WendyB, posted by leeran on May 22, 2003, at 14:49:59
> So, here's the deal (somehow, I think you all will see where this is going and hopefully someone will understand).
>
> It has crossed the very unreasonable part of my gray matter that my "spilling of the beans" in my post about my childhood has wrought this terrible punishment - which is the punishment of losing my son.
>
> I know this is sick and it is obviously just one more reason I need therapy.I do understand. I have long been a great believer in the fates. I don't ascribe it to God, but the fates. If you wish for something, the fates will give it to you in a way that you never intended, and that makes you sorry you ever wished. If you do something bad, something bad will happen.
It causes me to wrap things I say in so many disclaimers, just to confuse the fates. And it is part of what got me that schizotypal diagnosis from my first pdoc.
Therapy has helped. I'm no longer quite as afraid of the fates. Of course, I still respect their power (see, a disclaimer). But I do understand. And in my admittedly biased opinion, it's not sick. It's just conditioning. We've probably had so many instances where it seems to be true, based on our life experiences.
And I suspect you have dodged the bullet. I doubt your son is like his dad. He sounds like a fine young man. Living with his dad for a few months, or a few years if by some chance his dad has changed, isn't going to change that.
But I know it hurts.
Posted by mair on May 25, 2003, at 22:01:44
In reply to 5/21/03 or how my life slipped over the guardrail , posted by leeran on May 22, 2003, at 1:33:24
Lee - I know all of this hurts unbelievably, but it strikes me that you have given your son a wonderful gift. He would not make this move unless he felt secure enough in your love of him. He feels he can do this because he thinks you can handle this decision of his and he thinks you can handle this because you have obviously not been doing anything to undermine his relationship with his father.
I think that wherever possible kids need the mature love of both of their parents. If your ex-husband is now going out of the way to make amends for past sins, all the more power to him because in the long run, this will only benefit your son.
I think no matter how much this hurts, unless this move would be somehow injurious to your son, you need to support him in his decision, while still letting him know that you will always be there for him if he decides he wants to move back.
I know none of this is very comforting but in the long run both you and your son will be better off for whatever has been done to make him feel that he's not hurting one parent by choosing to be with another.
Mair
Posted by lil' jimi on May 29, 2003, at 13:24:53
In reply to 5/21/03 or how my life slipped over the guardrail , posted by leeran on May 22, 2003, at 1:33:24
hi lee,
you did a great job of expressing yourself without profanity .... truly masterful.
and, oooooh, i know you could have used some of that expletive vocabulary.....Because You have been RIPPED OFF!!
You (YOU!!) put in the hard (and some (?) not so hard) 15 Years of Good Work ..... not to mention conception (well, .... never mind), gestation (!) and Labor! (!!!) and then the life-affirming nurturing and LOVING (!!!) 24/7 for nearly 15 years !!!!
..... Only to have to that sneaky, snarky, snakey Ex-hub-bar-bear-ian swoop down out of those dark clouds like a vulture, snatching up our brave, smart, strong, young-one in those self-involved, self-indulgent, self-centered talons ....
... oddly the sky was clear and bright just before that unscheduled total solar eclipse of your love and life .....
.... so there is that sudden ANGER: vengeful, furious and ...... devastated.
lee lee, i do not know how to get close to the pain you are suffering, but i have imagined how bad it might be ...... and i am so sorry for you ..... you are a very good person and you deserve better than this!
anyway, lee, i have managed to think of one thing that could be of some (small?) consolation to you ....
i remember from my college abnormal psychology course that there were “twin” studies done on alcoholism where the incidence of alcoholism in both identical and fraternal twins is measured and compared with the incidence of alcoholism in their parents .... typically these studies use twins who have been separated at birth in order to separate genetic factors from the environmental factors .... the statistics comparing the parents to the offspring and the identical twins to each other versus the fraternal twins to each other strongly suggested an overwhelming genetic influence in alcoholism .....
... (sorry this is so round about) ...
... there was one curious co-relation though: offspring brought up in an alcoholic environment (i.e., in the home of an alcoholic parent) had a significantly LOWER incidence of alcoholism than did the offspring who grew up away from the alcoholic environment .... why?
because the twin with a genetic predisposition for alcoholism who lives with an afflicted parent has the benefit (!) of a Negative Role Model to reject ..... whereas, the twins with a genetic weakness towards alcoholism who are raised outside of an alcoholic environment, lose out on the experience of the cautionary tale that is the life of an alcoholic, and so, get no warnings and succumb to alcoholism a higher rate.
(mention of alcoholism here is for purposes of analogy ONLY and certainly not because i am suggesting there is any alcoholism among any members of anybody’s family ....... in my analogy alcoholism is symbolic of any possible negative character traits.)
.... all of which is my (way!) long-winded way of suggesting that we may well expect that your son should get a load of his old man close up and long-term and get to figure out what you know already about ol’ Ex-o, and el young-one will have the hope and blessing to learn what to reject from Ex-o’s best negative role modeling .... eventually. ..... And grow into a man accordingly.
according to this theory, your boy will come home to you better for your sacrifice-you-make-now by being afforded this chance to grow out of and beyond his father’s deficits ... ... and, we may not unreasonably expect, your loving boy (and sooo soon to be a man!) will appreciate the suffering you are going through now because you are exercising the very great goodness which is expected from every parent ..... you are letting him go ..... and grow up ..... without you there .... because you love him so.
well, expecting him to explicitly thank you is too hyperbolic, really, .... however, when you see he has matured and managed to grow beyond his ol’ man, when he has taught himself the wisdom that you have about your Ex-o, when has learned to handle that relationship and to be stronger for it, when he has grown up into the better person than his dad could ever be ......
then you will have the best thanks any parent could hope for and your boy will be that good (better!) (best!) adult man that you could hope for.
hope ..... jim’s offering a lot of hope there .... and not a lot else.
so,
now all we have to do is to find some way to help our good kind ms lee to get beyond this pain from being so ripped off and to help her out of all of this suffering here ........i’m working on it!
love and prayers,
~ jimp.s. please post here when you feel up to it .... a lot of folks here want to hear how you are doing and would like to offer their support in these, your dark days.
~ j
Posted by noa on May 29, 2003, at 17:04:20
In reply to 5/21/03 or how my life slipped over the guardrail , posted by leeran on May 22, 2003, at 1:33:24
Lee, I'm sorry I'm only just now chiming in. I am so sorry about this crisis. I hope you are taking care of yourself through it.
This is the end of the thread.
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