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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by trouble on January 27, 2002, at 3:01:18
It has taken me fifteen hours to get here. Now I know what it's like to climb an ice-covered Kilamanjaro in roller skates. But I've stuck with this b/c I need a peer group so much, and the fact that this site is overseen by a quirky father figure is totally aces with me. Y'all sound plenty smart and charming and I hope I can make a contribution.
My ruling nightmare is a recent conflict w/ my shrink, who looks like Robert Downey Jr. and wears sharkskin suits. Ergo, I adore him. He became enraged w/me Wednesday when he returned to the office and saw me studying my chart. I've never seen him so upset and we've battled majorly in the 3 years I've been seein him. He said he'd fire me on the spot if I ever did that again. "This is mine," I said evenly, gesturing to the 4 inch thick folder. "It's mine," he intoned, and around we went. Any doctor would be appalled at what I'd done, he said, and I should ask 20 people if they think I was out of line. I replied that I don't care if 50 people tell me I was perfectly appropriate I'll never do it again seeing how it effected him so and I meant it. My question is shall I chalk this hypersensitivity up to HIS STUFF or am I truly out of bounds peeking at my chart when a dr. steps out of the room? Incidentally he isn't withholding secrets from me, he reads me his words verbatim any time I ask him to. Any response would be appreciated!
Posted by Phil on January 27, 2002, at 8:51:39
In reply to ANGRY PSYCHIATRIST, posted by trouble on January 27, 2002, at 3:01:18
Better to leave your chart to Elvis Downey Jr.
You could read something out of context, like my EX g/f did when she read my journal.
Your relationship should be based on trust. What if you left a personal diary in his office and came back to catch him reading through it?
My shrink probably would have had a few choice words for me.Phil
Posted by finelinebob on January 27, 2002, at 10:15:22
In reply to Re: ANGRY PSYCHIATRIST, posted by Phil on January 27, 2002, at 8:51:39
You know, on one hand...
As an educator (both from being a student and a teacher), I could never understand all the secrecy behind answer keys to tests. I mean, you spend a month or so trying to help a group of people by teaching them something, then when it comes time to see if they did learn something you contrive questions intended to stump them and show how little they've learned, then you guard the key to this puzzle like a junkyard dog would guard a dented, rusted fender from a Chrysler K car. Getting so ravenously overprotective of your chart sounded the same to me.
... on the other hand ...
I'm glad Phil got here first. Context being the big thing. I imagine my therapist writing down shreds of ideas or insights she may have during our sessions -- some of which she does share, But I'd bet there are notes of lines of thought that she eventually disagreed with and dropped ... but they're still there on the paper.
I'd rather hear her thoughts, theories, projections, etc. than read about them.
flb
Oh, the reaction? My vote, some reaction justified, screaming about it not. Then again, since it's happened before from both of you, maybe that's an important way of communicating in very specific, special situations. [shrug]
Posted by Dinah on January 27, 2002, at 10:24:00
In reply to ANGRY PSYCHIATRIST, posted by trouble on January 27, 2002, at 3:01:18
I suppose I understand why your psychiatrist was upset. I also understand why you peeked. I have always been tempted to do the same (but have never been able to do more than read my blood pressure and pulse upside down). I wouldn't do it with my therapist, but I would with most other doctors. After all it is YOUR file. He shouldn't have left you alone with your file and then gotten angry with you for looking. It's like leaving a steak on the table and being angry with the dog for eating it.
Medical records can always be requested in our state and I have done it on a regular basis once I leave a doctor. I just like to know what they're writing about me. It can be quite interesting at times, and yes at times it can also be quite upsetting. I chose not to request the file from the pdoc who worked with my therapist because I have no desire to find out what my therapist really thinks about me. I think doctors might be getting a little more careful about what they write down because of the disclosure laws and good thing too. My old pediatric record is absolutely full of value judgements.
Posted by robinibor on January 27, 2002, at 12:35:37
In reply to Re: ANGRY PSYCHIATRIST » trouble, posted by Dinah on January 27, 2002, at 10:24:00
I asked Dick what he would do if he was called out of the room, then came back to find a client reading his/her file. He said [and he didn't know why I was asking] they would talk about it...and when I asked if he would be upset, he said he would be a little upset, but because the client hadn't just asked.
Maybe it makes a difference that he is a Ph.D. social worker therapist and not an MD psychiatrist?
Posted by Fi on January 27, 2002, at 13:53:44
In reply to ANGRY PSYCHIATRIST, posted by trouble on January 27, 2002, at 3:01:18
Definitely *his* stuff,not yours! I agree with the 'steak on a table' metaphor- if is something so appallingly private to him, he shouldnt leave you alone with it. After all, what would *he* have done if the roles were reversed? Bet he wouldnt have sat looking at the walls!
However he felt about it, he shouldnt have lost his temper. Personally, I dont think a pdoc should ever rant like that at a patient, but there may be other views on that one... They should see it as another situation to explore/ talk about - why did you want to look? what does it say about the communication between you? and stuff like that.
A long way from the child like level of 'its mine!'You were being the more grown up one in this situation eg agreeing not to do it again since it upset him. That sounds the wrong way round to me...
Fi
Posted by Ritch on January 27, 2002, at 13:57:02
In reply to ANGRY PSYCHIATRIST, posted by trouble on January 27, 2002, at 3:01:18
> It has taken me fifteen hours to get here. Now I know what it's like to climb an ice-covered Kilamanjaro in roller skates. But I've stuck with this b/c I need a peer group so much, and the fact that this site is overseen by a quirky father figure is totally aces with me. Y'all sound plenty smart and charming and I hope I can make a contribution.
> My ruling nightmare is a recent conflict w/ my shrink, who looks like Robert Downey Jr. and wears sharkskin suits. Ergo, I adore him. He became enraged w/me Wednesday when he returned to the office and saw me studying my chart. I've never seen him so upset and we've battled majorly in the 3 years I've been seein him. He said he'd fire me on the spot if I ever did that again. "This is mine," I said evenly, gesturing to the 4 inch thick folder. "It's mine," he intoned, and around we went. Any doctor would be appalled at what I'd done, he said, and I should ask 20 people if they think I was out of line. I replied that I don't care if 50 people tell me I was perfectly appropriate I'll never do it again seeing how it effected him so and I meant it. My question is shall I chalk this hypersensitivity up to HIS STUFF or am I truly out of bounds peeking at my chart when a dr. steps out of the room? Incidentally he isn't withholding secrets from me, he reads me his words verbatim any time I ask him to. Any response would be appreciated!
That was unprofessional. If he didn't want you to look at it he shouldn't have left it out. Leaving it out knowing most patient's natural curiosity could be interpreted as being destructively manipulative. My pdoc keeps that thing under wraps at *all* times. Honestly, I don't want to know what is written in there.Mitch
Posted by IsoM on January 27, 2002, at 19:54:10
In reply to ANGRY PSYCHIATRIST, posted by trouble on January 27, 2002, at 3:01:18
Posted by OldSchool on January 27, 2002, at 20:17:54
In reply to ANGRY PSYCHIATRIST, posted by trouble on January 27, 2002, at 3:01:18
> It has taken me fifteen hours to get here. Now I know what it's like to climb an ice-covered Kilamanjaro in roller skates. But I've stuck with this b/c I need a peer group so much, and the fact that this site is overseen by a quirky father figure is totally aces with me. Y'all sound plenty smart and charming and I hope I can make a contribution.
> My ruling nightmare is a recent conflict w/ my shrink, who looks like Robert Downey Jr. and wears sharkskin suits. Ergo, I adore him. He became enraged w/me Wednesday when he returned to the office and saw me studying my chart. I've never seen him so upset and we've battled majorly in the 3 years I've been seein him. He said he'd fire me on the spot if I ever did that again. "This is mine," I said evenly, gesturing to the 4 inch thick folder. "It's mine," he intoned, and around we went. Any doctor would be appalled at what I'd done, he said, and I should ask 20 people if they think I was out of line. I replied that I don't care if 50 people tell me I was perfectly appropriate I'll never do it again seeing how it effected him so and I meant it. My question is shall I chalk this hypersensitivity up to HIS STUFF or am I truly out of bounds peeking at my chart when a dr. steps out of the room? Incidentally he isn't withholding secrets from me, he reads me his words verbatim any time I ask him to. Any response would be appreciated!Frankly, I dont see how anyone could "adhore" their psychiatrist. LOL But whatever trips your trigger I suppose. As for your Pdoc being pissed about you mulling over your own medical records, welcome to medicine. In most states, your medical records legally are not yours. Legally the records are your doctor's property. The doctor owns them. You do not have trivial access to them.
This is particularly true in psychiatry, more so than in other branches of medicine. Remember in psychiatry there are no medical tests for psychiatrists to go by. This stuff is heavily subjective and a lot of it is just the Pdoc's personal professional opinion of you. Thus I think there is more paranoia for psychiatrists to closely guard what they really think about you. Ive learned that what they really think about you is usually a lot worse than what they let on to your face. Their charts reflect that. Most psychiatrists closely guard their medical records.
You can "request" copies of your medical records to be given to you. In some states you have a right to have copies of your records. In some states if requested the doctor is must give you copies. In other states like mine (North Carolina) you have no legal rights whatsoever to have copies of your medical records. Im serious here. In NC if the doctor doesnt want you to have copies of your records, they are under no legal responsibility to give the records to you. Its tough shit here.
Of course you can report them to the medical board, which the board will call that doctor and "talk" them into giving you your records. That always does the trick I should add. Ive been told by the medical board here in NC that the board "doesnt like it at all" if a doctor refuses to give you copies of your records. However most doctors figure most patients dont even know about the medical board and will never file a complaint against them if they refuse. However if you file a complaint against a doctor with the medical board in order to get your records given to you, dont expect to be able to go back to that psychiatrist again.
Old School
Posted by kazoo on January 28, 2002, at 0:51:58
In reply to ANGRY PSYCHIATRIST, posted by trouble on January 27, 2002, at 3:01:18
There are these quasi-rules called the "Sunshine Laws" which permit the patient to view their medical records/files but only in the presence of the doctor (presumably the one they're seeing).
Your Bob Downey, Jr. clone needs some anger management classes.
So, how long have you been attracted to him, my dear?
Would you like to get naked with me?
kazoo
Posted by ST on January 28, 2002, at 3:51:52
In reply to ANGRY PSYCHIATRIST, posted by trouble on January 27, 2002, at 3:01:18
Wow. I'm truly taken aback. I DO NOT think he should have reacted that way. He should have had an open discussion with you about why it's important to him that you not read his notes...or whatever.
I requested my file a while back and read through it. What a hoot! It was a file that had gone through the hands of about four or five pdocs at Cedars Siani here in L.A. My first doctor had some wierd assumptions about me at first...I saw a running theme through the years...saw my progress...all in all very informative.
I believe you have a right to see what's being written about you. On the other hand, I do see how it also has nothing to do with your relationship with your doc, the way you two communicate during your sessions or your progress. So it could "throw you off" in his eyes. In summation: the doc sounds like he has problems. I wonder what HIS shrink would say if he caught him reading his file.
Sarah> It has taken me fifteen hours to get here. Now I know what it's like to climb an ice-covered Kilamanjaro in roller skates. But I've stuck with this b/c I need a peer group so much, and the fact that this site is overseen by a quirky father figure is totally aces with me. Y'all sound plenty smart and charming and I hope I can make a contribution.
> My ruling nightmare is a recent conflict w/ my shrink, who looks like Robert Downey Jr. and wears sharkskin suits. Ergo, I adore him. He became enraged w/me Wednesday when he returned to the office and saw me studying my chart. I've never seen him so upset and we've battled majorly in the 3 years I've been seein him. He said he'd fire me on the spot if I ever did that again. "This is mine," I said evenly, gesturing to the 4 inch thick folder. "It's mine," he intoned, and around we went. Any doctor would be appalled at what I'd done, he said, and I should ask 20 people if they think I was out of line. I replied that I don't care if 50 people tell me I was perfectly appropriate I'll never do it again seeing how it effected him so and I meant it. My question is shall I chalk this hypersensitivity up to HIS STUFF or am I truly out of bounds peeking at my chart when a dr. steps out of the room? Incidentally he isn't withholding secrets from me, he reads me his words verbatim any time I ask him to. Any response would be appreciated!
Posted by trouble on January 28, 2002, at 11:02:24
In reply to Re: ANGRY PSYCHIATRIST, posted by ST on January 28, 2002, at 3:51:52
Yeah, I agree with the general consensus, but still really like my in-yer-face pdoc 'cuz he doesn't pretent to be something he aint. That's big w/ me.
He's a Babe-alicious Megalomaniac and I'm a Malignant Narcissist so it works out ok.
I have trouble distinguishing aesthetics from reality and tend to nurture derailments for Art's sake. All my life I've been kicked out of cabs and cities and shit, went thru alot of weak-willed shrinks before him and so forth, besides all my other current doctors know how things are between us. He "handles" me. It's our little joke. Plus he taught at the Mayo clinic.Anyway the breadth and diversity in y'alls postings is amazing. I just keep telling myself this website exists. Believe I'll be holding my head a little higher today as I go out and engage with the kind-hearted American mob. Ciaow!
Posted by Willow on January 28, 2002, at 12:28:47
In reply to Re: ANGRY PSYCHIATRIST, posted by ST on January 28, 2002, at 3:51:52
Where was the chart? Nobody addressed this. In my pysch's office he has his desk which is located in a different section from where we "chat." Now in my opinion, anything on the kitchen table (chat area) with my name on it is fair game for my roving eyes.
His desk area I would never touch, even if it had my name on it, legally I do believe it is his. (AKC where are you? Your legal mind would be great here.)
Whispering Willow
ps kazoo you never ask to get naked with me? if you did i would promise to show you the stars beyond our galaxy, but then you haven't suggested this
pps i've always wanted you for your mind, but ...
what's wrong with longing for thy neighbour, it could be declared in the interests of political boundaries? you could sacrifice yourself for your country
Posted by jane d on January 28, 2002, at 22:47:56
In reply to Re: ANGRY PSYCHIATRIST, posted by OldSchool on January 27, 2002, at 20:17:54
> Of course you can report them to the medical board, which the board will call that doctor and "talk" them into giving you your records. That always does the trick I should add. Ive been told by the medical board here in NC that the board "doesnt like it at all" if a doctor refuses to give you copies of your records.
Thanks OldSchool. I wouldn't have thought of that one. I probably won't ever need it because I live in one of those user friendly states that requires doctors to give me copies. I've grown to take this right for granted and so have they. Perhaps this is why I can't see anything wrong with reading the file. It is after all YOUR file. Representing work paid for by you. It's not like you were reading their appointment calendar, their rolodex or their tax returns. I don't think that there should be anything in my file that I don't already know about and if I want to refresh my memory on something why shouldn't I.
Perhaps you can use market forces where the laws aren't up to date. Ask any potential doctor up front whether they believe in sharing their files and if they say no don't use them.
Jane
Posted by OldSchool on January 29, 2002, at 10:33:35
In reply to Seeing records » OldSchool, posted by jane d on January 28, 2002, at 22:47:56
> > Of course you can report them to the medical board, which the board will call that doctor and "talk" them into giving you your records. That always does the trick I should add. Ive been told by the medical board here in NC that the board "doesnt like it at all" if a doctor refuses to give you copies of your records.
>
> Thanks OldSchool. I wouldn't have thought of that one. I probably won't ever need it because I live in one of those user friendly states that requires doctors to give me copies. I've grown to take this right for granted and so have they. Perhaps this is why I can't see anything wrong with reading the file. It is after all YOUR file. Representing work paid for by you. It's not like you were reading their appointment calendar, their rolodex or their tax returns. I don't think that there should be anything in my file that I don't already know about and if I want to refresh my memory on something why shouldn't I.
>Yes in the very conservative state I live in of North Carolina calling the medical board and having them directly call the psychiatrist is a sure fire way to get your medical records fast. Otherwise its like pulling teeth here. Psychiatrists here simply do not like giving out their records. I suspect its very similar in other Southern (conservative) states.
I wish I lived in a state that was more consumer oriented. NC certainly isnt one of them. Um...consider yourself rather lucky you live where you do.
> Perhaps you can use market forces where the laws aren't up to date. Ask any potential doctor up front whether they believe in sharing their files and if they say no don't use them.
LOL I have a better idea. Move out of the South. California and the New England states all have good laws concerning medical stuff and are more consumer oriented states.Old School
Posted by kazoo on February 2, 2002, at 3:49:00
In reply to Question, posted by Willow on January 28, 2002, at 12:28:47
> ps kazoo you never ask to get naked with me?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Nor did you ask me, so who should go first now, but remember "Pearls before Swine."
> ... if you did i would promise to show you the stars beyond our galaxy, but then you haven't suggested this
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
So now I suppose you're going to tell me that the center of the universe is the "mons vernis." How delightful.
> pps i've always wanted you for your mind, but ...
> what's wrong with longing for thy neighbour, it could be declared in the interests of political boundaries? you could sacrifice yourself for your country
^^^^^^^^^^^^
But I can't be sacrificed! Firstly, I am not a virgin and secondly, there's not a volcano for thousands of miles around me.Good night, my dear, Willow ... you're so sweet.
Posted by Willow on February 2, 2002, at 17:49:16
In reply to Re: Question » Willow, posted by kazoo on February 2, 2002, at 3:49:00
> Nor did you ask me,
SURELY YOU JEST!?!?!?> so who should go first now, but remember "Pearls before Swine."
Do I need to remind you how literal I am? A pearl is a useless crumb of sand, not much use standing alone, something like a callus formed around an invisible sliver. Swine have much use; great at grubbing out roots making lands tillable, apparently they also make good pets, scent "hounds," and need I mention that pork gravy is my favourite.
Now if you are referring to yourself as a brutishly sensual man, can I be your Jezebel? (Have I ever mentioned that this is my favourite show of all time? Hmph ... I guess this shows my feminist leanings.) I am old fashioned enough to believe that the man should lead though! So where does this leave us?
>
> So now I suppose you're going to tell me that the center of the universe is the "mons vernis." How delightful.We've obviously had a different form of sex education 101? And if you continue to talk like this I'll be lost in the line of cyber females crying for your attention.
>
> my dear, WillowYou know how much power those few words have over me!! Sniff sniff ... If I recall correctly someone tried to warn you of feminine games, but I think you have perfected the art of flirting. But please don't stop. My heart can pretend it's not game.
Wilting Willow
Posted by Willow on February 3, 2002, at 19:04:17
In reply to In need of clarification ... » kazoo, posted by Willow on February 2, 2002, at 17:49:16
Just had to share this ..
> Two tall trees, a birch and a beech, are growing in the
> woods. A small tree begins to grow between them. The beech
> says to the birch: "Is that a son of a beech or a son of a
> birch? " The birch says he cannot tell.
>
> Just then a woodpecker lands on the sapling. The birch says,
> "Woodpecker, you are a tree expert. Can you tell if that is
> a son of a beech or a son of a birch?" The woodpecker takes
> a taste of the small tree. He replies, "It is neither a son
> of a beech nor a son of a birch. It is, however, the best
> piece of ash I have ever put my pecker in!SMILE
This is the end of the thread.
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