![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 79 to 103 of 116. Go back in thread:
Posted by Krazy Kat on September 12, 2001, at 10:32:35
In reply to Re: I'm terribly saddened - a UK response, posted by sweetmarie on September 12, 2001, at 5:59:33
That was a great response...
Posted by Adam on September 12, 2001, at 13:30:25
In reply to Bit more news..., posted by Adam on September 11, 2001, at 19:22:48
It would appear that a vice-president of my company was on Flight 77. Pretty somber news. I didn't know her at all, but many of the higher-ups did. Two degrees (of separation, that is). Very sad.
Posted by tina on September 12, 2001, at 13:44:19
In reply to Even more news... » Adam, posted by Adam on September 12, 2001, at 13:30:25
> It would appear that a vice-president of my company was on Flight 77. Pretty somber news. I didn't know her at all, but many of the higher-ups did. Two degrees (of separation, that is). Very sad.
Thats awful Adam, I'm so sorry. Unfortunately, I think there will be more revelations like this in the days/weeks to come.
Posted by shelliR on September 12, 2001, at 13:53:35
In reply to Re: Bit more news » shelliR, posted by Elizabeth on September 12, 2001, at 4:23:12
> I heard a rumor that the mall was destroyed. True? I spent a lot of time in that area as a child. Hard to believe that it might just be gone.
>
No, totally false; nothing was destroyed within Washington. The pentagon, of course, is in Northern Virginia.Shelli
Posted by KB on September 12, 2001, at 14:16:16
In reply to The Character of NY » Adam, posted by Krazy Kat on September 11, 2001, at 16:09:28
I just traveled from my home in Brooklyn into Manhattan, and the whole spirit of the City is different - barely any traffic and lots of people walking and riding bikes - reminds me of when I visited Amsterdam. It's also really weird looking at the big gap in the skyline. I live about 7 miles from the explosion but at 6am the smoke blew into my neighborhood and I was awakened by the most horrible smell - between that and the sonic roar of fighter planes going over my house from nearby Fort Hamilton and the church bells ringing non-stop everything just seems very weird.
Posted by shelliR on September 12, 2001, at 14:49:16
In reply to Re: I'm terribly saddened - a UK response, posted by sweetmarie on September 12, 2001, at 5:59:33
> This is awful. It`s completely beyond my comprehension. ......
> My depression has taken a complete nose-dive - it was rocky already, but this has tipped me over. We ALL need to know that it`s O.K. to feel deeply about what has happened, and those of us who are suffering from depression will be really feeling it badly. It`s grief, and a totally natural feeling.Anna, I am so glad that you wrote what you did. I have also plummeted from depression into deep suicidal depression since yesterday. I saw my pdoc today and we talked about possible hospitalization. It never occurred to me how my depression was affected by yesterday's tragedy until I came home and read some of the posts and felt sickened by the debates and analysis. I am way too entrenched in grief to not be offended by purely analytical thinking and any mention of justification by the Palestinians, even if politically I have been in partial agreement with those views.
Then I went back and reread your post and realized that of course, this is why I have been so severely depressed since yesterday afternoon. It was an out-of my-direct life-crisis that toppled right on top of my depression. Your post gave me amazing perspective and it seems strange that my pdoc did not at all ask if my sudden plunge was at all related to our national disaster. In not understanding my depression, I was also dumping on myself for it's self-centeredness.
Anyway, thanks so much; your post, I think, will make my sudden dive less scarey to me.
Shelli
Posted by sweetmarie on September 12, 2001, at 17:18:06
In reply to Re: I'm terribly saddened - a UK response » sweetmarie, posted by shelliR on September 12, 2001, at 14:49:16
> Anna, I am so glad that you wrote what you did. I have also plummeted from depression into deep suicidal depression since yesterday. I saw my pdoc today and we talked about possible hospitalization. It never occurred to me how my depression was affected by yesterday's tragedy until I came home and read some of the posts and felt sickened by the debates and analysis. I am way too entrenched in grief to not be offended by purely analytical thinking and any mention of justification by the Palestinians, even if politically I have been in partial agreement with those views.
>
> Then I went back and reread your post and realized that of course, this is why I have been so severely depressed since yesterday afternoon. It was an out-of my-direct life-crisis that toppled right on top of my depression. Your post gave me amazing perspective and it seems strange that my pdoc did not at all ask if my sudden plunge was at all related to our national disaster. In not understanding my depression, I was also dumping on myself for it's self-centeredness.
>
> Anyway, thanks so much; your post, I think, will make my sudden dive less scarey to me.
> ShelliShelli
I`m glad that my post helped. It was a horrific attack, and raises all kinds of issues - not least the capacity of some to cause such suffering. It shakes our whole view of humankind. However, whilst there is great evil in the world, there is also great good. It is worth remembering this at this time.
Having said all that, I still feel awful - worse than for a long time. Grief passes, though. We will all get through this.
Love,
Anna.
Posted by sweetmarie on September 13, 2001, at 4:16:49
In reply to Re: I'm terribly saddened - a UK response » shelliR, posted by sweetmarie on September 12, 2001, at 17:18:06
As I`m alone (my whole family is out of the country), I don`t have anyone to talk to just now, which makes this even harder to cope with.
Any of you feel like dropping me a line or two? I`d be very grateful
Anna.
Posted by Jane D on September 13, 2001, at 8:54:00
In reply to Re: a UK response - help needed, posted by sweetmarie on September 13, 2001, at 4:16:49
Anna -
Why don't you try logging in to Psycho Babble Open. It's most busy in the Evenings (US time) which is rather late for you but people have also been dropping in during the day. As you can imagine this is the big topic right now.If you need help getting signed up there are several posts on the Admin board addressing problems other people have had.
I'll look for you there.
Jane
Posted by Krazy Kat on September 13, 2001, at 9:30:40
In reply to Re: a UK response - help needed » sweetmarie, posted by Jane D on September 13, 2001, at 8:54:00
> I'll try to stop by this afternoon - so NY time, maybe @3:00?
I feel like talking to, which is odd. :)
Posted by sweetmarie on September 13, 2001, at 12:32:20
In reply to psycho babble open..., posted by Krazy Kat on September 13, 2001, at 9:30:40
> > I'll try to stop by this afternoon - so NY time, maybe @3:00?
>
> I feel like talking to, which is odd. :)Hi
I`ll try and be there. Thanks,
Anna.
Posted by Zo on September 13, 2001, at 18:06:18
In reply to -- First Poem for the Dead --, posted by kid_A on September 11, 2001, at 11:28:59
Posted by shelliR on September 13, 2001, at 23:03:11
In reply to Re: psycho babble open... » Krazy Kat , posted by sweetmarie on September 13, 2001, at 12:32:20
> > > I'll try to stop by this afternoon - so NY time, maybe @3:00?
> >
> > I feel like talking to, which is odd. :)
>
> Hi
>
> I`ll try and be there. Thanks,
>
> Anna.
Anna, could you create a temp e-mail address (like at Yahoo, or hotmail, or whatever they have in the UK) and post it. Not your regular e-mail address. Then I can send you distractions now and then, like pictures that I don't have the capasity to share on the board? If this feels intrusive, I understand; I thought it might be fun. Let me know.Shelli
Posted by sweetmarie on September 14, 2001, at 4:53:24
In reply to Re: psycho babble open..., posted by shelliR on September 13, 2001, at 23:03:11
> > > > I'll try to stop by this afternoon - so NY time, maybe @3:00?
> > >
> > > I feel like talking to, which is odd. :)
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > I`ll try and be there. Thanks,
> >
> > Anna.
>
>
> Anna, could you create a temp e-mail address (like at Yahoo, or hotmail, or whatever they have in the UK) and post it. Not your regular e-mail address. Then I can send you distractions now and then, like pictures that I don't have the capasity to share on the board? If this feels intrusive, I understand; I thought it might be fun. Let me know.
>
> Shelli
ShelliI tried to get onto psycho babble open, but couldn`t. Actually, I had taken a sleeping tablet, so I can`t exactly remember why I couldn`t get in (a bit embarrassing ... ). I have a feeling that it had to do with setting up some kind of account ? Anyway, I`ll try again.
Re. another email address. I`ve been meaning to set up another one for awhile now, and your suggestion has prompted me to do so. It`s really kind of you to think of me - I totally appreciate it. I`ll get onto that today and let you know what it is. Maybe I can send you stuff too ... It`s not `intrusive` at all - it`s a really nice thought. I`ll let you know.
How are you feeling now?
I`ve woken up feeling really grotty and frightened that I`ve relapsed. Not that I`d got very far, anyway ... Keep trying to tell myself that there are reasons for feeling this bad (and there are many), but logic doesn`t come easy really (as I`m sure you know).
I keep thinking that my meds should be taking up more of the slack than they are. But, they were only just begining to `work`, when all this happened (coming out of hospital and back to living alone and no `after-care`, my best friend`s o/dose and subsequent rejection of me, my parents going away for 2 weeks, having to `manage` two households - my flat and my parents` house - , and now this latest horror). I guess that even the best meds can`t battle against all those odds. Or, this is what I keep telling myself.
Anyway, I`m sure you have heard enough of my moaning. Thanks for your offer - I`ll let you know when I`ve sorted it.
Love,
Anna.
Posted by sweetmarie on September 14, 2001, at 11:24:08
In reply to Re: psycho babble open... » shelliR, posted by sweetmarie on September 14, 2001, at 4:53:24
I now have a new email address -I`ve been wondering how you are ... let me know.
I seem to be on the slippery slope downwards, but I`m TRYING not to be too alarmed.
Love,
Anna.
Posted by Noa on September 14, 2001, at 17:15:21
In reply to Empathy and Depression, posted by Krazy Kat on September 11, 2001, at 11:14:55
I am reading this site for the first time in a long while. I am sorry, Krazy Kat, for your losses. It is overwhelming. I hope there are people nearby to connect to during this horrible time.
Posted by Noa on September 14, 2001, at 17:16:55
In reply to Re: I'm terribly saddened., posted by Elizabeth on September 11, 2001, at 11:33:39
E-
Have you heard anything yet?
Posted by tina on September 14, 2001, at 19:49:02
In reply to Re: I'm terribly saddened. » Elizabeth, posted by Noa on September 14, 2001, at 17:16:55
We miss you at ASH.....
T
Posted by shelliR on September 14, 2001, at 20:39:21
In reply to Re: psycho babble open... - ShelliR, posted by sweetmarie on September 14, 2001, at 11:24:08
>
> I now have a new email address -
>
> photojennyuk@yahoo.com
>
> I`ve been wondering how you are ... let me know.
>
> I seem to be on the slippery slope downwards, but I`m TRYING not to be too alarmed.
>
> Love,
>
> Anna.Hi Anna
I am actually still having a really hard time. Instead of going into the hospital, I am trying for this weekend not to make myself work, and not to feel guilty. I have not found going into the hospital much comfort the last two times I went in, so if I can get through this at home, it will be better.
Just came back Sunday from a beautiful vacation, mostly all positive, then Tuesday afternoon I crashed so it must be related to our national crisis, although it is not linked in my mind. I don't know why I have felt so suicidal this week. I can understand being upset, but suicidal seems strange., and absolutely nonconstructive. I'm hoping this feeling will pass. Meanwhile, I have started my old MAOI (nardil) with wellbutrin. I've done wellbutrin for a few weeks now, with no antidepressant effects, but it has energized me. Hopefully restarting nardil after being off it for so long will help. You are on remeron, right? Have you experienced weight gain? I possibly might try that if the nardil doesn't work for me; my pdoc thinks wellbutrin with remeron might be a good combo and that wellbutrin would balance out a weight gain. I think I'd like to change from opiates from oxycontin to buprenorphine because the oxy is losing effect for me. So there are still a lot of things to try; I'm just scared about letting people down workwise and messing up my business.
This weekend I'll try to spend some time in my garden; It is cool enough to move plants around a bit and I'll try to catch some sales at plant shops if I'm not too late. Tonight I went to a candle-lighting vigil in my neighborhood and although I am strangely patriotic for an ex-hippy child of the 70s, it seems very strange/inappropriate to me to be singing nationalistic songs now. Actually, I was more afraid my neighbors would be singing hymns and I am not at all religious, so I would have found that more offensive. Of the three families that sponsored it, I am friendly with two, so I felt some obligation to go (although not an overwhelming one). And they had cake :-) which I don't allow myself in my house.
Take care,
Shelli
Posted by sweetmarie on September 15, 2001, at 4:12:39
In reply to Re: psycho babble open... - ShelliR » sweetmarie, posted by shelliR on September 14, 2001, at 20:39:21
> Hi Anna
>
> I am actually still having a really hard time. Instead of going into the hospital, I am trying for this weekend not to make myself work, and not to feel guilty. I have not found going into the hospital much comfort the last two times I went in, so if I can get through this at home, it will be better.
>
> Just came back Sunday from a beautiful vacation, mostly all positive, then Tuesday afternoon I crashed so it must be related to our national crisis, although it is not linked in my mind. I don't know why I have felt so suicidal this week. I can understand being upset, but suicidal seems strange., and absolutely nonconstructive. I'm hoping this feeling will pass. Meanwhile, I have started my old MAOI (nardil) with wellbutrin. I've done wellbutrin for a few weeks now, with no antidepressant effects, but it has energized me. Hopefully restarting nardil after being off it for so long will help. You are on remeron, right? Have you experienced weight gain? I possibly might try that if the nardil doesn't work for me; my pdoc thinks wellbutrin with remeron might be a good combo and that wellbutrin would balance out a weight gain. I think I'd like to change from opiates from oxycontin to buprenorphine because the oxy is losing effect for me. So there are still a lot of things to try; I'm just scared about letting people down workwise and messing up my business.
>
> This weekend I'll try to spend some time in my garden; It is cool enough to move plants around a bit and I'll try to catch some sales at plant shops if I'm not too late. Tonight I went to a candle-lighting vigil in my neighborhood and although I am strangely patriotic for an ex-hippy child of the 70s, it seems very strange/inappropriate to me to be singing nationalistic songs now. Actually, I was more afraid my neighbors would be singing hymns and I am not at all religious, so I would have found that more offensive. Of the three families that sponsored it, I am friendly with two, so I felt some obligation to go (although not an overwhelming one). And they had cake :-) which I don't allow myself in my house.
>
> Take care,
>
> Shelli
Hi againGood to hear from you, but sorry to hear you are having a hard time.
I think that this whole thing (the attacks) raises so many issues, that it`s not hard to see why people will be deeply affected, even if they are not conciously thinking about it.
Obviously (and mainly) there`s the horror of the enormity of the destruction, and the sorrow for those directly involved (those killed/injured, their friends, family etc. Also, those still waiting to hear, those who were in the cities at the time etc.). This alone is really hard to deal with, as it brings up all kinds of feelings - guilt, helplessness, pain at having witnessed death (which we did when we saw the planes hit the Trade buildings, and then when we saw the buildings collapse). I don`t think that any of us has ever witnessed death on such a scale, and even if you were not actually thinking `God, all these people are dying`, you `knew` somewhere in your subconcious. So, that alone is `enough`.
But then there`s the other stuff. We have been confronted by the fact that human beings are actually capable of such terrible things. When bad things happen on a smaller scale (murders, violence, rapes etc. - or if you live over here, the terrorist attacks carried out by the Provisional IRA), we are shaken and shocked, and wonder at the mindsets of those perpetrating the acts. But this ??? It`s just too big to comprehend. What does it say about people? What does it say to us about hatred? It`s very alarming just how far some people (the minority)will go, and what little regard these people have for human life. That in itself is very distressing.
Then there`s the question of `what next?`. What kind of precedent has been set by this? Will there be more attacks? More lives lost? There is a lot of fear and uncertainty going on as a result of this, and fear and uncertainty is a recipe for depression even in the `healthiest` of people.
There will be a response to this in terms of retaliation of some kind. Whilst this is totally necessary, it will mean further violence and more lives lost. `Revenge` is needed, but it is not a prospect that I am looking forward to. And where will it lead? Mr Bush is talking about war (quite rightly), but who wants war? It`s a scary and unpleasant prospect, whether necessary or not. I grew up during the 70s and 80s, when nuclear war was the big `bogie`. People of my age group still talk about their fear during this time (the Cold War, arms stockpiling, cruise missiles, Pershing etc.). I used to have nightmares about it on a regular basis, and we all knew that another `world war` would involve nuclear weapons. Nuclear weapons are serious shit, and I think that most of us thought we`d `laid the spectre`. This is now a real possibility again. Another horrible thought.
Then there`s the other backlash - hatred and hostility towards those of the Islam religion, people from the Middle East etc. These events have brought out really violent hatred of these people. Racism has reared it`s ugly head; I think that SOME people see the people of this religion/people from the Middle East as figures of hate. It`s already happening in this country. The attacks were carried out by a fanatical fundamentalist terrorist organisation - NOT `people from the Middle East/Muslims in general`. But these people - by association - will suffer. I was talking to my sister last night - she`s in West Virginia - and she told me that a couple of Muslims had been shot in the next town to her since the attacks. It`s awful.
And, as you said, there will inevitably be a lot of patriotism and nationalistic feeling going on. I am NOT saying that this is a bad thing, but it is if it`s taken to the extreme. Like you, I feel distinctly uneasy at flag-waving, and anthem singing. Again, I am NOT saying that this is bad - what I am saying is that it does make some of us feel very uneasy. Over here we still have an amount of `Brittania rules the waves`, which surfaces at times when we are threatened (e.g. the Falklands War). I dunno ... maybe I should be more patriotic than I am, but to me it`s always tinged with racial pride, which I can`t deal with very well. I suppose that it brings certain racist factions to the surface, which is not very savoury at all.
I seem to have written an essay ... I just wanted to outline what I thought the implications of this might be. Anyone reading this who thinks that I am dismissing the severity of the situation, or dismissing US patriotism - I am not. At all. I`m just worried about some sections of any community who take this kind of thing too far.
I hope that I haven`t offended anyone - I haven`t meant to. This is a horrible time, and punishment MUST be carried out. All I`m saying is that there is plenty for us to be distressed about, and we need to know that it`s allright to feel awful. A non-depressed person`s depression and shock over these events, is a depressed person`s despair and panic. This isn`t to undermine anyone`s feelings - just being realistic about how it could effect those of us already battling depression. Those of us badly effected could so easily feel that we have `relapsed`, but we haven`t. We are reacting to the situation, as everyone is.
I`m really scared that I have offended loads of people. I`m not a horrible person, and my thoughts are constantly with the people of America. I can`t imagine how it must feel, and can only guess at the kind of despair you all are feeling. It`s hit me very hard (for the reasons I have outlined above), so goodness knows how it feels to be living in a country that has been targeted in such a way.
Once again, my thoughts are with you all. Wish I could do more.
Shelli - don`t be panicked. It`ll take us all awhile to get over this. You aren`t going mad, or spiralling into another hideous episode - just feeling shitty about what`s happened. You may not even be thinking about stuff, but it`s `there` like a big black cloud, filled with pain and fear. I have to keep reminding myself that it`s not a relapse, and mostly I don`t believe it, but is`s not. Time will ease this pain. And even the most effective meds can`t shield you from tragic events. Meds bring us up to the `level`, and therefore knocks of this kind will depress us, scare us (that we are so depressed again), and worsen the depression. Does this make sense? My meds were *beginning* to have some effect, but now ... however, this doesn`t mean that they weren`t working at all, and it doesn`t mean that they will not continue to work. Recovery is a `fluid` thing - it doesn`t happen all at once (sadly), and there will be many pitfalls. Don`t give up though - you are still climbing, and these events will strengthen you in the end (although it sure doesn`t feel like that right now).
Join me in `hanging in`,
Anna.p.s. Remeron can be an appetite stimulant. It hasn`t made me any hungrier, though, and I`ve even managed to lose a stone and a half whilst I`ve been on it - I put on 4 stone when I was on Nardil. So, I`ve still got 2 and a half stone to go. Side-effects don`t happen to everyone, and the good thing about meds that don`t actually put weight on just by taking them, i.e. appetite stimulants, is that you can control weight gain by will-power (easier said than done, but you know what I mean).
Posted by Elizabeth on September 15, 2001, at 13:39:41
In reply to Re: I'm terribly saddened. » Elizabeth, posted by Noa on September 14, 2001, at 17:16:55
> E-
> Have you heard anything yet?Hi Noa.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20010909/msgs/11129.html
(Big thread, isn't it?)
-e
Posted by shelliR on September 15, 2001, at 22:13:02
In reply to Re: Some Implications (long) » shelliR, posted by sweetmarie on September 15, 2001, at 4:12:39
> in general`. But these people - by association - will suffer. I was talking to my sister last night - she`s in West Virginia - and she told me that a couple of Muslims had been shot in the next town to her since the attacks. It`s awful.
>
> And, as you said, there will inevitably be a lot of patriotism and nationalistic feeling going on. I am NOT saying that this is a bad thing, but it is if it`s taken to the extreme. Like you, I feel distinctly uneasy at flag-waving, and anthem singing. Again, I am NOT saying that this is bad - what I am saying is that it does make some of us feel very uneasy. Over here we still have an amount of `Brittania rules the waves`, which surfaces at times when we are threatened (e.g. the Falklands War). I dunno ... maybe I should be more patriotic than I am, but to me it`s always tinged with racial pride, which I can`t deal with very well. I suppose that it brings certain racist factions to the surface, which is not very savoury at all.
>
> I seem to have written an essay ..Yes, and a very very good one. I don't think people will be offended and besides it was in response to my feelings about the flags. BTW, I always have a few little American flags in my garden--I grew up putting them out on holidays, before they became a symbol of the conservative right. I think America's short history is flawed (slavery, civil rights, Vietnam, etc. ) but the intent of starting a new democracy based on freedom of religion was a noble one. And even when we do lose sight of those goals, we seem always to return in that positive direction, although a bit slowly for me and my more liberal family and friends.
.
> I`m really scared that I have offended loads of people. I`m not a horrible person, and my thoughts are constantly with the people of America. I can`t imagine how it must feel, and can only guess at the kind of despair you all are feeling. It`s hit me very hard (for the reasons I have outlined above), so goodness knows how it feels to be living in a country that has been targeted in such a way.
You're a very sensitive, warm person.
> Once again, my thoughts are with you all. Wish I could do more.
> Shelli - don`t be panicked. It`ll take us all awhile to get over this. You aren`t going mad, or spiralling into another hideous episode - just feeling shitty about what`s happened. You may not even be thinking about stuff, but it`s `there` like a big black cloud, filled with pain and fear. I have to keep reminding myself that it`s not a relapse, and mostly I don`t believe it, but is`s not. Time will ease this pain. And even the most effective meds can`t shield you from tragic events. Meds bring us up to the `level`, and therefore knocks of this kind will depress us, scare us (that we are so depressed again), and worsen the depression. Does this make sense? My meds were *beginning* to have some effect, but now ... however, this doesn`t mean that they weren`t working at all, and it doesn`t mean that they will not continue to work. Recovery is a `fluid` thing - it doesn`t happen all at once (sadly), and there will be many pitfalls. Don`t give up though - you are still climbing, and these events will strengthen you in the end (although it sure doesn`t feel like that right now).
> Join me in `hanging in`,Thanks, today was a bit of a better day for me..
> p.s. Remeron can be an appetite stimulant. It hasn`t made me any hungrier, though, and I`ve even managed to lose a stone and a half whilst I`ve been on it - I put on 4 stone when I was on Nardil. So, I`ve still got 2 and a half stone to go. Side-effects don`t happen to everyone, and the good thing about meds that don`t actually put weight on just by taking them, i.e. appetite stimulants, is that you can control weight gain by will-power (easier said than done, but you know what I mean).
uh, I can't recall how many pounds to a stone! I'll have to look that one up. Search: pound, stone. I love the internet!
By the way, what is your sister doing in West Virginia? It is not very far from me, a couple of hours. It's a very beautiful, but very poor state. I haven't seen much of it, but there's a place "Harper's Ferry" where Maryland (where I live), Virginia, and West Virginia come together, and there's good hiking, rafting and kyaking there.Take care,
Shelli
Posted by sweetmarie on September 16, 2001, at 4:59:42
In reply to Re: Some Implications (long) » sweetmarie, posted by shelliR on September 15, 2001, at 22:13:02
> Yes, and a very very good one.
Thanks.
I don't think people will be offended and besides it was in response to my feelings about the flags. BTW, I always have a few little American flags in my garden--I grew up putting them out on holidays, before they became a symbol of the conservative right. I think America's short history is flawed (slavery, civil rights, Vietnam, etc. ) but the intent of starting a new democracy based on freedom of religion was a noble one. And even when we do lose sight of those goals, we seem always to return in that positive direction, although a bit slowly for me and my more liberal family and friends.
Well, if you think that America`s history is flawed - check out this country. I wouldn`t know where to begin listing the terrible things we have been involved with. At least your country started off with a sound philosophy - we were feudal up until comparatively recently. Then there`s the various atrocities of the different monarchs, colonisation (the empire), social deprivation etc, etc. Frankly, I am NOT proud of my country - quite the reverse.
> > I`m really scared that I have offended loads of people. I`m not a horrible person, and my thoughts are constantly with the people of America. I can`t imagine how it must feel, and can only guess at the kind of despair you all are feeling. It`s hit me very hard (for the reasons I have outlined above), so goodness knows how it feels to be living in a country that has been targeted in such a way.
>
> You're a very sensitive, warm person.Thanks - and I`m glad that my remarks were not offensive. As I said, they weren`t intended that way.
>
even the most effective meds can`t shield you from tragic events. Meds bring us up to the `level`, and therefore knocks of this kind will depress us, scare us (that we are so depressed again), and worsen the depression. Does this make sense? My meds were *beginning* to have some effect, but now ... however, this doesn`t mean that they weren`t working at all, and it doesn`t mean that they will not continue to work. Recovery is a `fluid` thing - it doesn`t happen all at once (sadly), and there will be many pitfalls. Don`t give up though - you are still climbing, and these events will strengthen you in the end (although it sure doesn`t feel like that right now).- Do you think that I`m right? About the meds I mean. Everyone I`ve spoken to (admittedly only my sister and parents) think that I am, but what do you think? I`d really like to know.
> Thanks, today was a bit of a better day for me..
Good - I`m pleased to hear it.
For me, this past week has been getting progressively worse ... I won`t go into boring detail, but I`m still on my own (though my parents return later today). These events have been difficult to deal with alone - I`ve spoken to Rowan daily, but it`s not the same with her being on a different continent. There`s been no one actually *here*. I did go to my day centre on Thursday, which was disappointing. I was feeling really bad, but dragged myself there (it took me ages as my car kept stalling at traffic lights/`give way`s etc.). I got there, and all the members who were there were really quite ill - in the sort of `not really with reality` type way. I mean, these are people (like me) with mental illnesses, but the ones who were there seemed to be of the psychotic types. This isn`t a problem at all, but I couldn`t have a conversation with any of them, and thought `f***, I`m like this too`. I`m probably not explaining this very well, but it was really horrible, and I stayed 1/2 an hour, left, and cried all the way home (not a good idea when you`re driving). The fact that I`ve been alone, has partly been my own fault - I cold have sorted more stuff out to do, but ... well, I didn`t.
> uh, I can't recall how many pounds to a stone! I'll have to look that one up. Search: pound, stone. I love the internet!
There are 14 pounds to a stone (and 16 ounces to a pound, if you`re interested). I still haven`t got my head around the metric system.
> By the way, what is your sister doing in West Virginia? It is not very far from me, a couple of hours. It's a very beautiful, but very poor state. I haven't seen much of it, but there's a place "Harper's Ferry" where Maryland (where I live), Virginia, and West Virginia come together, and there's good hiking, rafting and kyaking there.
She is doing a term (I think you call them semesters) at a uni there - somewhere called Huntington. She is a psychiatric nurse, but has been doing a part-time philosophy degree in Cambridge (where she lives) for the past 2 years - not at THE Cambridge University, I hasten to add. She was offered an exchange with a student from this West Virginia University, and took it. She`s been there a month now, and is just getting used to it - she hated it at first. She says that the town is pretty `dead`, but the surrounding country is lovely. Trouble is, she doesn`t drive, so she`s been kind of stuck. She does say that it`s quite poor, but pretty. What is really pissing her off is that she can`t seem to walk down a road/street whatever without getting shouted at by blokes from cars. She asked me whether or not she should be giving them the `finger`, but I told her under NO circumstances. Can you suggest anything?
Anyway, let me know what you think - on this and the meds issue.
Lots of love,
Anna.
Posted by shelliR on September 16, 2001, at 19:17:06
In reply to Re: Some Implications (long) » shelliR, posted by sweetmarie on September 16, 2001, at 4:59:42
Hi Anna,
> - Do you think that I`m right? About the meds I mean. Everyone I`ve spoken to (admittedly only my sister and parents) think that I am, but what do you think? I`d really like to know.Yes, I definitely think you are right, that medication cannot completely shield you from real life pain. And in addition, you have had some major changes: getting out of the hospital, parents leaving, and now going to a program that doesn’t feel right for you. Changes definitely bring out vulnerabilities, and since ours is depression, that is what is going to be affected.
I think you will probably return to the baseline at which you left the hospital, but I don’t know if that is good enough. This is where I am not sure how direct to be, but you wanted an honest opinion., right? You’ve been on this combination a fairly long time now; there's a point, after about six weeks to eight weeks, when the benefit pretty much stays the same (at least doesn’t go up) and that is the time to evaluate whether these meds are right, or whether you should be adding or changing something . It is hard for me to understand how after all that time, they would discharge you with only a marginal benefit (at least that’s the impression I would get from you during your weekend posts). I hope that I have misunderstood and that you *were* feeling quite a bit better during your time in the hospital, in which case, yes, you *can* expect to get back up there. In any case you will see a doctor in October (right?) and medication changes can also be made outpatient , of course.
re: your program
I am used to advocating for myself my whole life and in the US if you advocate for yourself, you *do* get further (although if your health insurance is "managed care" here, there is often not much you can do.) So maybe this is not the right place for you and they should be looking around and finding something better suited. And maybe you need to fight for this. You should not be in a program with all psychotic patients—that would not be of much, if any benefit to you. Please try not to identify--you are not psychotic; you are depressed. (Maybe there are people like you, depressed, and you missed them among the more dramatic illnesses?) In any case, can you go back and talk to the directors, or to the person you are assigned to?re your sister
What is really pissing her off is that she can’t seem to walk down a road/street whatever without getting shouted at by blokes from cars.. She asked me whether or not she should be giving them the `finger`, but I told her under NO circumstancesYou are right about that.; she wouldn’t want it to escalate. I don't know what the guys are saying, obnoxious guy things? If so ,there is really no choice but to ignore. That’s strange especially if they are near a university. She might want to discuss it at the university to see how other girls handle it.
When I am feeling really depressed (like now) it is best to distract myself from the depression. I have a hard time even discussing it. That’s why I send you a card via e-mail. Let me know if you got it; you don’t have to write back until you're in the mood, but just click reply so I know it went to the right place.See now I am a little nervous that I said too much, and said things that may not be helpful to you. That’s why I want to send you fun things.
Take care,
Shelli
Posted by sweetmarie on September 19, 2001, at 6:35:33
In reply to Re: Some Implications (long) » sweetmarie, posted by shelliR on September 16, 2001, at 19:17:06
Hi again Shelli
> Yes, I definitely think you are right, that medication cannot completely shield you from real life pain. And in addition, you have had some major changes: getting out of the hospital, parents leaving, and now going to a program that doesn’t feel right for you. Changes definitely bring out vulnerabilities, and since ours is depression, that is what is going to be affected.
>
> I think you will probably return to the baseline at which you left the hospital, but I don’t know if that is good enough. This is where I am not sure how direct to be, but you wanted an honest opinion., right? You’ve been on this combination a fairly long time now; there's a point, after about six weeks to eight weeks, when the benefit pretty much stays the same (at least doesn’t go up) and that is the time to evaluate whether these meds are right, or whether you should be adding or changing something . It is hard for me to understand how after all that time, they would discharge you with only a marginal benefit (at least that’s the impression I would get from you during your weekend posts). I hope that I have misunderstood and that you *were* feeling quite a bit better during your time in the hospital, in which case, yes, you *can* expect to get back up there. In any case you will see a doctor in October (right?) and medication changes can also be made outpatient , of course.Thanks for the feedback re. meds (above). I HAD got a bit better (i.e. `3 out of 10` as opposed to `0 out of 10` (average)). I think that you are right about `change` - it`s certainly one of my triggers. Also uncertainty - and there`s lots of that in my life - not least the International situation, which still seems very volatile to say the least. I`m really frightened about it.
The thing that I`ve maybe never mentioned is that I suffer from `double depression`, which is Dysthymia (a kind of genetic/`built-in` low mood, which I`ve had since being a child. As this is part of my `make-up`, and I`ve been like it for nearly 35 years now, it`s harder to eradicate. It`s always been a `back-drop` to my life.) plus a severe major episode. The severe episode has been going on since 1995, and has been particularly bad for the past 3 years. I was forced to stop work 3 years ago, and have had very little contact with my friends (some I haven`t seen for over 6 years, despite them living well within travelling distance. I haven`t spoken to my `best friend` for about 2 and a half years). A very large part of the past 3 years has involved being in a state of something nearing catatonia - just lying on my bed, unable to move/speak/eat etc. During this prolonged period, I mostly alternated between desperately wishing myself dead (whilst not being brave enough to do anything about it), and praying to be better.
So, I have an awful lot to `wade through`, if you see what I mean. My thought patterns have always been of the `glass half empty` variety, and I have become even more negative as the years - and illness - have progressed. Continued lack of recovery, together with my self-imposed isolation, plus all the attendant thoughts of my life as a total failure, have meant that my depression is very well established. I.e. I define myself by my depression, as it`s really all that I`ve known. So, meds alone are battling very high odds, if you see what I mean.
I have had positive results three times in the past with medication. The very first I was on worked 100% from day one. I discontinued it after a year (on my GP`s advice), became very ill again, and went back on it. Second time, it took about 7 or 8 months to have any effect. The third time I had a positive effect was `94, when I started on Seroxat (Paroxetine). By the following summer, I was having more good days than bad. But, it took all that time to happen. I was actually on holiday in the States (stayed with a friend who was living in Boston for 2 weeks - best holiday of my life) when I decided to stop taking them. This was July, and by September I was so ill I had to have 5 months off work - and eventually was asked to leave altogether.
I think that in chronic cases like mine - especially when depression is a long-term underlying problem (Dysthymia), then meds will take longer to work. My professor told me that this was the case, and I suppose that I didn`t believe him. However, it does make sense when I think about it logically.
> re: your program
> I am used to advocating for myself my whole life and in the US if you advocate for yourself, you *do* get further (although if your health insurance is "managed care" here, there is often not much you can do.) So maybe this is not the right place for you and they should be looking around and finding something better suited. And maybe you need to fight for this. You should not be in a program with all psychotic patients—that would not be of much, if any benefit to you. Please try not to identify--you are not psychotic; you are depressed. (Maybe there are people like you, depressed, and you missed them among the more dramatic illnesses?) In any case, can you go back and talk to the directors, or to the person you are assigned to?I think that there probably are depressed people at this day centre - you`re right. And I`m NOT psychotic ... I think I will take your advice and talk to the staff about it. An added complication that I didn`t mention is that there is a bloke that goes there, who I had a kind of `thing` with the first time I was in hospital. This `blast from the past` was (and is) quite unsettling. >
> re your sister
> What is really pissing her off is that she can’t seem to walk down a road/street whatever without getting shouted at by blokes from cars.. She asked me whether or not she should be giving them the `finger`, but I told her under NO circumstances
>
> You are right about that.; she wouldn’t want it to escalate. I don't know what the guys are saying, obnoxious guy things? If so ,there is really no choice but to ignore. That’s strange especially if they are near a university. She might want to discuss it at the university to see how other girls handle it.Yes - `obnoxious guy things` pretty much covers it. And I think you`re right, however horrible it is (and it`s an awful thing to have to put up with), `retaliating` would be a grave mistake. I don`t know whether she has discussed it with the other girls at college. I`ll ask her. >
>
> When I am feeling really depressed (like now) it is best to distract myself from the depression. I have a hard time even discussing it. That’s why I send you a card via e-mail. Let me know if you got it; you don’t have to write back until you're in the mood, but just click reply so I know it went to the right place.I haven`t looked in my Yahoo account yet. Actually, the truth is that I`ve tried to get into it, and couldn`t work out how to (how stupid am I?). I`ll give it another go later today - I`m braving the day centre again in about 5 mins. But, thak you ever so much for sending me stuff - it`s really nice of you to think of me. >
> See now I am a little nervous that I said too much, and said things that may not be helpful to you.
Not at all - don`t worry about that. You have been really helpful, and I appreciate it very much. It`s good of you to take the time.
That’s why I want to send you fun things.
Hopefully I`ll discover how to get to them soon. I`ll have another try when I get back from the centre, and let you know.
>
>
I hope you are O.K. - let me know.Take care yourself,
love, Anna xx
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.