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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by IsoM on June 25, 2002, at 11:34:34
One point in my daily life that I find hard to change has to do with the start & stopping of doing things. Let me explain.
Even though there's many things I really enjoy doing very much, I have a great deal of trouble "wanting" to start something, though I, of course, go ahead & make myself do them anyway. A few examples are going out to the garden to weed or plant, going to work (which I do like), deciding to go to a movie with a friend, even visiting a friend, going shopping for groceries or needed items (I don't like shopping much though). All sorts of daily activities fall into this pattern.
Now I'd think it's because I'm a real procrastinator but my son with ADD is the same while my oldest hasn't got it & has no difficulties deciding to do something & simply doing it.
The funny thing is once I start something, I know I will enjoy it & then don't want to stop & do something else. I can garden till it's too dark outside to see any more. Even at work, I seem to find so many things that need finishing or people who need explanations about garden related help & stay later than I should.
What's with me? Is this a strong ADD trait? Please don't say everybody is like this. To a degree, this is true, but you'd have to be around me to realise how MUCH I'm like this. If there's someone else about who mentally stimulates me about what needs doing, then I'm eager to do it, but alone, I procrastinate over starting almost anything.
Ideas? Strategies you've developed to overcome it?
Posted by mist on June 25, 2002, at 13:07:17
In reply to ADD Question For Others With It, posted by IsoM on June 25, 2002, at 11:34:34
I'm somewhat like what you describe but since I also have depression with anhedonia it's a little different. I can't always separate out what causes what.
>If there's someone else about who mentally stimulates me about what needs doing, then I'm eager to do it, but alone, I procrastinate over starting almost anything.
I'm thinking of hiring an ADD coach or coach intern (less expensive) for this among other reasons.
I'm glad you started a thread on this. Sometimes I wish there was a separate board here for ADD. People could post their coping tips, etc., and they would all be together in one place. I haven't found a message board elsewhere for adult ADD that I like.
Posted by Xevious on June 25, 2002, at 13:54:29
In reply to Re: ADD Question For Others With It » IsoM, posted by mist on June 25, 2002, at 13:07:17
You brought up one of my biggest ADD-related problems; I completely understand your frustration.
Meds have greatly improved my focus, but they don't even touch my motivational difficulties. I suspect that these are largely a behavioral trait, learned from coping with too many years of undiagnosed ADD.
I've been highly successful in school and work, owned successful businesses and accomplished much, but a few years back, faced with my many failures and the realization that I *still* hadn't figured out how to "fit into" conventional, boxed society, I hit a motivational wall and spent a little over a year doing close to nothing at all.
I've started to pull myself out of this funk - I'm getting a Master's degree and will be applying for doctoral programs this fall, but I still feel like I'm just going through the motions - I have no idea what my goal is or how I'll survive once I'm past this round of schooling. Same goes for all the little things in my life, from gardening to getting up the energy to go out with friends.
These symptoms share much in common with depression, yet antidepressants have yet to help. Therapy and coaching have had a measurable positive effect, but I'm still floundering, waiting for my Muse to come back to me.
I think that it's hard enough to simply live in this world of ours without having to deal with a mental disorder... I have nothing but respect for everyone here who, like myself, has to struggle that much harder for each moment of bliss.
Posted by morgan26 on June 26, 2002, at 9:51:23
In reply to ADD Question For Others With It, posted by IsoM on June 25, 2002, at 11:34:34
My God, I thought I was the only one! I am an incurable procrastinator, to the point that it interferes with job, school, chores around the house. Not just that, but like you, I seem unable to start things I enjoy. I think to myself "It would be great to go do ____" and know I would enjoy it, but cannot seem to get started. It is socially isolating since the problem includes seeking new experiences where I would have the opportunity to make friends.
I was recently diagnosed with ADD (I am 31) and started on Ritalin. Not sure yet if it is working - am having a recurrence of depression which I think is a result of med interations. But I am hopeful, and my doc assures me that this inability to get started is one clinical manifestation of ADD. It seems that it can go either way - sort of manic ADD where everything gets done and then you get bored (or you start everything and finish nothing), or this kind where you can't start anything because you can't get over that initial barrier.
My only solution so far as been to force myself into situations where I have to "do or die." Doc says this is "normal" too - create an emergency and then fix it. Not the best solution, obviously. Am hoping the meds work - have been thinking for years of returning to school, but am too scared to risk failing because I cannot make myself study.
Any solutions you find, please let me know!
Posted by IsoM on June 26, 2002, at 14:03:05
In reply to Re: ADD Question For Others With It » IsoM, posted by Xevious on June 25, 2002, at 13:54:29
Thanks, folks, for answering. The medication I take has helped enormously with motivation & anhedonia. I'm not depressed in the least now, I feel very excited by life, & there's *so* much I want to do, learn, make, etc. It's just this one sticky area - making myself start something, that bothers me. Almost like someone needs to stand behind me with a live wire & zap me going - to flick the on switch. Then after I've been going for a while, come along & flick the switch off or reset me for another task.
Whatever the moment catches me in, I feel stuck in that mode & mood till I'm tire out. I love the idea of an ADD coach & have tried to find out more what they do but never got enough info when I asked that properly
explains what they do. Just generalities like 'motivates' the client. Can anyone answer what do they do? Show up on your doorstep & lead you through the day? Phone every hour to check on you, or what? I can work out schedules & plans fine, just can't stick to them.It was better for me when my sons were small & lived at home. It forced me to be organised for them, to schedule myself for them. But with no one to force myself, I tend to let things slip. Maybe I should get a puppy that needs frequent looking after but can't stand a messy house. I think right now, I'd be able to gather enough cat hair from carpet & furniture to make another cat. But when my sons were small, I kept the floor clean enough to eat off as they played on it & would stick anything they found into their mouths. Arrggh! I wish I could twist my leg about & give myself a swift kick in the a$$ (that okay, Dr. Bob?).
I have the problem Morgan brought out where I do all sorts of things but never complete most & when I've explored something to the limits of the understanding I can give it, I get bored. The more some subject is explored, the less diversified the focus becomes, & I resent those limitations. I want to know every aspect of what interests me, not just hone in on one area to the exclusion of others. And then to be able to actually accomplish something, the mundane parts of it as well as the exciting parts.
I think that's the curse of ADD people. Perhaps only those with lots of money to hire a secretary, maid, & some workers to keep track of & do the mundane tasks are the satisfied ones.
Posted by mist on June 26, 2002, at 16:09:26
In reply to Re:Motivation, Anhedonia, and Meds for ADD, posted by IsoM on June 26, 2002, at 14:03:05
My impression is that coaches work in different ways. You probably have to talk to several and see who would do what you need and for what price. I've also heard of people setting up buddy system type "peer coaching" arrangements. Not sure of the particulars, but I think they call each other to remind/prompt about things, etc.
In my case, I believe developing habits of doing certain things at the same time every day (or almost) a la Flylady (since for me keeping up with housework is a challenge) might help. I am hoping this can be applied to other things besides cleaning, etc. It's already helping me to have an evening routine that I developed based on her recommendations (hope it lasts).
I have read that transitions between activities are harder for ADD people than others. In my case I wonder if some of that might not be anxiety. Sometimes being in "the void"—the transition between one activity and another makes me feel a little anxious.
But again, my problem might be different than yours because in addition to ADD I have the depression and anhedonia to factor in (although since that's getting better it might become easier to sort things out). And I don't take meds for ADD yet although I want to.
> I think that's the curse of ADD people. Perhaps only those with lots of money to hire a secretary, maid, & some workers to keep track of & do the mundane tasks are the satisfied ones.This is my goal. I really think it will be necessary for me to hire some people, if only once a week, once a month, etc.-- not a full time staff. I can probably afford some help once I'm working more.
Posted by katekite on June 27, 2002, at 20:15:11
In reply to Re:Motivation, Anhedonia, and Meds for ADD, posted by IsoM on June 26, 2002, at 14:03:05
IsoM you are really funny: maybe I should get a puppy because I can't get in control of things. LOL.
I have the same issue with changing tasks. Staying at things far too late, etc.
Some days it works to write out a schedule (the night before as mornings are not easy) and stick to it as best I can. Some days I glance at the schedule and then do whatever I feel like that isn't on it.
For a while I had an alarm clock I downloaded onto my computer that went off once every hour so that I would notice that an hour had gone by. (from the length of some of my posts you can figure out where the time goes). I really lose track, don't like to think about it either. As a matter of fact I don't know why it hasn't gone off in a few weeks: I must have turned that annoying thing off.
That was the most helpful thing I've found to date: if I could put an hourly alarm on my watch I would do that as well.
There is a large box on my front porch from my mother in law (she emailed to say its full of good stuff for ADD) but I just step over it on the way in and out. LOL.
I wish I had answers.
Kate
Posted by BLPBart on June 27, 2002, at 22:42:54
In reply to ADD Question For Others With It, posted by IsoM on June 25, 2002, at 11:34:34
BTW, I wanted to mention that I can really relate to your description of gardening. I always think how wonderful it would be if I had time to garden and all of the great things I would do. It takes me forever to get motivated enough to start though. Then when I do, I'll literally be out there until it's dark and my husband makes me come in the house.
Posted by Hildi on June 30, 2002, at 10:53:53
In reply to Re:Motivation, Anhedonia, and Meds for ADD, posted by IsoM on June 26, 2002, at 14:03:05
> Thanks, folks, for answering. The medication I take has helped enormously with motivation & anhedonia. I'm not depressed in the least now, I feel very excited by life, & there's *so* much I want to do, learn, make, etc. It's just this one sticky area - making myself start something, that bothers me. Almost like someone needs to stand behind me with a live wire & zap me going - to flick the on switch. Then after I've been going for a while, come along & flick the switch off or reset me for another task.
>
> Whatever the moment catches me in, I feel stuck in that mode & mood till I'm tire out. I love the idea of an ADD coach & have tried to find out more what they do but never got enough info when I asked that properly
> explains what they do. Just generalities like 'motivates' the client. Can anyone answer what do they do? Show up on your doorstep & lead you through the day? Phone every hour to check on you, or what? I can work out schedules & plans fine, just can't stick to them.
>
> It was better for me when my sons were small & lived at home. It forced me to be organised for them, to schedule myself for them. But with no one to force myself, I tend to let things slip. Maybe I should get a puppy that needs frequent looking after but can't stand a messy house. I think right now, I'd be able to gather enough cat hair from carpet & furniture to make another cat. But when my sons were small, I kept the floor clean enough to eat off as they played on it & would stick anything they found into their mouths. Arrggh! I wish I could twist my leg about & give myself a swift kick in the a$$ (that okay, Dr. Bob?).
>
> I have the problem Morgan brought out where I do all sorts of things but never complete most & when I've explored something to the limits of the understanding I can give it, I get bored. The more some subject is explored, the less diversified the focus becomes, & I resent those limitations. I want to know every aspect of what interests me, not just hone in on one area to the exclusion of others. And then to be able to actually accomplish something, the mundane parts of it as well as the exciting parts.
>
> I think that's the curse of ADD people. Perhaps only those with lots of money to hire a secretary, maid, & some workers to keep track of & do the mundane tasks are the satisfied ones.Gosh- I thought it was just me! This difficulty starting projects and the inability to stop, once I start, is something I always though was a personal personality/character flaw of mine and comes from my perfectionistic tendencies. (Is this where my perfectionism comes from, I wonder?) What do you take that helps? Right now I cannot muster up the motivation to do anything. I feel apathetic. I hate this feeling.
On good days with the last AD I was on I had motivation, but right now I feel nothing.
Posted by IsoM on June 30, 2002, at 14:45:27
In reply to Re:Motivation, Anhedonia, and Meds for ADD, posted by Hildi on June 30, 2002, at 10:53:53
Hildi, it's adrafinil I take. I order it online from an overseas site. It's legal to do so for personal use, at least here in Canada. It's done so much for depression, motivation, anhedonia, etc but still can't fix my focus. I've come to believe that no med can or will fix up basic brain wiring that's genetically preprogrammed in us. I've seen it in my brother & very much in one son of mine too. We have different personalities but seem to handle or approach doing things the same way.
Like you, I used to think it was a character flaw & if I just smartened up, I'd lick it but have learned better. It doesn't mean I give up & will continue to overcome it as best as possible but I wish it wasn't a battle with me all the time.
Posted by Zo on July 3, 2002, at 16:53:02
In reply to Re: ADD Question For Others With It, posted by BLPBart on June 27, 2002, at 22:42:54
Very hard. Pdoc decribed it as a difficulty with *transitions.* Because the two functions are sooo far from each other. . .I have loathed the vegetable-coma days all my life. They felt awful. Now I'm thinking that sick feeling was a symptom of the imbalance. . .or rather, the sicky stuff the brain puts out (the adrenals?) when it is stressed.
Same thing as the Bipolar sticky-switch?I've just been noticing life-long phenomena that Provigil erased. It oils the switch?
I appreciate how hard our brains have to work, to span the distance.
Einstein went out in the snow in his pajamas.
I need a wife.
Zo
Posted by IsoM on July 3, 2002, at 19:46:45
In reply to Re: Boy, that kick start is hard., posted by Zo on July 3, 2002, at 16:53:02
"I need a wife." Isn't it true? So many of us need what the old-style wives provided - someone to keep track of things for us & do the small mundane things we're so good at forgetting.
It's not just the kick starting I have trouble with but the 'compulsion' to want to switch to other tasks when I'm getting bored(?), tired(?), need new mental stimulation(?) even if I'm right in the middle of something. If I don't get hyperfocused or it's not something I can multitask at, I want to drop what I'm doing & do something else. It's something that almost consumes my focus & interferes with what I'm doing now - I still haven't found anything that nicely clears my mind so I can do one thing at a time calmly. Sometimes my mind wants my body to be able to do a dozen things at a time.
The only time I've been able to is when I've taken a BZD & Dexedrine, along with my usual adrafinil. I feel very calm, focused, & attentive. But it's not something that a doctor wants to prescribe for regular use even if he absolutely knew the patient wouldn't abuse it.
Posted by Automated Lady on July 4, 2002, at 10:22:18
In reply to Re: ADD Question For Others With It, posted by morgan26 on June 26, 2002, at 9:51:23
I had never heard of ADD until I read this post. I'm in the UK (of course) so it probably doesn't officially exist over here. But all the stuff in these posts is 100% what I struggle with. Are there any websites you can direct me to, anybody?
AL
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