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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by beardedlady on February 6, 2003, at 10:59:03
In reply to Anyone with panic and anxiety disorders..........., posted by tina on February 6, 2003, at 9:53:34
Tina:
My panic is related only to sleep, though it can occur at any time of day. It's been called "anticipatory anxiety." I anticipate having trouble sleeping and become anxious at other times of the day.
(I'm going to a sleep clinic tonight and am very nervous, so I had my first panic attack in a long time last night.)
While it's fresh in my mind, I can say I usually become light headed. Sometimes my heart races, but mostly it beats harder. My breathing becomes extremely shallow.
When it's full blown, my body trembles uncontrollably, as if I were freezing to death.
I have a few remedies. Hot, hot baths and showers help tremendously. Though it's not a great remedy for most, I find a beer or glass--ONE--of sweet, Jewish wine or flavored brandy (they are both "hot" going down) relax me. I have not found a food that works.
Deep breaths, rhythmically and methodically, work wonders, too, but it's often hard to do them in the throes of panic; I don't know why, but taking a deep breath just seems too hard.
Many people who practice meditation regularly (even ten minutes a day) find that panic attacks don't happen as often. Some find complete relief. I have trouble sticking with it but have been assigned it as homework by my therapist.
What helps most of all is another person's touch. A very tight hug (like those cradlers for autistic people), a back rub or scratch--touching. Last night, what saved my life was sex. I had an orgasm and let all the tension out. (It can be hard to concentrate enough for an orgasm when you're in the panic mode or when you're on certain meds, but it's not an issue for me.) I still had trouble sleeping for a little while longer, but I was eventually out.
I hope some of these ideas help you.
It's very good to see you posting. I don't post much, but I noticed you were back and read a few of your posts on 2000. You give terrific advice, and you sound really upbeat. Whatever you're doing, it seems to be working.
I wish you the very best.
beardy : )>
Posted by tina on February 6, 2003, at 11:21:05
In reply to Re: Anyone with panic and anxiety disorders....... » tina, posted by beardedlady on February 6, 2003, at 10:59:03
thanks for the very informative post BL. That's a lot of good advice.
I may "sound" upbeat but I am far from it. I'm just trying hard not to dump it on others these days.
Your anxiety sounds a little like mine, however, heat of any kind induces a panic attack for me whereas you say hot baths help you. I need cold. It's freezing here in the winter but I sometimes have to sleep with my window open to keep the panic away.
Do you get nausea or bowel disruption? My heart beats hard too, in my ears and against my chest wall but only if I don't run away from the situation that is causing the attack. I usually run away. I've been heavily into the avoidance behaviour. I don't go anywhere or see anyone anymore. I only go to work and that's just 9 hours a week (heavily medicated with benzos)
I've not improved at all, getting worse actually.
thank you for the response though. Like I said, it was very informativetina
Posted by tina on February 6, 2003, at 11:23:49
In reply to Re: Anyone with panic and anxiety disorders..........., posted by lostsailor on February 6, 2003, at 10:56:10
thanks for the response tony.
Does the lexapro help?
If I could only get this anxiety under control, I'm pretty sure everything else would fall into place for me. Fear is controlling my every breath.
thanks again
tina
Posted by beardedlady on February 6, 2003, at 11:30:57
In reply to Re: Anyone with panic and anxiety disorders....... » beardedlady, posted by tina on February 6, 2003, at 11:21:05
Tina:
That's the worst--the heartbeat in the ears. I lie in bed and toss and turn until I can find the position that stops the ear beats. When this happens, I can sometimes take really deep breaths, like sleeping breaths, and I'll fall asleep by drowning out the ear beats!
My mother always insisted that sharing your misery with others prolonged it. She told me to put on a happy face and that it would eventually catch on. Although it's easy to say when you don't have a mental disorder, it's not worth discrediting just on the basis of that. Sometimes you really can improve your mood by not validating it out loud. Know what I mean?
So you sound good, and you are alive. So maybe your resolve has kept you that way? A little?
Tina, try a cold bath. Water seems to have an effect similar to hugging--it surrounds your skin.
Avoidance can certainly work, but you are intelligent and beautiful and have great experiences to share with others. I hope you will be able to get out and enjoy your life very soon.
Oh, one more thing--not drinking enough water seems to be a culprit in many attacks. I sometimes feel that my body is soooo thirsty that it's acting out. Drinking eight glasses of water throughout the day also seems to give me a very good kind of focused energy. On the days I don't (like yesterday), it's usually because I'm feeling bad. But that's the very time I need to drink! Crazy, huh? I wonder if there's something to that dehydration theory.
Iso?
Take care, Tina. Check in and let us know what remedies worked for you, if any.
beardy : )>
Posted by daizy on February 6, 2003, at 12:22:35
In reply to Re: Anyone with panic and anxiety disorders....... » beardedlady, posted by tina on February 6, 2003, at 11:21:05
> Tina, Like you, heat causes me to panic, I get scared to shower or bath in other peoples houses incase I have to get out, it sounds funny but actaully its not! Strong smells, talking to people on the phone, and just general everyday things that others find easy to cope with cause me to panic. I was on effexpr and it didnt help, Im now on amitriptyline and it has lifted my
mood a little but its really not working with the panic. I find myself at home watching tele or reading most of the time, as Ive given up going out cause its too stressful, so I think I kinda know where you are coming from, Just hope you find the right medication and it works! (let me know if you do, I need some aswell!) :-)thanks for the very informative post BL. That's a lot of good advice.
> I may "sound" upbeat but I am far from it. I'm just trying hard not to dump it on others these days.
> Your anxiety sounds a little like mine, however, heat of any kind induces a panic attack for me whereas you say hot baths help you. I need cold. It's freezing here in the winter but I sometimes have to sleep with my window open to keep the panic away.
> Do you get nausea or bowel disruption? My heart beats hard too, in my ears and against my chest wall but only if I don't run away from the situation that is causing the attack. I usually run away. I've been heavily into the avoidance behaviour. I don't go anywhere or see anyone anymore. I only go to work and that's just 9 hours a week (heavily medicated with benzos)
> I've not improved at all, getting worse actually.
> thank you for the response though. Like I said, it was very informative
>
> tina
Posted by justyourlaugh on February 6, 2003, at 12:35:27
In reply to Anyone with panic and anxiety disorders..........., posted by tina on February 6, 2003, at 9:53:34
hi tina,
i take beer for that-haha
****************************
i did take effexor for 8 weeks or so.
no side effects other than"head rushes"once in a awhile-but the good kind.
made me randy too,shhhh.i really didnt help me though-
went completely mad on it.
jyl
Posted by tina on February 6, 2003, at 14:05:55
In reply to Re: Anyone with panic and anxiety disorders........... » tina, posted by justyourlaugh on February 6, 2003, at 12:35:27
no nasty withdrawal effects?
I've read so much awful stuff on this site alone about Effexor I think I'm having more anxiety at the prospect of having to try it.
Damned if I do, damned if I don't.What do you mean by "randy" and you went "completely mad" on it?
Please elaborate if you can.......
thanks jyl. I hope today is going better.
tina
Posted by Mikey_C on February 6, 2003, at 14:52:46
In reply to Anyone with panic and anxiety disorders..........., posted by tina on February 6, 2003, at 9:53:34
Tina, I've been DX'd as Bi-Polar with Mixed Episodes as well as having an adjunct panic disorder. When my anxiety gets the best of me... I feel really angry, have like huge anger outbursts that everybody tells me don't make any sense... I get huge amounts of energy... either read, study, or work out till my brain or body is just exhausted. My panic attacks come usually when I'm about to go into a social situation that I'm not really comfortable with (ex. giving presentations, going to interviews, first dates, etc.) and especially when I'm trying to fall asleep at night. When a panic attack sets in, I kind of feel kind of dizzy at first and slightly off-balance, like something isn't exactly right. Then my heart starts to speed up... if you've ever jumped off a high diving board, it's kind of the same effect... and my entire body gets really stiff and hurts, sometimes my stomach even gets upset.What have I tried doing for these? Well... I've tried everything that the other people have listed on this site... meditation, breathing exercises, warm/cold baths or showers, sex, etc. The only thing that's really worked was a Benzo. If I'm feeling like one is coming on, I take about .5mg of Clonazepam. I also take 1mg of Clonazepam every night before bed and since doing so regularly (about 8 months) it's the only period in my life that I've been able to sleep soundly. I'm also taking Depakote/Epival at 500mg per day. This has stopped the whole cycling up of panic attacks to where everything feels like it's moving in double-motion all the time. With both of those combined, I haven't really had "a" panic attack (mild or severe) in quite some time.
Now I just need to find a medication that will work with the Depakote and Clonazepam and help me with the depression side of my disorder. All the SSRIs cause me problems (Effexor, Paxil, Celexa) which I would rather live without. Any suggestions to this area would be appreciated.
Posted by Mikey_C on February 6, 2003, at 14:56:11
In reply to Re: Anyone with panic and anxiety disorders......., posted by daizy on February 6, 2003, at 12:22:35
Daizy, it's Mike, I accidentally lost your email address so when you get the chance write me back. You've been on my mind lately... hopefully alls going well... I take it you didn't decide to go visit your friend like you were talking about the other week?
Posted by justyourlaugh on February 6, 2003, at 15:09:41
In reply to Re: Anyone with panic and anxiety disorders........... » justyourlaugh, posted by tina on February 6, 2003, at 14:05:55
hi,
thankyou tina i am having a better day.
i hope you are too!
i ment i felt sexual for the first time in a year(randy)
i dont know how to say this without a"trigger"hummm..
i did horrible things to myself in many forms..first time in 4 years.
go to the point whe i just stopped everything(over dosed on trazodone twice-but just to sleep for a few days)
stopped talking
and so on...(madness)
when i went off effexor..it was sudden and then wellbutrin seoquel and thyroid stuff.
i had a few brain zaps...but again.they were the good kind.
jyl
Posted by justyourlaugh on February 6, 2003, at 15:17:00
In reply to Re: Anyone with panic and anxiety disorders........... » tina, posted by justyourlaugh on February 6, 2003, at 15:09:41
wait tina,
i forgot to add.i was on 300mg,and it wasnt helping.
so i was also self medicating with large amounts of alcohol..
jyl
Posted by Mikey_C on February 6, 2003, at 15:43:14
In reply to Re: Anyone with panic and anxiety disorders........... » justyourlaugh, posted by tina on February 6, 2003, at 14:05:55
Tina, I took Effexor for a few months before I was diagnosed as being Bi-Polar. I was on a relatively low-dose, can't remember exactly how many mgs at the moment, but for a while there, it really helped to calm things down. No real long-term side effects from it other than it was kind of hard to climax.That's minus the HORRIBLE start-up effects though.... my skin, to me, felt like burning rubber for about 2 weeks... My head hurt, my vision was blurred, had little to no appetite... just really nasty. Then that stopped and I was alright on it for a few months. Not too sure why I stopped though.
But when I stopped... that's the main reason why I will never EVER go back on that stuff... the withdrawal is about the scariest thing I've ever gone through. Man... the dreams *cries*... I've always had vivid dreams, but never really much of a nightmare person... When I was going through Effexor withdrawal, I was dreaming about little kids, like 4 and 5 year olds, being horribly mutilated and then their dead bodies chasing after me.... Woke up a few times in those 2 weeks swearing that I would never sleep again. Then of course... the withdrawal symptoms were just about as bad as the start up symptoms.
So, if you don't mind the start-up or withdrawal, then yeah, Effexor really does work.
Posted by tina on February 7, 2003, at 9:26:37
In reply to Re: Anyone with panic and anxiety disorders........... » tina, posted by Mikey_C on February 6, 2003, at 15:43:14
Oh lord. I am really sensitive to ssri's already so I think I'm just not going to take the Effexor. I haven't filled the prescription yet so maybe I just won't and stay med-free for now. I do take a benzo but even that is starting to not work. My anxiety is constant and continuous. I'm never relaxed. I don't even think I know how anymore. My neck and back muscles are always aching and my stomach is torn apart by clenching and acid and my bowels are always out of control. I live on anti-nauseants and imodium and clonazepam.
The part that really gets to me is watching life pass by. Year after year, decade after decade of not living, not experiencing all the things I want to do and knowing I can't do them. Some people will say do them anyway, push through the anxiety and do it anyway but I feel that those people who can say that, don't have the anxiety that i have been living with for nearly 14 years. Stepping out my front door is extremely difficult. The thought, the merest thought of attempting something new like taking a class or meeting new people sends me into a storm of diarrhea and dizziness.
There are so many things I want to do, I want to do and try everything but I KNOW in my heart that I'll never be able to. I feel imprisoned, trapped and watching life happen in front of me, in spite of me, is what puts me in the suicidal frame of mind. Why be here if I can't have a life and that's where the depression comes from. If I could just do some of the things I want, I think I would be fine, even maybe happy. But knowing I can't is a death sentence in itself.sorry, didn't mean this to be so morose. I told myself I wouldn't do that anymore but I wanted to explain why I'm so depressed eventhough depression isn't my real problem. The anxiety robbed me of any possibility of a life and that's the root of my depression. So, anti-depressants aren't worth it to me unless they get rid of the anxiety and so far, none have and now that the benzo is giving up on me, I have nowhere to turn and that's why I wish for death every night.
Posted by Mikey_C on February 7, 2003, at 10:04:12
In reply to Re: Anyone with panic and anxiety disorders..........., posted by tina on February 7, 2003, at 9:26:37
Tina, life is what you make of it. If you want to stay trapped inside forever and wish for death, then so be it. However, life does have a LOT to offer besides it's ulimate ending. It's up to you to decide on whether or not you want to live or die.As for the anxiety... is that the ONLY medication that you're taking?
"anti-nauseants and imodium and clonazepam"
I found that the one that rid me completely of my anxiety was Depakote/Epival, depending on what part of the world you live in. It's a Mood Stabilizer and with it you're going to need to get blood tests done every few months, BUT, you should be anxiety free. That, combined with Clonazepam at night, is what has me pretty relaxed most of the time. If I'm ever feeling really wound up now, I just talk to my gf about it and once whatever is worrying me is off of my chest, I'm fine.
The only thing now is that I need to find something to use with the Clonazepam and the Depakote/Epival that will work to fend off my depression. I can feel it coming back, and it's not that bad yet, but it takes away a lot of the strength that I need in order to complete the next phase of my life.
See, 8 months ago I was pretty much in the same frame of mind as you are in now. Nothing seemed to be a good idea except dying and being rid of all the misery. Now 8 months later I just know that there is one more little piece of the puzzle that I need to discover in order to get my life back. I've met a girl whom I can honestly say I can see myself with for a very long time and I can see a completely beautiful life for myself over the horizon as soon as I have the strength to make it there. From here till then though is simply a matter of time now. I'm seeing two doctors within the next month who should be able to help me find that last piece of the puzzle I'm looking for and then it's all home-free from there.
Oh yeah, and the Clonazepam only seems to wear off IF you're using that as the only medication to control your anxiety/panic. I've been using it off and on now for about 4 years and for the first 3, without using anything else besides it, I always had to keep upping my dosage till I just felt stoned and anxiety/panic free all the time. In the last 8 months, with my Mood Stabilizer acting as my main medication, I've stayed at 1mg per night time and have only had to increase it to maybe 1.5mg on my absolute worst days (which all seem to be behind me since I haven't had an absolutely horrible day in quite some time now).
Anyways, I hope that has provided you with some information that you could find useful and some support that you may need.....
Posted by Dinah on February 7, 2003, at 10:08:48
In reply to Re: Anyone with panic and anxiety disorders..........., posted by tina on February 7, 2003, at 9:26:37
Tina, I understand how you feel about SSRI's but it doesn't sound like going it alone without meds is working out too well for you.
I think you said your doctor is a general practitioner. Do you think that maybe it's time for a consult at a university hospital? There are lots of non-SSRI meds out there, and you deserve any chance you can give yourself to have a better quality of life. One thing I've always been impressed about with DBT was the idea that suicide prevention isn't enough on its own, and that it's possible and imperative to help make life worth living. Meds or therapy or both, I think you need to insist that you get the help you need.
I'm just throwing out ideas because I'm worried about you.
Posted by tina on February 7, 2003, at 10:35:04
In reply to Re: Anyone with panic and anxiety disorders........... » tina, posted by Mikey_C on February 7, 2003, at 10:04:12
Hey Mike
thank you for all the advice and I'm glad your life is shaping up to be what you want it to be. I'm happy for you and your success with meds.
I have actually tried Depakote/Epival. i was on it for 6 months with no improvement in the anxiety. I just gained weight. I have had to deal with this for 14 years now. Hope tends to fade away in that time. Deciding to live isn't the issue. I would love to "live" metaphorically AND literally but staying locked up and trapped by this anxiety is no life and with it's intensity, just 'deciding' isnt' really an option. If it was that easy, I wouldn't be posting here.
Posted by tina on February 7, 2003, at 10:40:52
In reply to Re: Anyone with panic and anxiety disorders........... » tina, posted by Dinah on February 7, 2003, at 10:08:48
DBT?
I'm seeing my GP because she's the only one who will try different meds. I've seen psychopharmacologists over and over and they just prescribe the same ones again and again even when I tell them I've had them before and they didn't work. They are so sure of themselves that they say "just try it again", positive that they are right. Psychologists, psychiatrists, councelors, social workers, therapists of all description have given up on me. 4 out of 6 of them actually told me that they couldn't help me, those exact words. The other two moved out of town.I just want the anxiety to stop. WHY is that so much to ask?
Posted by tina on February 7, 2003, at 10:44:26
In reply to Re: Anyone with panic and anxiety disorders........... » tina, posted by Mikey_C on February 7, 2003, at 10:04:12
> As for the anxiety... is that the ONLY medication that you're taking?
>
> "anti-nauseants and imodium and clonazepam"I forgot........tylenol with codeine, advil, gas-X, sleeping pills, herbal relaxants and aromatherapy oils.
My whole life revolves around my anxiety. I have an OTC pharmacy in my purse.
Posted by Dinah on February 7, 2003, at 10:50:44
In reply to Re: Anyone with panic and anxiety disorders........... » Dinah, posted by tina on February 7, 2003, at 10:40:52
Goodness gracious! I think I do remember talking about this before. I wish you could see my pdoc. He's flexible and listens to me.
Have you tried the antipsychotics? Despite their name, I found the effect to be mostly a tranquilizing one. It didn't make me groggy or sedated, but I became almost instantly calmer - within a few hours. Of course there are risks involved, and it is best to talk it over with your doctor or maybe with a doctor that has more familiarity with the risks and benefits. I've actually decided not to take it right now, because things don't seem all that bad yet to justify the risk. I take it on an as needed basis. Last time, I just had to take it once.
I'm not recommending it by any means, just suggesting that there may be some alternatives you haven't tried yet.
DBT is dialectical behavior therapy. It's a much softer and gentler version of the more clinical cognitive behavior therapy. I don't know if it's offered in your area (it isn't in mine), but it was originally developed for chronically suicidal patients and it recognizes quality of life issues. It has since been identified with borderline personality disorder.
There are still a lot of options. Even if you have to move to another area to get them, it's got to beat the misery you're currently in.
Posted by tina on February 7, 2003, at 10:56:41
In reply to Re: Anyone with panic and anxiety disorders........... » tina, posted by Dinah on February 7, 2003, at 10:50:44
I have tried Seroquel. It sent me into fits of panic.
I seem to react completely opposite to everyone else.
Maybe I should try a stimulant? *sigh*
Posted by Mikey_C on February 7, 2003, at 11:10:04
In reply to Re: Anyone with panic and anxiety disorders........... » Mikey_C, posted by tina on February 7, 2003, at 10:35:04
Tina, how high up did you wind up going on the Depakote? Honestly, for me it felt like everything was moving in double-motion for me. I couldn't keep up with what was going on around me. When I would be in a conversation with somebody I would have to keep talking faster and faster in order to get out what I wanted to say while I kept jumping from topic to topic to topic. I couldn't sleep at all since sleeping felt like work, and there just wasn't enough time in a day for sleep except for an hour or two when absolutely needed. Basically, I had it in a VERY bad way... Had to take a time out from society, luckily I had a place of shelter to go to till I felt better... and I'm basically still on that break, just waiting for that one final piece.I found that after about a month or two at the proper dosage of Depakote and the Roller-Coaster that I was on finally stopped. I've been off of that ride now for about 4 months...
You could also try Lithium *shrugs* Some friends that I've met recently have told me that that med had basically the same effect on them.
But then... on the other hand... Even though Effexor has a LOT of bad points, especially when you're starting up and coming off of it, and increasing your dosage of it... it did work for me as well in stopping the anxiety/panic. Out of all the bad things that that med did bring to me, at 40mg (I checked my prescriptions to make sure) I was pretty much anxiety free. Of course, I used that also with Clonazepam.
Hope that helps...
Posted by Mikey_C on February 7, 2003, at 11:20:35
In reply to Re: Anyone with panic and anxiety disorders........... » tina, posted by Dinah on February 7, 2003, at 10:50:44
That definitely cured my anxiety... only problem was that I would take one of those pills at night, sleep for like 12 hours, and then when I woke up, I was still groggy as Hell all day. No anxiety anymore, but no motive to do anything other than sit there and drool on myself lol...I have a friend that's been taking that for a few years now for some form of Psychosis and he says that that goes away after a little bit...
Could be another option?
Posted by Dinah on February 7, 2003, at 11:43:35
In reply to Forget about Risperdal.... » Dinah, posted by Mikey_C on February 7, 2003, at 11:20:35
It didn't have that effect on me at all. Of course, my dose was very low. It calmed down the overarousal and brought me out of a meltdown at a timy dose, and without sedation.
Just my experience, and I know that it has its own risks.
Posted by Mikey_C on February 7, 2003, at 11:50:51
In reply to Re: Forget about Risperdal.... » Mikey_C, posted by Dinah on February 7, 2003, at 11:43:35
Simple typo... meant that there's another alternative that you could try... that definitely took away my anxiety but was a little too strong for me... but like Dinah said, people have different reactions to it... one of my friends has been taking that particular med for like 4 years and swears by it
Posted by tina on February 7, 2003, at 13:06:12
In reply to Re: Anyone with panic and anxiety disorders........... » tina, posted by Mikey_C on February 7, 2003, at 11:10:04
Believe it or not, I have tried lithium. It turned me into a manic mess. I bounced off walls, drove my car too fast etc. It seemed to just turn the crank up on everything. It was not a comfortable feeling. Literally out of control.
i scared people.
I was eventually at the 500mg point with the Epival/Depakote. The more I increased it, the more out of whack my eating and weight got but the anxiety endured. Depression comes and goes but anxiety is a sticker like gum on my spirit except that now I'm drowning in it.Even thinking about taking the Effexor terrifies me. That alone would cause a psychosomatic reaction upon taking the first pill, don't you think? Maybe I should just save my money.
Someday maybe someone will come up with a medication that actually works on my anxiety.
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