![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by judy1 on June 3, 2002, at 23:47:34
they have bipolar disorder? I looked over the medicine board and glanced through the bipolar threads. Many sounded depressed and anxious with no hypo or manic symptoms (and yes I'm aware that I seem to be the only one here who regularly gets euphoric rather than mixed during mania). I guess my question is are pdocs diagnosing it more or are people diagnosing it themselves? And if that's the case why in the world would anyone choose such a devastating disease? I remember going through several diagnosis before bp1- schizophrenia, schozoaffective, borderline, etc. It wasn't until I was hospitalized after 10 years of symptoms with a psychotic manic episode that I received this one. And that's after AD induced manias, hypomanic episodes where I didn't sleep for days and spent tens of thousands of dollars, etc. Any thoughts? Thanks, Judy
Posted by IsoM on June 4, 2002, at 1:01:34
In reply to What's the deal with so many people thinking..., posted by judy1 on June 3, 2002, at 23:47:34
Judy, I think it's this desperate search we have to put a label on all these myriad of symptoms we have without knowing what exactly it is.
It seems if we can give something a name, people think it'll make it more treatable. The trouble is, I believe, that not everything can be named. Whatever we have can be a combination of environment, childhood conditions, & heredity producing a varied list of problems & symptoms. Sometimes, we do have a recognisable disorder, but often I think it's more a reaction to all the things that have happened to us chemically (physically) & emotionally.
It also seems that many people who have ADD symptoms can confuse it with bipolar II when it's not so clear-cut. While I have fibromyalgia symptoms, I'm not truly convinced that's what I have. And my ADD & narcolepsy fits the criteria so closely, yet I'm not fully convinced about me having those either. All I know is that what troubles me comes very close to those categories. It's reassuring to many to actually put a name to their problems. It makes it seem real to them & helps them feel that they're simply not hypochondriacs when someone asks them what's the matter. The symptoms are real - whether the diagnosis is, is another matter.
Posted by judy1 on June 4, 2002, at 12:50:23
In reply to Re: What's the deal with so many people thinking... » judy1, posted by IsoM on June 4, 2002, at 1:01:34
And I guess accounts for the patient's desire for a label. But it still leaves the doctor, who seems to casually hand out these labels (a lot more then say a decade ago). I'm aware the pharmaceutical industry carries the cost of the DSM, so to be paranoid here- are they (the industry) pushing drs. to quickly label a patient so drugs can be prescribed that have been linked to that label? I just need to emphasize my perception that drs are quicker to label now then in the past. Thanks again- Judy
Posted by shar on June 5, 2002, at 0:02:10
In reply to Thanks, Judy that helped » IsoM, posted by judy1 on June 4, 2002, at 12:50:23
>But it still leaves the doctor, who seems to casually hand out these labels (a lot more then say a decade ago).
........I believe another thing that is happening is that many types of dr's are handing out diagnoses than before. GP's, ob-gyn's, etc. IMO, the drug companies are making it look far too easy to make an accurate diagnosis. I also believe that many patients go to their docs saying "I'm anxious" or "I'm depressed" and getting a specific med, one they've seen an ad about, for example. I doubt that pts. go in saying 'I'm bipolar' so I don't know about the rise in that dx. But the whole area of psychopharmacology seems to be much more diffuse nowadays.
>are they (the industry) pushing drs. to quickly label a patient so drugs can be prescribed that have been linked to that label?
.........I think it is very likely this is happening. Did you see the show (it was 20/20 or 48 hours or 60 minutes I believe) on the drug companies and the games they play?
Shar
Posted by judy1 on June 5, 2002, at 0:57:16
In reply to Judy, I think you are right re dx, posted by shar on June 5, 2002, at 0:02:10
With Peter Jennings? I thought it was terrifying, how they try to prevent generics by slightly changing a med (e.g. prozac to extended form) and sometimes by out and out lying. What struck me the most was that 80% of future drugs are simply slight variations of existing ones. It's all about money... Take care, Judy
Posted by Krazy Kat on June 6, 2002, at 12:52:26
In reply to Yes I did » shar, posted by judy1 on June 5, 2002, at 0:57:16
this is a really good question. I think Shar's observation about different "types" of Dr.'s handing out diagnoses now was Extrememly Insightful. I hadn't even thought about that. It's not their expertise, so that must be making a difference in numbers. Would an obgyn diagnosis give you an eye exam and presribe your glasses?
re: the increase in BP as a diagnosis... it does seem that way. Of course, with BPII and BPIII coming along, the criteria opened up, so more people fit into the "Bipolar Spectrum". I like that term best because it fits my family perfectly. Four of us could fit into different Bipolar diagnoses, myself and Brother as BPI, my Dad and sister as Cyclothymic(sp?).
I think a good pdoc will use a diagnosis to help with the treatment. If mine had started me on a stabilizer, instead of Ad's, I would have been much better off. That was a bad decision on his part. But then, I'm a bad patient, and do not express myself well. Also, I lied for a good year and a half about the psychotic side of my manias - I was embarrassed.
re: IsoM's statement:
"It makes it seem real to them & helps them feel that they're simply not hypochondriacs when someone asks them what's the matter. The symptoms are real - whether the diagnosis is, is another matter. "This is absolutely true for me. I pushed my pdoc for a diagnosis - he was reluctant to give me one. But after about a year, he stated (agreed perhaps) that it was BP. Also, it helps one do research when one has a diagnosis. Reading a book on OCD doesn't help me - reading one on Manic Depression does. And it helps one keep up with treatments.
Until we can look directly at our brains and say "Look, this person obviously does not produce enough Dopamine - she is Manic Depressive." I guess we'll all be guessing and reassuring ourselves that we aren't just "crazy" but have a legitimate illness.
Posted by judy1 on June 6, 2002, at 18:55:20
In reply to my thoughts as a bipolar , posted by Krazy Kat on June 6, 2002, at 12:52:26
I think my biggest concerns here is that people who are 'mildly' bipolar at best are being prescribed some pretty heavy medications- in particular APs. I know that if I have a manic episode (as a dxed BP1) I will be given a mood stabilizer and AP. I also know that I have developed irreversible tremors on atypical APs, which supposedly is rare. But I do know that my psychiatrist is trying to prevent a stint in the psych ward (especially now with a new baby) and he is pulling out the big guns. What I am reading though are posts describing depressive episodes with some irritability and then getting the label bipolar. Again I agree with you about degrees of disorders, I disagree about the over-treatment I'm seeing. Take care, Judy
Posted by Krazy Kat on June 6, 2002, at 19:05:34
In reply to Re: my thoughts as a bipolar » Krazy Kat, posted by judy1 on June 6, 2002, at 18:55:20
judy - i agree with you entirely. i do wish my pdoc had prescribed a stabilizer for me first and foremost, yet I know he was being cautious re: the amount and type of meds out of logical concern. so i praise him for that. boy, tremors -- i have Bad tremors from Depakote at times. I don't know if they're reversible or not. and the cognitive side effects - awful.
i esp. identify with the question, "why would anyone Want to have such a horrible disease?" anyone who's taken these meds knows they're no fun. oh, and those suicide attempts - rather rough on family. ;)
but there's a romantic view of mental illness these days. the "crazy" are the "creative". and i don't think some people realize that one can't get dressed in the morning much less paint a masterpiece during most of these "episodes".
is that along the lines of your thoughts?
i read something about all mood disorders being a part of the same spectrum. that's an interesting take. and if that's the case, unless someone is suicidal or psychotic, i imagine a pdoc is best off prescribing the least intrusive med first. so, thinking further, mine was probably acting in the best way possible.
please know i completely understood your question, wasn't "challenging it at all", just thinking it through.
take care and hope you and your children are doing well.
- kk
Posted by Tabitha on June 7, 2002, at 5:42:28
In reply to Re: my thoughts as a bipolar » judy1, posted by Krazy Kat on June 6, 2002, at 19:05:34
Judy,
You're wondering if maybe people are being overdiagnosed at this point or self-diagnosing?
One thought, here in California where we have mental health parity laws for health insurance, a BP diagnosis gets better reimbursement than a "lower" mood disorder like dysthymia (sp?). At least that's one good thing about the diagnosis-- more free therapy!
Posted by judy1 on June 7, 2002, at 11:22:28
In reply to Re: my thoughts as a bipolar, posted by Tabitha on June 7, 2002, at 5:42:28
Hi,
I think it's a combination of both- but perhaps the consumer more since that is what I'm being exposed to on this and other sites. As the internet makes these self-diagnosis tools more available and the psychiatrist spends maybe 15 minutes with the patient, I think you get a pretty large chance of error. I also live in California and think we're 1 of the few states with parity for major mental illnesses (interesting thought on your part) Take care, Judy
Posted by judy1 on June 7, 2002, at 11:27:07
In reply to Re: my thoughts as a bipolar » judy1, posted by Krazy Kat on June 6, 2002, at 19:05:34
Hi KK,
I also agree with your post- I don't know if people 'want' this disorder for it's creative aspects, although when I am hypomanic I know people have told me they wish they could feel like me (even psychiatrists!) although this has never happened when manic. Thank you and you take care of yourself too- Judy
Posted by omega man on June 9, 2002, at 19:19:44
In reply to What's the deal with so many people thinking..., posted by judy1 on June 3, 2002, at 23:47:34
i'm late into this thread..but I went through this ..thinking I had BP when it was very bad seasonal depression...with AD induced mania...and mood swings..
I wanted a BP diagnosis really because when you get hit with mental illness its so bloody draining you want DSM stamped and treated pronto..and you want the hardest label so you get the hardest drugs and most rigorous treatments..also the label helps explain your behaviours to all your friends in one easy to understand word that lets it all of the hook.
Posted by judy1 on June 10, 2002, at 13:58:12
In reply to Re: What's the deal with so many people thinking... » judy1, posted by omega man on June 9, 2002, at 19:19:44
I tend to think there's a lot of shame attached to this label- it is, afterall, a psychotic disorder at it's worst (on par with schizophrenia). So I guess I don't consider this part of my 'social' discussions, outside of my own fear of rejection comes a very real prejudice in the workplace of not just myself but my husband. Thanks for your perspective- Judy
Posted by Krazy Kat on June 12, 2002, at 9:38:30
In reply to Re: What's the deal with so many people thinking... » judy1, posted by omega man on June 9, 2002, at 19:19:44
i had very similar feelings, after a few sessions with my pdoc. and i still don't know quite what the answer is since those with bp disorder are better off being treated with a stabilizer immediately.
Posted by trouble on June 15, 2002, at 2:25:07
In reply to What's the deal with so many people thinking..., posted by judy1 on June 3, 2002, at 23:47:34
Posted by jdgjdg on February 18, 2004, at 0:25:18
In reply to Re: my thoughts as a bipolar » judy1, posted by Krazy Kat on June 6, 2002, at 19:05:34
> judy - i agree with you entirely. i do wish my pdoc had prescribed a stabilizer for me first and foremost, yet I know he was being cautious re: the amount and type of meds out of logical concern. so i praise him for that. boy, tremors -- i have Bad tremors from Depakote at times. I don't know if they're reversible or not. and the cognitive side effects - awful.
>
> i esp. identify with the question, "why would anyone Want to have such a horrible disease?" anyone who's taken these meds knows they're no fun. oh, and those suicide attempts - rather rough on family. ;)
>
> but there's a romantic view of mental illness these days. the "crazy" are the "creative". and i don't think some people realize that one can't get dressed in the morning much less paint a masterpiece during most of these "episodes".
>
> is that along the lines of your thoughts?
>
> i read something about all mood disorders being a part of the same spectrum. that's an interesting take. and if that's the case, unless someone is suicidal or psychotic, i imagine a pdoc is best off prescribing the least intrusive med first. so, thinking further, mine was probably acting in the best way possible.
>
> please know i completely understood your question, wasn't "challenging it at all", just thinking it through.
>
> take care and hope you and your children are doing well.
>
> - kk
Hello...I'm new to this and found this thread by searching "bipolar". I was recently diagnosed with bipolar after what seems like a life time of denial. My doctor mentioned Lithium in addition to Wellbutrin. I am currently taking Lexapro for OCD as well. I know the Lexapro did not cause the bipolar because I can trace symptoms back many, many years. I actually had a pretty good stint of almost 2 years mania free. This has unfortunately come to an end. Anyway...what I was getting at. I'm nervous about taking such a heavy duty drug such as lithium. I could barely tolerate Zoloft and my doctor switched me to Lexapro which gives me no problems. Unfortunately, the Lex does nothing for the depression or manic episodes. Thank goodness it helps the OCD. Can anyone think of topics and concerns I should present to my psychiatrist? I will also be seeing a therapist twice weekly. I am blessed to have a great Psychiatrist who actually listens to me. I think he will be receptive to any of my concerns. I just know nothing about the drugs to treat bipolar. Thanks...jdgjdg
Posted by fallsfall on February 18, 2004, at 7:22:35
In reply to Re: my thoughts as a bipolar, posted by jdgjdg on February 18, 2004, at 0:25:18
I was on Lithium for 8 1/2 years. The only real problem I had with it was that it affected my thyroid so I had to take Synthroid while I was taking the Lithium. I came off 6 months ago because it seemed like things were going well and it was time to drop some drug. I had been on Lithium the longest so we decided to try that. I did have a little more energy after dropping the lithium.
Other side effects that were worth putting up with were tremors (can be treated with SMALL amounts of Proprananol), dry mouth (take a bottle of water everywhere you go). In general, I think the side effects from the Lithium were less problematic than the side effects I've had from other meds. Each person is different, and you would have to see how you react.
Lithium has been around for a LONG time and is WIDELY used because it works. I would give it a try. Of all of the meds I've been on (someday I'll count them - maybe 30 or 40 different meds), Lithium is one of my favorites.
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 18, 2004, at 23:55:55
In reply to Re: my thoughts as a bipolar, posted by jdgjdg on February 18, 2004, at 0:25:18
> I'm new to this and found this thread by searching "bipolar". I was recently diagnosed with bipolar after what seems like a life time of denial. My doctor mentioned Lithium in addition to Wellbutrin...
Welcome! Sorry if it's confusing, but there are a number of boards here, and (just plain) Psycho-Babble is the one that focuses on medication. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20040218/msgs/315454.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by deirdrehbrt on February 19, 2004, at 18:52:58
In reply to Re: my thoughts as a bipolar » jdgjdg, posted by fallsfall on February 18, 2004, at 7:22:35
I think maybe I'll add my own viewpoints here. There were quite a few things mentioned so far, and maybe I'll hit on a couple.
First, as far as what is an 'attractive diagnosis', I think, and hope that such a thing doesn't really exist. I suppose that I would rather have some than others, but I don't have a choice. I have four diagnoses, and they are all quite horrible. I have bipolar 1, DID, BPD, and GID; they all stink.
I suppose that the people who want bipolar are looking for the mania or the hypomania. Sure there were times when I was exceptionally creative while being on the high side, but it just isn't worth it. It is a very small step from creative to 'off the wall'. I made that jump more than once. Also, feeling good while being manic doesn't make you safe.
Another note..... being diagnosed as bipolar doesn't make you manic. Ergo, getting the diagnosis doesn't give you the symptoms you want. I would much rather have all of it gone. I would rather be my own self, without the moods altered by illness, than to be hypomanic or manic for another day. My long periods of mania would completely exhaust me. Imagine staying up for days on end, working and working. It takes a toll on a body. When you come down from the high, you can hit bottom really fast. I've had times when I came down while driving. It was almost impossible to stay on the road. Being sick, it wouldn't occur to me that I could have called someone.
From what I've seen, none of the meds that I've been on could be used to make someone creative. About the most that they will do is put someone to sleep really fast. It's one of those things that kind of proves that if you don't need it, you shouldn't try it. I recall a friend's boyfriend trying some of her Seroquel, and learning the hard way that it wasn't a recreational drug. It is also sobering to learn that what I take for meds in a day could put a family to sleep for a week-end.
In any case, I can't think of any disease or diagnosis which would seem attractive once you have it for real. Disease is a self-defining word, and it is what it is for a reason. I can't wait for the day when I am actually stable. I know I won't be 'healed' but I would settle for better.
Dee
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.