![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 2 to 26 of 26. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on May 8, 2003, at 8:36:39
In reply to Disturbing news., posted by Questionmark on May 8, 2003, at 2:38:49
I'm not sure that this will make your outlook any better, but it's my opinion that rampant cruelty is nothing new in this world. If anything, society is probably less tolerant of it now.
It wasn't all that long ago that that sort of behavior towards people of a different race or sexual orientation was tacitly accepted by the general population. Hazing of kids was just as bad. Tormenting children who were a bit different was just "kids being kids". There were no classes for kids on conflict resolution or sensitivity training.
And, as I've said before, it hasn't been that long in the scheme of things since a public flogging or execution was a nice family event. Pack a lunch, bring granny and the kids, and cheer on the execution.
Not to even mention the ethnic and religious hatreds going on for milennia up to and including today, where atrocities are commonplace.
I think it says something good about our society today that that story *was* news.
Bullying is my own special cause, and I've done tons of research. I know that in no time on earth has it been given the attention and concern it is being given today.
May the trend continue.
Posted by gabbix2 on May 8, 2003, at 11:26:03
I hear so much of how society is getting so cruel.
I really think though, that we are more outraged now at violence than we ever have been.
I don't think packing a lunch to watch the public hanging would go over very well these days, nor would a lynching, or witch trials, or impaling people for the "entertainment" of watching them die, feeding Christians to the lions... I'm not saying this kind of hideous cruelty does not exist sometimes its just well disguised sometimes not. I'm saying its at least in most cases not legal, and not tolerated. I think that does show a great deal of improvement
and for me hope.
Posted by ayuda on May 8, 2003, at 13:56:56
In reply to Disturbing news., posted by Questionmark on May 8, 2003, at 2:38:49
As a professional historian, I know people today do not understand this or believe it, but we are actually more progressive and less violent than people were in the past, and yes, that includes whatever people are calling the gold old glory days in which these things never happened, a time period that doesn't exist (every generation since the ancient Sumerians in 3000 B.C.E. has written about how the younger generation has no morals and doesn't respect the ways of the past, that things are getting worse, etc. -- it's humbling to see it in the first written records of mankind from 5000 years ago, and still be true).
These instances are not only not as common as similar acts in the past, they also come with much more moral stigma attached. Just that you know about it - the media attention to these kinds of things is something that is really as recent as the Vietnam War - and that you are outraged, you have a leg up on people from biblical times or people from medieval times or even people from 100 years ago. Being able to broadcast these things in the media takes them out in the open, where these things were not, even in the 1950s, and certainly before, when our society acted like these things just didn't happen (but they did, it just wasn't popular knowledge).
As Dinah mentioned, and this is not to be overlooked, less than 50 years ago, gangs of white people would take black men out of their homes in the middle of the night, beat them until they were urecognizable, then hang or dispose of their bodies in public ceremony. Men, women and children participated in these atrocities of lynching, and nothing was ever done to bring justice to the sufferers, victimizing whole communities.
Just 40 years ago, and maybe even more recently, it was NOT a crime for a white man to rape a black woman, or a crowd of white men to rape a defenseless black woman. If she survived the brutal attack, she couldn't take them to court - it wasn't a crime.
A hundred years ago, it was okay to beat the crap out of your wife and children, it wasn't a crime. It was okay to deny a job to a person based upon their race or ethnicity, it wasn't a crime. And women could commit murder and get away with it, because it was assumed that they weren't in control of themselves in the first place.
Every time someone says to me, the world is getting worse, I tell them, do the research I do, read the things I read, read the newspapers from the 1930s, read the magazines of the 1950s, read the un-cut reports of wars and family relations and "terrorism" that happened on a daily basis and a large scale. Knowing what I know, I am saddened that people still stoop to acting like animals, but I am not surprised.
Just feel lucky that you personally can tell the difference between right and wrong. But these things don't happen every day. And when they do, there is outrage, and there is justice - sometimes, not always.
I think that the problem we all have is not so much that society is backsliding, but that you would think that as technology and education and science, etc., increase, people would act like better human beings than they ever have, and the problem is, they don't. Many still act like the vicious dogs that people were when the Germanic tribes invaded the Roman empire, or when czarist Russia forced the Jews into pogroms, or when the crusades were fought in the name of religion, destroying thousands of people over property rights to the Holy Land, a fight that has yet to cease. People are kinder to each other, even in war, these days than in biblical times, in the Roman Empire, in ancient Greece. That's not saying much, I will admit, but it is true. Sad, but true.
Getting back to the Chicago thing, though, that such a large group participated in it doesn't surprise me, but the viciousness makes me wonder, what in the heck do you spoiled middle class children have to be so angry about? That you are too privileged in life? That you've had it too easy? Well, congratulations, you just made life harder on yourself and others.
Posted by gabbix2 on May 8, 2003, at 14:06:16
In reply to I don't believe society is getting worse., posted by gabbix2 on May 8, 2003, at 11:26:03
also. I'm sorry, that didn't sound very empathetic, that news story was disturbing, and depressing
Posted by Snoozy on May 8, 2003, at 14:57:23
In reply to Disturbing news., posted by Questionmark on May 8, 2003, at 2:38:49
I really appreciate what Dinah and ayuda had to say. Our standards of what is acceptable behavior have changed, and we now hear though the news about things that violate these standards.
I was talking with someone a few weeks ago about how there seems to be a mean streak in our culture recently (the US anyway - I hope it's not a global phenomenon!) Look at the popularity of these tv shows that are based on entertaining the viewer by putting a human through degrading situations, or laughing at their expense. Those shows pain me.
I relate to your feeling about cruelty and suffering in the world Questionmark. A couple of months ago, I had to stop watching the news, I just couldn't take it anymore. I've also been struggling with the unbelievable amount of suffering that goes on in this world.
Posted by bobby on May 8, 2003, at 14:59:52
In reply to Re: Disturbing news. » Questionmark, posted by ayuda on May 8, 2003, at 13:56:56
I must be old because I'm starting to sound like my Dad and grandfather. I remember when people would people would ride past and throw up their hand---now they only use one finger. Kids could sit on grandpa's lap without fear of being molested. You could eat all the Halloween candy you wanted without fear of biting down on a razorblade or poison.People knew their neighbors---now they sue their neighbors. The cars actually stopped for a red light. There were good preachers that you went to hear and eat lunch with them after services instead of turning on the t.v. to hear one pleading for money--now they'll take your money and your wife and kids. The families did things together--now many don't even know there families(some do and wish they did'nt). A father was someone to look up to---not someone to look out for(unless you were sneaking a cigarette). Crack was something that let air in through a window or a door or something that could be fixed with glue. Gangs were friends who were good enough to come up in your tree house or go to the saturday matinee with. Hoe's were garden tools--not girlfiends. you could buy a new car and actually pay for it before you had to have major repairs---by an honest mechanic. The only aids we knew were lemonade and bandaid. And of course the major decision of the day was m & ms or hershey's kisses. All those things seem so real to my memory--at least what's left of it. So I guess that kingdoms will rise and fall an among them all will be young and old bickering over the changing times.
Bobby
Posted by noa on May 8, 2003, at 20:07:24
In reply to Disturbing news., posted by Questionmark on May 8, 2003, at 2:38:49
I HOPE there is hope.
I also found that story extremely disturbing. I just don't get it. I mean, why anyone wants to do those things. It seems so incredibly primitive!!
Hazing has been banned from most colleges after some deaths. It seemed to me that the school handled it badly. They had heard there might be hazing, had forbidden it, and then on Friday, when they saw the kids in their jerseys, had questioned them about it again, but the kids were all mum. So what, the school took the silence to mean there would be no hazing? Or that the school had no responsibility at that point? They could have guessed that the lack of cooperation on the students' part when questioned was a good indication of the likelihood that something could happen. They should have notified parents and maybe even the police.
I think the police will be prosecuting.
I only hope this publicized case will raise awareness, like previous deaths on college campuses did a few years back, and got the colleges to take action (I have no idea, however, if the colleges have kept up the vigilance or how successful they've been in preventing hazing).
It is extremely discouraging. But remember, the news often focuses on all the bad stuff, but there is good stuff happening, too. We just need to look at it more.
Posted by noa on May 8, 2003, at 20:11:22
In reply to Re: Disturbing news. » Questionmark, posted by ayuda on May 8, 2003, at 13:56:56
Yes, I know that and often feel appreciative to live now and here and not somewhere where my safety would be nil, or at a time when my safety would be nil, or I'd be oppressed and exposed to all manner of cruelty and hardship.
It wasn't that long ago when public executions were a form of entertainment. I only hope we don't revive that primitive spectacle.
Posted by noa on May 8, 2003, at 20:15:50
In reply to I don't believe society is getting worse., posted by gabbix2 on May 8, 2003, at 11:26:03
>>I don't think packing a lunch to watch the public hanging would go over very well these days
I think you're right about the other stuff, but I'm not so sure about the execution thing. I actually think there is a possibility that executions will become another "reality TV" phenomenon at some point. I think it a horrible idea, of course, but I think there are people who want executions televised.
Posted by gabbix2 on May 8, 2003, at 22:13:51
In reply to Re: I don't believe society is getting worse., posted by noa on May 8, 2003, at 20:15:50
That kind of thing has always been available if one wanted to look for it, and no, I wouldn't be surprised if it became the stuff of reality t.v but I still don't think it would become an accepted "family entertainment" affair but more of a guilty pleasure. I don't think the people who watch it are going to feel free to talk about it to just anyone.
I'm not saying morally "reality t.v" is any better at all. My point is that I don't think society accepts this violence voyerism as easily as it once did. I also thing its important that a lethal injection execution distances us more from the actual death. Watching a hanging would I think lower the numbers in the viewing audience.
Posted by horrid monster on May 8, 2003, at 22:19:25
In reply to Disturbing news., posted by Questionmark on May 8, 2003, at 2:38:49
This news story was VERY disturbing to me. The reason this story was the lead in on so many television news shows was precisely because so many people find it disturbing. Remember that song "Dirty Laundry"? (I think that's what it's called) And the reason it is big news is because it is NOT the norm.
I think most people are good and kind. It's just that good and kind is kind of dull and boring when it comes to tv news.
It'll be really frighteniung to me when these sort of stories no longer are news worthy.
-horrid monster
Posted by lostsailor on May 8, 2003, at 23:27:32
In reply to Re: I don't believe society is getting worse., posted by gabbix2 on May 8, 2003, at 22:13:51
It may not be getting worse, but sadly not advancing either and that is a tad sad.
Discrimination is illegal for the most part, but still exists. "Witch" trials do not happen any longer, per se, and almost all religions are tolerated in the eyes of those that are deciding which religion is right.
--unless you are a pagan, Buddhist, Christian, Muslim ectInfidelity seems in vogue.
Neatly packaged meats, definitely make the animal in them suffer less.
With the advent of forensic science we can prove that we execute the wrong people more often and often let the guilty free after. Society does not like to admit they executed an individual that did not kill anyone and then put the real killer on person for another trial, so they are usually let go
There is more, I am sure, but you get the jist...!!!
~me
Posted by justyourlaugh on May 8, 2003, at 23:56:10
In reply to I don't believe society is getting worse--my view, posted by lostsailor on May 8, 2003, at 23:27:32
oneday i was called up...
to sell me "their" idea of god....i was told horrid things about how our society was failing...
truth be told..."his facts were wrong"
at the end of the conversation....my questioning about "why are you not in school?",,...blah blah blah..not that i was "right"...but i felt i gave him another insight...cant see evil from rose coloured glasses........
j
Posted by justyourlaugh on May 9, 2003, at 0:10:00
In reply to Disturbing news., posted by Questionmark on May 8, 2003, at 2:38:49
?
one of the buckets was thrown..big bleeding gash..15 stiches...one girl had her ankle broke..why? why ? why?
someone i never met before,,beep her horn and waved going past me today..she lives up the street...
the woman at the cashier at "iga" said she thought about me last weekend when the wheather was nice....
there is good
all we need is love..everybody now...lol
j
Posted by ayuda on May 9, 2003, at 0:23:16
In reply to ?, posted by justyourlaugh on May 9, 2003, at 0:10:00
> ?
> one of the buckets was thrown..big bleeding gash..15 stiches...one girl had her ankle broke..why? why ? why?
> someone i never met before,,beep her horn and waved going past me today..she lives up the street...
> the woman at the cashier at "iga" said she thought about me last weekend when the wheather was nice....
> there is good
> all we need is love..everybody now...lol
> jYou are right - I really believe that each individual person has within them the ability to be good and kind to everyone, has the knowledge of how to treat people, and should listen to THOSE voices instead of the ones that tell them to hurt or humiliate others, or giving into the peer pressure to hurt people.
Why is there never positive peer pressure? Where are the kids who lean on you to volunteer for Habitat for Humanity or you can't be considered cool?
In the midst of all of our national "problems" in the middle east, I have recently made a great friend who is studying here on a student visa from the middle east. He is from a country that is friendly to the U.S., and he loves the U.S., but he is treated like dirt by INS and by people in general, because you can tell he is an Arab. He is one of the sweetest guys I've ever met, and his wife is very nice, too. I am so glad to have met them, and when I hear people say stupid, uninformed things about Muslims or Arabs, I've always gotten mad at the narrowmindedness, but now I know for sure that there are good people everywhere and in all walks of life.
Most people are good. It is just the bad ones that make the headlines. I wish there was a newspaper that was only about good news from around the world! I wonder if it would sell well? Or a tv news station that only did good news, happy news, uplifting news - not the ones led by moral crusaders, but a non-sectarian, cross-cultural, international happy news station. Wouldn't that be a relief?
Posted by justyourlaugh on May 9, 2003, at 1:36:24
In reply to Re: ? » justyourlaugh, posted by ayuda on May 9, 2003, at 0:23:16
ayu,
i am so jaded,,
i dont associate with "real"beings...
i do believe there is good in all...
but i do not want molesters in my heaven or hell,
the "kids" today are so lost because there is no mama to tell them ..or be there enough for them to see..they are important,loved,special..and to be there to say"dinner is at 5"where are you going"wait!!!!ill come tooo...."
Posted by ayuda on May 9, 2003, at 9:51:58
In reply to Re: ?ayu,, posted by justyourlaugh on May 9, 2003, at 1:36:24
> ayu,
> i am so jaded,,
> i dont associate with "real"beings...
> i do believe there is good in all...
> but i do not want molesters in my heaven or hell,
> the "kids" today are so lost because there is no mama to tell them ..or be there enough for them to see..they are important,loved,special..and to be there to say"dinner is at 5"where are you going"wait!!!!ill come tooo...."
>My sister is one of those moms - because our parents were that way, and we still believe (no matter how f***ed up we think our parents were, and they really were), they did get it right that their job was to make sure that we grew up to be responsible adults who knew how to take care of a home and knew that we had to support ourselves -- and each other. And we all -- my entire family is involved in the raising of her children -- remind those kids every day that they are being groomed to being decent adults (and they will be decent teenagers), so get used to it.
While my father turned out to be quite abusive (my sister refuses to physically punish her children because of her trauma - I just refuse to have children), still, when I see people doing things to others, like those girls in Chicago or anywhere, I think that they could've benefited from being raised by him. Because behavior like that would leave your buttocks sore and in your room (no tvs, stereos, etc. in those rooms!) for a long, long time. And you would be greeted by him reminding you of why for a while, and a lot of extra chores, until you good and learned that lesson. None of my dad's children ever, ever, would be caught pulling stuff like those girls. Not on EITHER side of it, victim or victimizer.
Like I said in my first post, I don't even know what they have to be so angry about to be so abusive. I was really a physically abused teenager and still don't have that kind of anger or meanness within me. Maybe because I was abused I am more empathetic towards people, but it shouldn't have to take that to create empathetic people.
But to also answer to one of your other points, for as much as my sister dotes on her children and is 100+% involved in their lives, her daughter was still molested by a neighborhood teenager who was their babysitter last summer. We know this kids family for generations, been their neighbors for more than 40 years (it is a small, remote rural community) -- you just never know how these things are going to slip through the cracks. My sister is beside herself with grief over this, but my niece is handling it very well -- strong girl, I'll tell you.
Sometimes I really hate people in general. Then I remember that there are people to whom I am telling that, and people who are just as outraged as I at abuse and molestation, etc., and I can't stay mad at all of humanity. Like I said in my first post, you just would think that at some point in history people would start acting better towards each other, but no, human nature resists change over thousands of years. How primitive are we?
Posted by justyourlaugh on May 9, 2003, at 17:37:22
In reply to Re: ?ayu, » justyourlaugh, posted by ayuda on May 9, 2003, at 9:51:58
ayu,,
i was abused less than a year ago..
it almost killed me..
how can kids deal with it...
??
Posted by gabbix2 on May 9, 2003, at 18:40:22
In reply to I don't believe society is getting worse--my view, posted by lostsailor on May 8, 2003, at 23:27:32
> It may not be getting worse, but sadly not advancing either and that is a tad sad.
>
> Discrimination is illegal for the most part, but still exists.I don't think the fact that something is illegal can be over valued though, that to me speaks of a huge advancement in thinking.
Especially when it was the upper 'classes' the leaders who encouraged the abuses in the past. To be able to bring a discrimination case to court is an amazing advancement. Granted the actual resolution of such cases have a long way to go, but this has happened in an extremely short period of time people's attitude's have not had a chance to catch up yet."Witch" trials do not happen any longer, per se, and almost all religions are tolerated in the eyes of those that are deciding which religion is right.
> --unless you are a pagan, Buddhist, Christian, Muslim ectI'm not quite clear on what you meant there.
But I do think "intolerence' is mild compared to systematic torture and stoning.
>
> Infidelity seems in vogue.It could easily be argued that "fidelity" and marriage were convenient inventions ways to keep women from owning property and a way for a man to know that any offspring were his own.
I'm saying that "could be argued" and there is plenty to back that up. I'm just not going to do it here, because its not really the place for it.
So to some women the ability to be free or 'unfaithful is a good thing along with that choice came the freedom to learn about her body, to choose birth control, to not be 'owned' by her husband , to not wear a chastity belt and die of blood poisoning, to not have parts of her body removed because she's considered "frigid" (1950)
>
> Neatly packaged meats, definitely make the animal in them suffer less.The acknowledgement that animals are sentient and suffer is although not believed by all, at least accepted and it wasn't more than 200 years ago that was a laughable idea
>
> >
> There is more, I am sure, but you get the jist...!!!I think I do see your point, I doagree these things do exist, but the fact that you find them repugnant says that we expect more of ourselves than previous generations did that Things that were acceptable even 60 years ago are not today. I think that says ethically we are improving, and have been all along.
Posted by Dinah on May 9, 2003, at 23:27:34
In reply to Re: I don't believe society is getting worse--my view, posted by gabbix2 on May 9, 2003, at 18:40:22
That's my view too, Gabbi. And very well worded.
Posted by lostsailor on May 9, 2003, at 23:34:35
In reply to Re: I don't believe society is getting worse--my view, posted by gabbix2 on May 9, 2003, at 18:40:22
laws are good when properly enforced. I see progress, but not the kind that seems to be advertised. I think society, or much of it, is cruel by just laziness of not learning about one another and becoming tolerant of many things
"witch" trials do not happen any longer, per se, and almost all religions are tolerated in the eyes of those that are deciding which religion is right.
> --unless you are a pagan, Buddhist, Christian, Muslim ectI'm not quite clear on what you meant there.
But I do think "intolerance' is mild compared to systematic torture and stoning.
>
What I meant is we, the US ( and Canada, too, right?) promise religious freedom, but does that really pawn out.Can a pagan skip school for summer solstice, can an orthodox Jew where his ("hat) for lack of netter word with out teen ridicule, are the Muslim communities looked at more suspiciously lately...??? Are people of other faiths still scared to practice them I guess is what I mean.
Not sure of Canada, although it seems I have spent most of my life there, but here there are still hate crimes against Jews, Buddhists, native Americans you came it here.
The fidelity thing I have a feeling is best left be. I am totally understanding of many things, many all I meant was the act of EITHER partner going out and having affairs on there partner without consent or.... I don't know, but it had nothing to do with stifling sexuality or ownership, but merely an "promise" bet two or more, I guess, individuals.
>>I think I do see your point, I do agree these things do exist, but the fact that you find them repugnant says that we expect more of ourselves than previous generations did that Things that were acceptable even 60 years ago are not today. I think that says ethically we are improving, and have been all along.<<
You do I think, Gabbix, but the going is slow. The majority of people seem to not only see behind the pre pack meats but still see free range farms and not factories, though.
Oh heck,
I don't know what I am talking aboutIn peace,
~tony
Posted by gabbix2 on May 10, 2003, at 10:35:48
In reply to Re: I don't believe society is getting worse--my view » gabbix2, posted by Dinah on May 9, 2003, at 23:27:34
Dinah that compliment made my morning,
and gave me one of those warm shivers I can't ever describe properly.
Posted by gabbix2 on May 10, 2003, at 15:16:13
In reply to Re: I don't believe society is getting worse--my , posted by lostsailor on May 9, 2003, at 23:34:35
I understand the frustration, Tony, I do.
but your frustration is my point. We expect perfection. We expect it because we are ethical human beings who abhor injustice. Do you think its a fluke that just about everyone on this board wants an end to discrimination? I think its a sign that we expect a great deal of ourselves as human beings.
Posted by WorryGirl on May 12, 2003, at 9:38:27
In reply to Disturbing news., posted by Questionmark on May 8, 2003, at 2:38:49
> Caution: please, do not read this if you do not want to read something that may be extremely disturbing and discouraging.
>
> i was feeling pretty decent today (not Good but much better than i usually do i think), and at one point i even had a thought run through my head that was something like, "yeah, the world sucks, but i should try to live with it and improve it as best i can." Then just like an hour later i was watching the News and i saw the story about this highschool girl "powderpuff" (whatever that means) football team in Chicago, and how the senior girls were "hazing" (as they said) the junior girls. They showed clips of it on the news (i guess someone videotaped it). The senior girls were basically beating the **** out of the junior girls: punching em, kicking em, dumping paint on them, smearing dirt on their faces, and (according to the news, "some people said they were..") smearing animal feces on their faces and forcing them to eat animal parts. They showed footage of all this. The girls were just crying for help; lying in the grass; helpless. Then it showed some f***ing girl (presumably one of the seniors), afterward, and she said something like "I don't see what the big deal is. It's not like anyone died or anything." SPOILED EVIL LITTLE B*TCH!!!! It was f***ing sick. i'm serious, it was SO freakin disturbing to me. And it made me depressed as s**t. Highschool girls. The evil; the cruelty. It just blows my mind. i wish all those involved could be put in prison for life, or better yet, just ... .
> Seriously though, people. It just makes me see how bad the world is getting again. The cruelty, the callousness, the lack of empathy or compassion or love. And it kills the love for humans inside me, too. i mean how can i love people like this? i'm just filled with hatred toward them. OH i just wanna freakin... Ah and those girls who did that crap will probably just get off easy and continue to live their selfish lives, wounding those in their way; indifferent to the pain of others. Makes me sick. Makes me sick. Sick to my wretched heart.
> Is this the next generation? Yes, it is, isn't it? This is an example of the callous indifference and selfishness of so many people in my generation. When this generation gets older, and they are controlling things, and the next generation of young people (their kids) are growing up, and all the older people of the present are mostly all dead... it's REALLY going to be a sad, sick society. It is, isn't it? It's only going to get worse. No matter what. The rampant egotism, selfishness, arrogance, cruelty, and lack of courtesy compassion kindness and love-- it's only going to grow and grow, isn't it? This is the world i have to look forward to. This is the world i am fighting for. This is the world that children are growing up in! Sickening. Yes, i hate this world.
> This kind of crap just gives me such a deep hatred of people-- not all of them, but in general. i detest our species. the worst curse of the earth. Yes, people like those girls-- they make me hate this world. They make me lose almost all hope in humanity. Is this the future of our society, and of our world? If so, it seems hopeless. Does it not? Ah, i am sickened. The world is going to be utterly terrible in the next generation. As if it wasn't bad enough already. Yes, the world goes in cycles of progression and regression. But i don't want anymore regression. i'm sick of all the pain and cruelty. There's been far too much, far too frequently, for far too long. But i'm afraid the world is only going to get terribly worse.
> Please tell me i'm wrong. Please tell me there is hope.
I definitely think there's hope. This post should probably go on the faith board because I believe that sometime, possibly in our lifetime, a Saviour will save us from this wretched world if we choose to accept the gift.What I see is a world that has become colder to each other in general. Fortunately, there are, and always will be, genuinely kind, caring people out there. They just seem to be getting fewer and farther between.
I'm not in the best mood right now, so if I had answered this question on a different day, I might not have sounded as gloomy as probably do.
Posted by Questionmark on May 15, 2003, at 0:17:50
In reply to Re: Disturbing news. » Questionmark, posted by WorryGirl on May 12, 2003, at 9:38:27
Thank you, all of you, for your responses.
i guess it is true that humanity has probably been considerably worse in much of past history than we are now. In some ways this is even more depressing, but, i am very glad to believe that society is not necessarily becoming worse and worse (though in some ways it surely is-- but overall probably not). So thanks. i'd like to comment on all the interesting & insightful posts but it'd take too long.
Many of you had really good points about how humanity has always been cruel and what not, and how society and the world are, overall, progressing. i must say also though that Snoozy and Bobby brought up some great points about how the opposite seems true-- that society seems to be getting worse. ..Just wanted to mention that.
There is still a lot of good in the world, and you helped remind me of that. The catch is, the "good" can't give up. Ah, i'm tired and not talking very coherently. But anyway, thank you all again.
This is the end of the thread.
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