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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Eggy on May 2, 2003, at 13:32:07
Just a question. A thought came to mind so I ask you because I do not know the answer. Is it illegal to take my medical records without permission. Say if the Dr. left the room and I left with my medical records. I was just wondering how much our records are really ours. Can we simply walk off with them?
Posted by WorryGirl on May 2, 2003, at 15:17:55
In reply to Stealing medical records??, posted by Eggy on May 2, 2003, at 13:32:07
Hi Eggy (love that name!),
Legally, I don't know the answer to your question, but ethically I would think that you have every right to your medical records, although taking them without the doctor's permission might bar you from seeing that doctor again. Since everything is computerized these days, at least they should be able to print out additional copies.
I always assumed that you COULD request copies of your medical records as long as you are of legal age and not considered dangerous or mentally unstable. I definitely don't know this for a fact and would love to know the answer myself.
Mental health records are probably not viewable to the patient, since, for obvious reasons, the patient may or may not be stable enough to view them.
Good luck
Posted by Greg on May 2, 2003, at 17:23:20
In reply to Stealing medical records??, posted by Eggy on May 2, 2003, at 13:32:07
Eggy,
Where I live, California, you have a legal right to view your medical records. Many doctors will make copies of them for you if you like. But there are those doctors who don't feel like you have a right to see what they've written about you and will force you to take the legal route to get them. A pain in the butt, but the right way to go about it. They are your records, but often times you have to follow the proper channels to get them.
As far as just picking them up from your doctor's desk and walking off with them, here, that is theft, pure and simple. If you're considering doing this, give it a second thought. It's not worth the possible legal ramifications.
All the best,
Greg> Just a question. A thought came to mind so I ask you because I do not know the answer. Is it illegal to take my medical records without permission. Say if the Dr. left the room and I left with my medical records. I was just wondering how much our records are really ours. Can we simply walk off with them?
Posted by justyourlaugh on May 2, 2003, at 18:06:26
In reply to Re: Stealing medical records?? » Eggy, posted by Greg on May 2, 2003, at 17:23:20
egg,
my md makes a point of writting down information infront of me.to him my health is a "joint effort"
my pdoc is always scribbling in his note pad..i wish i could see it....
j
Posted by whiterabbit on May 2, 2003, at 19:28:13
In reply to Re: Stealing medical records??, posted by justyourlaugh on May 2, 2003, at 18:06:26
Yes, this is theft so you probably could be prosecuted for such an action. I'm an x-ray technologist and I've had to explain this to patients on many occasions when they strolled into the office and asked for their x-rays.
X-rays are also medical records so I assume that the same rules apply.I've heard time and time again, "What do you mean I can't have my x-rays? They're mine and I paid for them!" Well, sorry, but they're not yours. When you (or, most likely, your insurance company) are billed for x-rays, what you are paying for is a service: to have a technologist perform the exam, and to have a doctor determine the results and make a diagnosis. But the x-rays themselves are the legal property of the medical facility where you were treated, and so are your medical records.
Now, this doesn't have anything to do with your right to see your medical records and to seek a second opinion, if that's what you want them for.
They're not "secret" or classified or anything,
you have every right to see them. But just like you're charged for every bandaid and aspirin, you'll most likely be charged for copies of your medical records. Not that paper is expensive, but again you're being charged for a service. The same thing applies to x-ray copies.I'm sure you understand why any medical facility MUST keep a record of the treatment you recieve.
A doctor relies on these records to keep track of your progress as his patient. Even if you don't plan on returning, another doctor may need to request copies of your records to continue treatment. And finally, doctors are sued right and left, all the time. That's why their malpractice insurance is so expensive and another reason why you pay so freaking much for medical coverage these days. Medical records and x-rays are necessary for the doctor to explain (or justify) his diagnosis and treatment, and as such they are legal records admissable in a court of law. That's why you could be prosecuted for stealing them.Let me add here that if your doctor refers you to another doctor or treatment center, copies of your records and/or x-rays should be supplied to you for free. It's not a law but it's kind of low-class not to do so. Also, if you're changing doctors, you can have the new doctor's office request copies of your medical records, and that way they'll be mailed or faxed over at no cost to you. Some hospitals will let you "sign out" your original x-rays with the understanding that you're responsible for their return.
Finished.
-Gracie
Posted by Eggy on May 2, 2003, at 20:05:46
In reply to More than you want to know about medical records, posted by whiterabbit on May 2, 2003, at 19:28:13
It sounded so simple to just take them. I know I have rights to receive copies of most of the info in my records but it just sounded easier and funner to just snipe them
Posted by leeran on May 2, 2003, at 21:36:32
In reply to Well darn, posted by Eggy on May 2, 2003, at 20:05:46
Eggy,
Your post struck me as quite funny (not funny that you want to see your records, I understand that completely).
It's raining here and I did something incredibly stupid today, so maybe I just needed something to smile about when you entered, stage left, with this post.
The mental image of you (someone I don't even know) making off like a jewel thief with your manila folder tucked under your arm before your therapist/psychiatrist can scribble "suspected kleptomaniac*" seems like something straight out of a movie.
Thanks for your post. I loved it.
Lee
*this isn't meant in an uncivil manner, it's a reply in the same mirthful spirit as this "well darn" post :-)
Posted by whiterabbit on May 2, 2003, at 21:50:39
In reply to Well darn, posted by Eggy on May 2, 2003, at 20:05:46
Posted by coral on May 2, 2003, at 22:18:09
In reply to Stealing medical records??, posted by Eggy on May 2, 2003, at 13:32:07
Direct from the AMA Code of Ethics
E-7.02 Records of Physicians: Information and Patients.
Notes made in treating a patient are primarily for the physician’s own use and constitute his or her personal property. However, on request of the patient, a physician should provide a copy or a summary of the record to the patient or to another physician, an attorney, or other person designated by the patient.Most states have enacted statutes that authorize patient access to medical records. These statutes vary in scope and mechanism for permitting patients to review or copy medical records. Access to mental health records, particularly, may be limited by statute or regulation. A physician should become familiar with the applicable laws, rules, or regulations on patient access to medical records.
The record is a confidential document involving the patient-physician relationship and should not be communicated to a third party without the patient’s prior written consent, unless required by law or to protect the welfare of the individual or the community. Medical reports should not be withheld because of an unpaid bill for medical services. Physicians may charge a reasonable fee for copying medical records. (IV) Issued prior to April 1977; Updated June 1994.
Posted by mmcasey on May 3, 2003, at 12:39:56
In reply to Re: Stealing medical records??, posted by coral on May 2, 2003, at 22:18:09
I don't know if you mean mainly mental health records or physical health, but I have requested to see both from doctors/therapists.
Medical records (info in your chart) does not seem to be a problem to request if you want it. As for mental health, it seems a bit more complicated. You can't really have the "notes" of a doctor or therapist, but you can have chart information. I think it depends on the state though. I would love to get all of my medical and mental health records, just because I do feel like I am entitled to them, and they interest me.
When I requested to see my chart from my school's counseling services, it was this big ordeal. Both my therapist and the director of counseling services had to be there while I looked at it. It was very fascinating to me, and not alarming or anything. They didn't give me a copy or anything, just that hour or so of looking through it. But I would imagine if I wanted a copy I could request that too. Maybe I'll do that.
Take care,
Meghan
Posted by mmcasey on May 3, 2003, at 12:41:47
In reply to Re: Stealing medical records?? » coral, posted by mmcasey on May 3, 2003, at 12:39:56
Posted by Eggy on May 3, 2003, at 20:32:22
In reply to Just steal a pen or something ;-) (nm), posted by whiterabbit on May 2, 2003, at 21:50:39
Been there done that. His pens...Note clips from drug reps from his door...he knows this...but I want my records. I see him for the last time Thursday I want to know exactly what he wrote about me but I don't wish to go to jail. He says he tells me what he writes bue don't we all know they write more. I think I am going a little extreme here don't you. Maybe a little "Fatal Attraction" without the attraction.
Posted by Eggy on May 3, 2003, at 21:05:19
In reply to Re: Well darn » Eggy, posted by leeran on May 2, 2003, at 21:36:32
My face hurts from laughter. You made my day. I was sitting here already in laughter as my friend was telling me over the phone that I would go to jail and just like mental hospitals I will not be allowed to have a file stuck in my cake to escape with. I suppose I will give up the idea of pretending to choke so my therapist will leave the room for me a drink, while I sneak out off the fire escape with my 10 inch thick mental health records. I think I'll stick with stealing his drug rep gifts. Oh what a thrill!!
Posted by leeran on May 3, 2003, at 23:27:55
In reply to Re: Well darn » leeran, posted by Eggy on May 3, 2003, at 21:05:19
"I will not be allowed to have a file stuck in my cake to escape with."
I think there's a moral to this story. Maybe: You can't have your cake and file, too? But I'm not sure if I mean a fingernail file, or a medical file.
"while I sneak out off the fire escape with my 10 inch thick mental health records"
Eggy, you're killing me here. So . . . you want him to add "thrill seeker" along with "kleptomaniac?" to your file before (or after) you're behind bars? If laughter is the best cure - then tonight I'm healed.
p.s. I guess this is a confession. One time I peeked at what the gynecologist had written in my file. He had gone out to get a sample or something (and as we know, they don't leave those files laying around too often) . . .
There were two words written in the margin: "nice lady." I was a lot younger and I remember thinking "nice lady???" I don't know what I wanted him to call me, but I felt positively "Driving Miss Daisy-ish" as I hopped back up on the stirrup table before he could catch me in the act.
That's the only time I've snuck a peek at my medical records. I would be afraid of seeing something like "batty old broad" these days. What I don't know can't hurt me . . .
Posted by Dinah on May 4, 2003, at 0:09:33
In reply to Re: Well darn » Eggy, posted by leeran on May 3, 2003, at 23:27:55
You ain't kidding, Lee. I got copies of my pediatric records over a year ago and am still reeling from the very personal observations recorded within. I can't believe it was considered professional.
On the other hand, doctors have told me that with the current laws allowing patients access to their files that they are a whole lot more careful what they write now. So if any of them is foolish enough to have unkind thoughts about you, they aren't likely to be foolish enough to write them down.
Posted by stjames on May 4, 2003, at 1:53:40
In reply to Re: Stealing medical records?? » Eggy, posted by WorryGirl on May 2, 2003, at 15:17:55
> Mental health records are probably not viewable to the patient, since, for obvious reasons, the patient may or may not be stable enough to view them.
Wait a min, here. YOU PAID FOR THEM, so you can see them.
Posted by WorryGirl on May 4, 2003, at 9:50:52
In reply to Re: Stealing medical records??, posted by stjames on May 4, 2003, at 1:53:40
> > Mental health records are probably not viewable to the patient, since, for obvious reasons, the patient may or may not be stable enough to view them.
>
>
> Wait a min, here. YOU PAID FOR THEM, so you can see them.I agree with you 100%. I think that if you have paid for the service you should be entitled to copies of the records, and shouldn't even be charged for those. I think that the cost of the copies should already have been calculated into the cost of your health care (5 cents, 5 dollars, whatever it costs for the copies).
I somehow thought that, probably, mental health records might not be viewable to at least some of the patients, if they were determined to be unstable. I could picture an unlikely, but possible horrible scenario where the patient reads in the records that he or she is "unstable and a possible threat to this family", then goes home and shoots his/her family.
Maybe pdocs allow patients to view their own records depending upon the diagnosis and assessment of their mental state. Does anyone know if all mental health records are viewable by any patient, regardless of their condition, whether for a fee or not?
I suspect that I was being audio-taped, maybe even videotaped when I saw my therapist last year. He rarely seemed to be taking notes. Either I was so boring that he didn't need to take many, or he has a great memory and saved his note-taking for later (somehow I doubt that; he seemed rather lacksadaisal, often appearing to have almost fallen asleep while I talked, but not when he was talking, which was often). Anyway, I wanted to ask what my records/notes said several times, but was afraid to. Now I wish I had at least tried. I wonder if I could request copies from him now, several months later.
Posted by Willow on May 4, 2003, at 12:25:16
In reply to Re: Well darn » Eggy, posted by leeran on May 2, 2003, at 21:36:32
Posted by Dinah on May 4, 2003, at 14:38:32
In reply to Re: Stealing medical records?? » stjames, posted by WorryGirl on May 4, 2003, at 9:50:52
Depending on your state, you can certainly request copies. In my state, there is the ability for the doctor to refuse to release psych records but only if releasing them would be harmful to the patient. And I think they have the burden of proof there. Also, I believe they're required to keep your records for a certain number of years, so a few months later shouldn't be a problem. You will probably have to pay a fee.
I asked for my records from one pdoc and will probably do the same with this one when he retires. I don't think I want to see my therapist's records ever although he claims that he writes very little down, and only makes enough notes to satisfy clinic guidelines. He's read them back to me on occasion, and they seem to be general "client is upset today" or "client is upbeat today" comments, and notes on medication and sleep. External sorts of things. But we discussed note taking when we were talking about a fill in, and it apparently varies widely. Some take notes after session, some write everything down, some take only cursory notes. (I insisted on a cursory note taker.)
But it can be upsetting, so make sure you really want to see them. My pediatric therapy records have long since been destroyed, but just the notes in my pediatric general file were enough to take up several sessions with my therapist. And enough for me to track down my former psychiatrist and ask him what he might have meant by some of what he said. (He was a good sport about it, bless him.)
Posted by magic potion on May 4, 2003, at 19:16:13
In reply to Stealing medical records??, posted by Eggy on May 2, 2003, at 13:32:07
You no longer have to steal your records thanks to HIPAA, which went into effect on April 14th. It has nothing to do with the states.
And, most docs have no clue what they are doing with HIPAA...They are scared poopless. Some of them have had to spend 20k to get their offices to be HIPAA compliant. Just say the word "HIPAA" like you know what you are talking about, then sit back and watch them sweat.
You have a right to your records...just don't steal them. You can ask for a copy and under the HIPAA privacy rule. You even have a right to request corrections to your medical records!
Here's the bonified info on it, click on Health Information Privacy FAQs and then on "What does the HIPAA Privacy Rule do?"
http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/hipaa/
Posted by stjames on May 4, 2003, at 22:42:28
In reply to Re: Stealing medical records?? » stjames, posted by WorryGirl on May 4, 2003, at 9:50:52
> I somehow thought that, probably, mental health records might not be viewable to at least some of the patients, if they were determined to be unstable. I could picture an unlikely, but possible horrible scenario where the patient reads in the records that he or she is "unstable and a possible threat to this family", then goes home and shoots his/her family.
I agree that some should not see thier docs notes & suspect docs often bluff in this case to protect
patients who they feel would be injuried by this.
If you are really insane, I would argue seeing your notes is not a good thing. How would this help:Dx: Paranoid schizophrenic
Prognosis: Poor. No family support, no finances &
No med compliance indicate condition will progress
until life on the street kills this person.>
> Maybe pdocs allow patients to view their own records depending upon the diagnosis and assessment of their mental state. Does anyone know if all mental health records are viewable by any patient, regardless of their condition, whether for a fee or not?This is basic to the rights of privacy and your
papers, please see the constitution.
> I suspect that I was being audio-taped, maybe even videotaped when I saw my therapist last year. He rarely seemed to be taking notes. Either I was so boring that he didn't need to take many, or he has a great memory and saved his note-taking for later (somehow I doubt that; he seemed rather lacksadaisal, often appearing to have almost fallen asleep while I talked, but not when he was talking, which was often).They cannot tape unless they ask. Docs don't take a lot of notes to protect you from insurance issues.
In truth, if there is something that earth shattering in your notes, and the doc has never
mentioned it, there is not reason to seak treatment from this doc.
Posted by Eggy on May 4, 2003, at 23:01:04
In reply to Re: Stealing medical records??, posted by stjames on May 4, 2003, at 22:42:28
Ya have to admit it would be fun. I would be like switching all the keys ay a car sales lot.Or switching the hair color bottles in the boxes at wal-mart so that blonde chick ends up looking like lucille Ball. Let someone else feel the panic. While I sit back and try to read the scribbling. I already know I am unstable. Why else would I want to do this. I might return it later after correcting all his misspelt(sp?) words and improper punctuations with my red felt tip pen that says ZOLOFT on the side that I stole from his desk a few weeks ago.
This is the end of the thread.
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