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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Gracie2 on October 2, 2001, at 23:15:07
My husband has an old black labrador that is in constant pain from arthritis. We've been giving him glucosamine and arthritis medication (from vet) but it hasn't helped much. The poor dog gets around by limping and dragging himself along. He falls often, and cries from the pain. He can't climb the steps, so we have to carry this 80-pound dog up and down the stairs. Worse, when he gets himself wedged behind a chair or someplace that he can't get out of - which happens daily - he snarls horribly while you dislodge him. He hasn't snapped at anyone, but I'm getting afraid of him. He still has a few good teeth left.
Worst of all, despite the vet-recommended food, he is now getting attacks of incontinence.
I think it's time to put the dog to sleep, but my husband refuses. This dog is like a child to him. I saw this scenario coming a few years ago and bought my husband a puppy to bond with, a beautiful golden retriever. Now my husband loves both dogs, but maybe it wasn't a good idea. The older dog is jealous of the younger one, although the oldest dog gets the most attention because of his constant problems. The younger dog is so good-natured, he doesn't seem to mind.
Am I being hasty about wanting to put down the old dog?
I think my husband is in denial about how miserable this poor dog really is. Would the veterinarian tell him if he thinks the dog should be put down, or is that a decision they leave to the owners? Has anyone else had to deal with this?
Thanks for your thoughts-
Gracie
Posted by Krazy Kat on October 3, 2001, at 7:29:35
In reply to Any dog advice? Husband in denial, posted by Gracie2 on October 2, 2001, at 23:15:07
> Gracie:
How old is the lab?
Have you tried acupuncture? Believe it or not, it can really help.
I would certainly consult your vet. But, be prepared - besides acupuncture there are surgery options and specialist options nowadays he may mention which can cost a bit.
I'm dog crazy so I'm biased, but this a decision you and your husband have to make on your own.
Try coaxing the dog out of places with food. Also, although I know it's a pain, try cornering off places he can get into. This is typical behavior for an older dog - they're "caving."
Remember, he's just protecting his space and he's in a bad mood because he doesn't feel well.
Check with your vet, but he should be getting aspirin daily, too, unless he's on certain meds. That really helps.
Incontinence is easily handled with stylish doggy diapers.
My favorite, inexpensive pet supply and info site is:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/
It's a very tough decision to make. My thoughts are with you. Keep in mind that the new dog will not replace the old one, and your hubby with need grieving time when the time comes that he passes. I just mention this because it *sounds* as if he's more attached to the lab, and I know from experience that it can be very, very painful to lose a pet who is regarded as a family member. Try to remember this animal as he was before he got old and cranky - as we all will want to be remembered. :)- Good Luck!
Posted by Marie1 on October 3, 2001, at 8:05:09
In reply to Any dog advice? Husband in denial, posted by Gracie2 on October 2, 2001, at 23:15:07
Ohh, Gracie, my first instinct was not to post anything in response; I'm still mourning our dog, Murray, who we had put to sleep in 1997, when he was 15. He was in the same shape your dog is in - nearly blind, totally deaf, incontinent. And snapping at the kids. It was time, I know. But my god, the pain. He was our "test child", you see, and never forgot his status as the "first born". I took him to the vet to discuss euthanazia (sp?), and said "Am I putting this dog to sleep because he's wrecking the carpet?" The vet assured me it was time. I wouldn't have gone ahead if the vet didn't think it was the right thing to do, too. I just wished Murray had died a natural death. Whatever your husband and you decide to do - I wish you a speedy recovery. This is probably not the kind of response you were hoping for, I have no advice. If you want to come here to mourn, I'll look for your posts.
Marie
>
> My husband has an old black labrador that is in constant pain from arthritis. We've been giving him glucosamine and arthritis medication (from vet) but it hasn't helped much. The poor dog gets around by limping and dragging himself along. He falls often, and cries from the pain. He can't climb the steps, so we have to carry this 80-pound dog up and down the stairs. Worse, when he gets himself wedged behind a chair or someplace that he can't get out of - which happens daily - he snarls horribly while you dislodge him. He hasn't snapped at anyone, but I'm getting afraid of him. He still has a few good teeth left.
> Worst of all, despite the vet-recommended food, he is now getting attacks of incontinence.
> I think it's time to put the dog to sleep, but my husband refuses. This dog is like a child to him. I saw this scenario coming a few years ago and bought my husband a puppy to bond with, a beautiful golden retriever. Now my husband loves both dogs, but maybe it wasn't a good idea. The older dog is jealous of the younger one, although the oldest dog gets the most attention because of his constant problems. The younger dog is so good-natured, he doesn't seem to mind.
> Am I being hasty about wanting to put down the old dog?
> I think my husband is in denial about how miserable this poor dog really is. Would the veterinarian tell him if he thinks the dog should be put down, or is that a decision they leave to the owners? Has anyone else had to deal with this?
> Thanks for your thoughts-
> Gracie
Posted by Roo on October 3, 2001, at 9:05:07
In reply to Re: Any dog advice? Husband in denial, posted by Marie1 on October 3, 2001, at 8:05:09
It sounds like it's time to me. I had to go through
this not too long ago with my beloved cat. It was
very hard to make the decision, but I was very glad
I didn't wait until he was totally miserable before I
did it. He had cancer. I had been force feeding him
for months and then it got to the point where I had
to give him IV fluids twice a day. It was time.
I, personally, would talk to the vet. He might take
it more seriously if he hears it from a professional.
Posted by KB on October 3, 2001, at 9:18:38
In reply to Re: Any dog advice? Husband in denial, posted by Roo on October 3, 2001, at 9:05:07
I don't know where you live, but here in NYC
some of the animal rescue groups offer grief counseling and support services for pet owners -
if there's a Bide-a-Wee near you, try them.
Posted by Shar on October 3, 2001, at 15:01:07
In reply to Any dog advice? Husband in denial, posted by Gracie2 on October 2, 2001, at 23:15:07
Hasty????????????
Letting a dog suffer every day, 24 hours per day is not love. It is selfishness, denial, or some other thing, but not love.
Were this my house, I would have the dog put down myself. That would be the decent, civilized, loving thing to do. I am a dog lover to the nth degree, have put two down, now have 2 (one lab), and a foster dog.
I get really furious about this issue. It is the same as hurting a dog all day long and saying "ya think I should stop?" Sorry for the intensity there.
Shar
>
> My husband has an old black labrador that is in constant pain from arthritis. We've been giving him glucosamine and arthritis medication (from vet) but it hasn't helped much. The poor dog gets around by limping and dragging himself along. He falls often, and cries from the pain. He can't climb the steps, so we have to carry this 80-pound dog up and down the stairs. Worse, when he gets himself wedged behind a chair or someplace that he can't get out of - which happens daily - he snarls horribly while you dislodge him. He hasn't snapped at anyone, but I'm getting afraid of him. He still has a few good teeth left.
> Worst of all, despite the vet-recommended food, he is now getting attacks of incontinence.
> I think it's time to put the dog to sleep, but my husband refuses. This dog is like a child to him. I saw this scenario coming a few years ago and bought my husband a puppy to bond with, a beautiful golden retriever. Now my husband loves both dogs, but maybe it wasn't a good idea. The older dog is jealous of the younger one, although the oldest dog gets the most attention because of his constant problems. The younger dog is so good-natured, he doesn't seem to mind.
> Am I being hasty about wanting to put down the old dog?
> I think my husband is in denial about how miserable this poor dog really is. Would the veterinarian tell him if he thinks the dog should be put down, or is that a decision they leave to the owners? Has anyone else had to deal with this?
> Thanks for your thoughts-
> Gracie
Posted by medlib on October 3, 2001, at 15:14:18
In reply to Any dog advice? Husband in denial, posted by Gracie2 on October 2, 2001, at 23:15:07
Hi Gracie--
I'm dealing with a similar problem right now. I promised my mother on her deathbed that I'd care for her dog, and I have for the last 2 1/2 years. He is 15 y.o., slightly arthritic (on pain meds), and "goes" inside more often than outside. A pet door like he had at my mother's house would be a several hundred dollar expense for me, and it wouldn't completely solve the problem (it didn't at mom's).
I'm trying to look at my problem from several different viewpoints--one of which you might want to see if your husband would "try on." Say I was reincarnated as this dog; how would I feel at this point in my life? What would I want a compassionate master to do? (Unfortunately, I'm afraid that I know what my/his answer would be, and I can't afford it.)
I wish you the best of luck in dealing with another of life's delightful lose/lose situations.
A sad and exasperated---medlib
Posted by Phil on October 3, 2001, at 17:46:26
In reply to Re: Any dog advice? Husband in denial, posted by Krazy Kat on October 3, 2001, at 7:29:35
> > Gracie:
Sounds like time for dog afterlife. Any animal in that much pain is suffering big time. What does your vet say? Can he or she control this pain? Will the dog ever walk? If the dog voted, I bet he'd vote to let the little fellow run the house for a while.
Phil
Posted by Shar on October 3, 2001, at 22:08:52
In reply to Re: Any dog advice? Husband in denial » Gracie2, posted by Shar on October 3, 2001, at 15:01:07
BTW, I did not mean any of the stuff I wrote as an attack on YOU or your husband. I do have intense feelings about the issue, having seen too many dogs suffer because their owner's wouldn't help them pass over peacefully.
I reread the post I did and it looked very aggressive as if aimed at you or your family. I did not mean to be aiming at you! I'm sorry if it seemed that I was attacking.
Shar
Posted by kazoo on October 3, 2001, at 23:25:17
In reply to Any dog advice? Husband in denial, posted by Gracie2 on October 2, 2001, at 23:15:07
I have no advice for you, my dear Gracie, because your message provides the very best reason in the world why I do not get another dog. My dog died in 1998 from leukemia and I still ache from the loss. I have more pictures of my dog than I do of my mother (what does THAT tell you?).
Bear in mind that it is the very *act* of bringing the animal to the Vet that makes the person feel like the executioner (despite all the good reasons for doing so). It would be so much easier to take (I think), if the animal would do humans the favor of dying in their sleep, but this rarely happens ... no such luck in most cases. The pain wouldn't be that great if they would just painlessly pass away during the night ... fat chance!
You are in a terrible position, and I don't think anyone here, in this group, would envy you for one second.
If I were to give advice I would have to say this: allow your husband to keep the dog around until HE comes to the realization that his "best friend" is in need of termination. I do not advise you to take the initiative of bringing the dog to the Vet, nor would I have you harp on the subject. You'll have to bear with a sick pet for a while (and this will seem interminable) but hubby has to come to the logical, and inevitable, conclusion himself.
My best to you, my dear, and to your husband who is, and will be for some time, in terrible anguish.
(a heartfelt) kazoo
Posted by Jane D on October 3, 2001, at 23:36:10
In reply to Re: Any dog advice? Husband in denial » Gracie2, posted by kazoo on October 3, 2001, at 23:25:17
Gracie - I'd just like to second everything Kazoo has said. It's a hard thing to live through. - Jane
Posted by Marie1 on October 4, 2001, at 7:35:15
In reply to Re: Any dog advice? Husband in denial » Gracie2, posted by kazoo on October 3, 2001, at 23:25:17
Kazoo,
You said that so well. Sometimes I feel ridiculous mourning this dog for so long, but I guess you still are too. "Executioner" deftly sums it up. I will *never* allow myself to grow so attached to another pet.
I agree that Gracie's husband should come to the same conclusion.
Marie
> I have no advice for you, my dear Gracie, because your message provides the very best reason in the world why I do not get another dog. My dog died in 1998 from leukemia and I still ache from the loss. I have more pictures of my dog than I do of my mother (what does THAT tell you?).
>
> Bear in mind that it is the very *act* of bringing the animal to the Vet that makes the person feel like the executioner (despite all the good reasons for doing so). It would be so much easier to take (I think), if the animal would do humans the favor of dying in their sleep, but this rarely happens ... no such luck in most cases. The pain wouldn't be that great if they would just painlessly pass away during the night ... fat chance!
>
> You are in a terrible position, and I don't think anyone here, in this group, would envy you for one second.
>
> If I were to give advice I would have to say this: allow your husband to keep the dog around until HE comes to the realization that his "best friend" is in need of termination. I do not advise you to take the initiative of bringing the dog to the Vet, nor would I have you harp on the subject. You'll have to bear with a sick pet for a while (and this will seem interminable) but hubby has to come to the logical, and inevitable, conclusion himself.
>
> My best to you, my dear, and to your husband who is, and will be for some time, in terrible anguish.
>
> (a heartfelt) kazoo
Posted by Dinah on October 4, 2001, at 8:53:32
In reply to Re: Any dog advice? Husband in denial » kazoo, posted by Marie1 on October 4, 2001, at 7:35:15
Gracie,
I have had a great number of dogs over the years, and have had to make this decision more times than I want to remember. I've had regrets in both directions. I've finally come up a way to decide that works for me. I observe the dog and see its attitude toward pain. I have had dogs who are utterly miserable with pain and it is absolutely clear that euthanasia would be a blessing to them. I have also had dogs in a great amount of pain who got great enjoyment from their food or from following their beloved master along as best they could and from being loved and petted. For these dogs, the final stage of their lives were a blessing to them and to me. I put up with the incontinence and injections and in one case, daily drip, as the price I gladly pay for their years of companionship. By the way, in the case of the two gallant dogs who had a daily injection or daily drip, they both fought death mightily, and both enjoyed every last minute they had, especially all the extra attention. Their eyes lit up with every kindness and caress. In fact, Lucky with her poor bloated body, danced as she followed my mother, and never seemed to even realize that anything was wrong.
So perhaps there is no one correct answer. Perhaps if you discuss the pros and cons in a compassionate manner with your husband, he will come to see the right answer for his beloved friend.
Dinah
Posted by Gracie2 on October 4, 2001, at 15:50:42
In reply to Re: Any dog advice? Husband in denial-Gracie, posted by Dinah on October 4, 2001, at 8:53:32
After re-reading my own post, I noticed that I never called the dog by name - I think because I am already trying to distance myself. His name is Bruin (my husband is from Boston).
After reading all your posts, I decided it was best just to let it be. Although I agree with Shar- that Bruin should be put to sleep - if I were somehow able to talk my husband into euthanasia (doubtful anyway) I'm afraid my husband would blame me. Part of the grieving process is anger and I would be the prime target.I don't know if Bruin can take aspirin with his arthritis medicine but I will call the vet and ask. I think he is too old for hip replacement even if we could afford it. I never heard of acupuncture for dogs but I will do some web-surfing. Same for Bide-A-Wee (grief counseling).
We live in St. Louis, which is pretty big but nothing on the scale of someplace like New York or Chicago.You are right, Bruin is my husband's dog and he must make the decision. Until then, I will try to
remember him like the dog he used to be and not this cranky, miserable, lame creature. We've had him almost 14 years and he was always loving and an excellent guard dog. Now the golden retriever, he would only hurt someone by knocking them down in his zeal to be played with.Thanks again everyone-
Gracie
Posted by shelliR on October 6, 2001, at 18:44:59
In reply to Dog advice - thanks everyone, posted by Gracie2 on October 4, 2001, at 15:50:42
>
> After re-reading my own post, I noticed that I never called the dog by name - I think because I am already trying to distance myself. His name is Bruin (my husband is from Boston).
> After reading all your posts, I decided it was best just to let it be. Although I agree with Shar- that Bruin should be put to sleep - if I were somehow able to talk my husband into euthanasia (doubtful anyway) I'm afraid my husband would blame me. Part of the grieving process is anger and I would be the prime target.
>
> I don't know if Bruin can take aspirin with his arthritis medicine but I will call the vet and ask. I think he is too old for hip replacement even if we could afford it. I never heard of acupuncture for dogs but I will do some web-surfing. Same for Bide-A-Wee (grief counseling).
> We live in St. Louis, which is pretty big but nothing on the scale of someplace like New York or Chicago.
>
> You are right, Bruin is my husband's dog and he must make the decision. Until then, I will try to
> remember him like the dog he used to be and not this cranky, miserable, lame creature. We've had him almost 14 years and he was always loving and an excellent guard dog. Now the golden retriever, he would only hurt someone by knocking them down in his zeal to be played with.
>
> Thanks again everyone-
> GracieHi Gracie,
I just wanted to add one thing. When my cat had to be put down, it felt 100% better that I found a vet to come to my house, rather than taking her to the vet. My friend was over and my cat died on my lap; I have always felt good that she didn't have to go to the vet (which was not a happy trip and though it was very very sad (I'm am starting to cry just writing this), I think so much better to happen at home. Not quite as good as dying in her sleep, but pretty close. We buried her in the back yard. BTW, it hurt horribly for her to go, but it did help to already have another cat to hold and cry with. I think having the other puppy will help both you and your husband.
Shelli
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