![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Willow on July 26, 2001, at 14:04:20
this is as good as it gets! I think we are the norm.
But I also think that I'm healthy, except for the fatigue. Looking from another perspective my hubby and a good friend think I'm ready for a nursing home, and they never agree on anything.
So maybe you are right AKC and I'm just in denial.
Willow
Posted by AKC on July 26, 2001, at 14:35:39
In reply to Strange bunch, I think not ..., posted by Willow on July 26, 2001, at 14:04:20
Now, now, now -- I meant strange bunch in the best of ways. This board has been so good to me in the short time I have been here. When I thought, so mistakenly, I did not belong, you all reached out and made me feel so much at home. We are a bunch of folks who have been hurting a long time who have found each other and are leaning on one another - thank god. I feel the same way about the women in my group therapy.
Let me digress for a moment. I have been in AA for close to three years now. And have never really fit in. And I think it has a lot to do with my mental illness (and with my childhood). Most of those there are just a bunch of drunks who are able to work those 12 steps (and rely on a pretty traditional concept of a higher power). It ain't been working for me.
Two years ago, when I was so suicidal, I had AA people tell me that I was in the wrong, that I wasn't working my program because I was taking "mood altering" drugs. Obviously, they did not have a clue. In How it Works it says "There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorder, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest." Everytime that is read at the beginning of a meeting, that is speaking of me.
Getting into group therapy with 6 other women, who suffer from severe mental illness, who come from abusive childhoods. Finding this board. These things are as critical for my recovery as finding topamax.
Willow, I don't think you need to be in a nursing home - do you need a therapist along with a pdoc? Probably. Do you need a supportive group in person as well as this group here? Probably. Are you in denial? I don't think so. You are where you are -- when you are ready to deal with whatever needs to be dealt with, you will do so.
I'm not sure of the point I am trying to make. I'm kinda rambling. I guess I am just trying to emphasize that we are all in this together - that this board is very important to me. Am I addicted to it? I don't think so - it is helping me, not harming me. When I think of addiction, I think of my alcoholism, and this is nothing like that. (Though, I was joking with a good friend of mine about what does it mean if I am posting "I am woman, hear me ROAR" posts?).
Anyway, I'll quit rambling, so this doesn't archive in a single day.
Your resident hounddog.
Posted by Greg on July 26, 2001, at 14:48:31
In reply to Re: Strange bunch, I think not ..., posted by AKC on July 26, 2001, at 14:35:39
Hounddog,
I've been in AA for thirteen years and been told the same thing, taking my meds means I'm not working my program. Screw that! How you work your your program is your business. If you are staying sober that's all that matters.
Sorry to but in but what you said kinda "twanged" my guitar string cause I've heard it so many times...
Whatever it takes...
Greg
> Now, now, now -- I meant strange bunch in the best of ways. This board has been so good to me in the short time I have been here. When I thought, so mistakenly, I did not belong, you all reached out and made me feel so much at home. We are a bunch of folks who have been hurting a long time who have found each other and are leaning on one another - thank god. I feel the same way about the women in my group therapy.
>
> Let me digress for a moment. I have been in AA for close to three years now. And have never really fit in. And I think it has a lot to do with my mental illness (and with my childhood). Most of those there are just a bunch of drunks who are able to work those 12 steps (and rely on a pretty traditional concept of a higher power). It ain't been working for me.
>
> Two years ago, when I was so suicidal, I had AA people tell me that I was in the wrong, that I wasn't working my program because I was taking "mood altering" drugs. Obviously, they did not have a clue. In How it Works it says "There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorder, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest." Everytime that is read at the beginning of a meeting, that is speaking of me.
>
> Getting into group therapy with 6 other women, who suffer from severe mental illness, who come from abusive childhoods. Finding this board. These things are as critical for my recovery as finding topamax.
>
> Willow, I don't think you need to be in a nursing home - do you need a therapist along with a pdoc? Probably. Do you need a supportive group in person as well as this group here? Probably. Are you in denial? I don't think so. You are where you are -- when you are ready to deal with whatever needs to be dealt with, you will do so.
>
> I'm not sure of the point I am trying to make. I'm kinda rambling. I guess I am just trying to emphasize that we are all in this together - that this board is very important to me. Am I addicted to it? I don't think so - it is helping me, not harming me. When I think of addiction, I think of my alcoholism, and this is nothing like that. (Though, I was joking with a good friend of mine about what does it mean if I am posting "I am woman, hear me ROAR" posts?).
>
> Anyway, I'll quit rambling, so this doesn't archive in a single day.
>
> Your resident hounddog.
Posted by AKC on July 26, 2001, at 15:40:31
In reply to Re: Strange bunch, I think not ... » AKC, posted by Greg on July 26, 2001, at 14:48:31
After the suicide attempt, none of those folks hardly talk to me -- I think some guilt feelings came upon them. And they realized they were a tad out of their league. Plus, as I have become older and wiser in AA, I have learned who to associate with. I pretty much avoid the Big Book thumpers, and stay with the cool folks - i.e., all the other crazy, mentally disturbed folks, taking cocktails each morning and night. :)
Your resident hounddog.
Posted by dreamer on July 26, 2001, at 15:56:35
In reply to Re: Strange bunch, I think not ..., posted by AKC on July 26, 2001, at 15:40:31
> After the suicide attempt, none of those folks hardly talk to me -- I think some guilt feelings came upon them. And they realized they were a tad out of their league. Plus, as I have become older and wiser in AA, I have learned who to associate with. I pretty much avoid the Big Book thumpers, and stay with the cool folks - i.e., all the other crazy, mentally disturbed folks, taking cocktails each morning and night. :)
>
> Your resident hounddog.Hello,
I had big drink problem -self medicate for underlying mental problems.
Fortunately my AD stopped the craving which is a mirical . I can reduced AD slowly and craving for alchohol returns. I didn't do the AA thing talking about drink would probably made me crave more.
Over 2 years without a sip!
When I'm old and useless I'll be a disgraceful drinker again-something to look forward to.
Posted by kid_A on July 26, 2001, at 20:08:33
In reply to Strange bunch, I think not ..., posted by Willow on July 26, 2001, at 14:04:20
Willow,
First, I think all of your choices should come from within, I think that only you know yourself better than anyone, you and you are so close.What is the norm, and what matters, A long while I wrote a large and sprawling poem about the distinct differences I saw between the haves and have nots, the 'sane' and the tormented... (sometime ill post it), Lately I realise what little it matters... Im so glad that you are a part of this board, Im so glad to have found this board... When you can say a few words and know that someone understands, it makes you sleep a little easier at night.
I hope that you wont take the advice thats been suggested perhaps, I see you steering clear of the rocky surf, and out to calm sea, I sense that within you.
All of us, maybe misfits, truly heros, truly wariors amoungst the dead, living our lives, though it is a struggle, we are part of that struggle, while no one else will ever know our feelings as true as we do.
-pax- as always.
Posted by Willow on July 26, 2001, at 21:17:22
In reply to Stranger than Paradise... » Willow, posted by kid_A on July 26, 2001, at 20:08:33
Kid A
Aaah, you do have a way with words!!
> I see you steering clear of the rocky surf, and out to calm sea, I sense that within you.
This is exactly my problem! My soul yearns for the surf, the currents, moving not still water, but because of a bad relationship when I was younger I've been scarred and now for a sense of well-being I need the calm.
Which brings me to wondering about therapy. I have to make choices, nobody can make them for me. So what is the point of thrashing this out in front of a psych?
I saw an interview with Stevie Nicks and she has been strong enough to move on in her relationships. Why do I cling to the old ones?? Gees, my best friend is from grade school, (though I love her dearly) my point is that it should be okay to forge forward with new ones. It just gets harder as we get older, sigh!
Thanks again for your kind words.
Willow
Posted by Willow on July 26, 2001, at 21:26:24
In reply to Strange bunch, I think not ..., posted by Willow on July 26, 2001, at 14:04:20
SONGBIRD BY FLEETWOOD MAC,
WRITTEN BY CHRISTINE MOTHEFor you, there'll be no more crying,
For you, the sun will be shining,
And I feel that when I'm with you,
It's alright, I know it's rightTo you, I'll give the world
to you, I'll never be cold
'Cause I feel that when I'm with you,
It's alright, I know it's right.And the songbirds are singing,
Like they know the score,
And I love you, I love you, I love you,
Like never before.And I wish you all the love in the world,
But most of all, I wish it from myself.And the songbirds keep singing,
Like they know the score,
And I love you, I love you, I love you,
Like never before, like never before.
Posted by AKC on July 26, 2001, at 21:37:35
In reply to Songbird for all of you ..., posted by Willow on July 26, 2001, at 21:26:24
Childhood memories come flooding in. I would listen to this song, again and again and again as a teenager. Thanks, Willow.
> SONGBIRD BY FLEETWOOD MAC,
> WRITTEN BY CHRISTINE MOTHE
>
> For you, there'll be no more crying,
> For you, the sun will be shining,
> And I feel that when I'm with you,
> It's alright, I know it's right
>
> To you, I'll give the world
> to you, I'll never be cold
> 'Cause I feel that when I'm with you,
> It's alright, I know it's right.
>
> And the songbirds are singing,
> Like they know the score,
> And I love you, I love you, I love you,
> Like never before.
>
> And I wish you all the love in the world,
> But most of all, I wish it from myself.
>
> And the songbirds keep singing,
> Like they know the score,
> And I love you, I love you, I love you,
> Like never before, like never before.
Posted by Willow on July 26, 2001, at 22:03:52
In reply to Re: Songbird for all of you ..., posted by AKC on July 26, 2001, at 21:37:35
> Childhood memories come flooding in.
I'm checking the napster site. I want to hear it ... and others. We must be about the same age? 18ish???
Young Willow
Posted by AKC on July 27, 2001, at 6:14:57
In reply to Re: CHILDHOOD..., posted by Willow on July 26, 2001, at 22:03:52
> > Childhood memories come flooding in.
>
> I'm checking the napster site. I want to hear it ... and others. We must be about the same age? 18ish???
>
> Young Willow
If I remember right, you are 32 - so I got a couple of years on you - I'm 36 - we are close in age!AKC
Posted by Marie1 on July 27, 2001, at 8:11:58
In reply to Re: Strange bunch, I think not ..., posted by AKC on July 26, 2001, at 14:35:39
AKC,
Mind sharing some of your thoughts on AA? My shrink has been nudging me to go because I've recently stopped drinking (~6 weeks or so). Most of my friends (and husband) are veritable fish, and he thinks I need to cultivate a peer group of non-drinkers. But I don't feel comfortable about going to AA. For one thing - will I have to say I'm an alcoholic? Jury's out on that. I don't think I'll fit in either. Why did you keep going?
I don't "crave" alcohol, but I do miss the social life. And I can't go out and not drink.> Let me digress for a moment. I have been in AA for close to three years now. And have never really fit in. And I think it has a lot to do with my mental illness (and with my childhood). Most of those there are just a bunch of drunks who are able to work those 12 steps (and rely on a pretty traditional concept of a higher power). It ain't been working for me.
I have a problem with the "higher power" thing too. How do you get around that?
> Two years ago, when I was so suicidal, I had AA people tell me that I was in the wrong, that I wasn't working my program because I was taking "mood altering" drugs. Obviously, they did not have a clue.My sister, who has attended NA faithfully for about 20 yrs. used to tell me to give up those mind altering drugs I take like PROZAC, until she saw me once in the midst of a major depression. You know- where your speech is abnormally slow, your IQ drops about 50 points, etc. She hasn't suggested I "get clean" since then!!
> I'm not sure of the point I am trying to make. I'm kinda rambling. I guess I am just trying to emphasize that we are all in this together - that this board is very important to me. Am I addicted to it? I don't think so - it is helping me, not harming me.
It's very clear to me why I post to and read this board - there's no one else in my life (except maybe my shrink) who really knows what it's like to have a mental illness. I know someone here can relate to anything that I post. Like Kid A said- it helps to sleep at night.
Marie
Posted by kid_A on July 27, 2001, at 8:58:19
In reply to Re: Stranger than Paradise... » kid_A, posted by Willow on July 26, 2001, at 21:17:22
> This is exactly my problem! My soul yearns for the surf, the currents, moving not still water, but because of a bad relationship when I was younger I've been scarred and now for a sense of well-being I need the calm.
This is -my- problem, I need calm, I need peace of mind, but I keep doing things that are crazy, and I keep on doing things maybe I shouldnt, making my life more complex than it should be at this moment... but there is no moloch here, heavy judger of men... our choices are the ones we have made within the best of our abilities, learn and progress, seek the calm that you need, then barrel ride the surf; maui, one brother amoungst two other named maui, lassoed the sun, a spider as it crawled quickly across the sky, far too fast for her mothers sisal rope to dry... he plucked 8 of his legs, leaving 8 remaining, and left a slow scuttling sun, edging across the horizon... but now the days are too long, cried his mother, cant you put his legs back on again, now that my sisal has dried... colour and contrast, its part of our lives...
> Which brings me to wondering about therapy. I have to make choices, nobody can make them for me. So what is the point of thrashing this out in front of a psych?
because perhaps they can say some words that trigger thoughts within you, that only you could have known... dont think of it as instruction, but as catalyst, for your own feelings, you control your life, there are no easy answers that can be read from a book, or learnt in a doctorate degree, otherwise we could all rely on computers to diagnose us... the answers allways come from within, we just need someone sometimes to dig them out...
>Why do I cling to the old ones?? Gees, my best friend is from grade school, (though I love her dearly) my point is that it should be okay to forge forward with new ones. It just gets harder as we get older, sigh!
I'm still good friends with my best friend from highschool (im 30 now), I dont go out of my way to make many 'close' friends, most people aren't worth it... make new friends, sometimes you'll find a great one, but love the close ones you have, sometimes one is all you need...
-pax- again.
Posted by AKC on July 27, 2001, at 13:30:06
In reply to Re: Strange bunch, I think not ... » AKC, posted by Marie1 on July 27, 2001, at 8:11:58
> AKC,
>
> Mind sharing some of your thoughts on AA?Don't mind at all. If you ever were to meet me in person, one of my major character defects is I don't know when to shut up!
But now on a serious note, why AA? It is simple for me, I am an alcoholic. Ever since I finally admitted that, I have no problem saying those words. But understand, it took 22 years to realize that.
My dad was an alcoholic. I vowed never to become one. But yet, I now believe I was one from the time I took my first drink. I took that drink at age 11. Why do I say I was one from that time? Because I can only think of a handful of times that I could only drink a couple of drinks. For me, one drink is not enough. If I have one, I am going to get drunk,it is that simple.
Other alcoholics stories are somewhat different. But ultimately the story is the same. We all become powerless over alcohol. It begins to control our lives. We can't socialize without it. We can't go through our lives without thinking about it.
I didn't drink daily like my father did -- but I thought about it daily -- I sweated until the next binge. And then add in my mental illness -- add in the suicidal depressions -- the alcohol began to give me the courage to act on those impulses. If I had continued to drink, there is not doubt I would have killed myself by now.
I went almost three years in AA without a drink. This latest depression, I did relapse. However, since that relapse, for whatever strange reason, the obsession to drink has finally been lifted. I don't know why, but for the first time since I took that first drink when I was 11 years old, I feel free.
But I still need AA -- the fellowship of AA is so important to me. After almost three years, the people there are my friends. There are jerks in AA as there are everywhere. But I have met some of the most wonderful, caring people I have ever met in AA. I feel lucky to have found AA. (Disclaimer -- each AA group has its own flavor -- try many groups -- one will feel like home -- it will become what is called your "home group").
Higher power stuff. I was not raised in a church or any formal religion. But as a young adult, I got very involved in a very conservative church. And was pretty severely mentally and emotionally abused. I'm pretty hung up on the God stuff. Right now I have just made a deal with myself that I am just not working that part of the program. And I am not going to let myself get mad about other people's beliefs. Most people in AA and Alanon are pretty good about keeping their statements generic (i.e., not Christian or Jewish or some other flavor) -- that makes it easier for me. And I just work on being part of the fellowship -- that is where I get my strength.
Are you an alcoholic? I have no idea. Your husband and your therapist, they can opine all they want. Only you can reach that decision. Most people in AA are of the belief that only you can make the decision on whether you want to get sober. If you are doing this for others, it usually won't stick. However, whether you are doing this for others or for yourself, it sure is a lot easier to do with others to help.
Try an open meeting. An open meeting is for anyone -- those with or without a drinking problem. That way you don't have to "identify" yourself as someone who wishes to quit drinking (the requirement for a closed meeting).
Therapy, group therapy, medication, AA and Alanon -- all of these are pieces of my recovery. Right now therapy is the focus - and will be for the near future. But AA and Alanon are huge, because without them, I would have no social outlet. Because bars and alcohol and that social life I can't do -- it would lead me down a path to certain death or insanity. That I know.
Probably more detail than you wanted.
AKC
Posted by sar on July 27, 2001, at 21:42:40
In reply to Re: Strange bunch, I think not ... » Marie1, posted by AKC on July 27, 2001, at 13:30:06
I've tried AA and simply cannot do it! like dreamer said, talking for an hour about alcohol makes me me like guzzling a bunch of it.
i thought it felt too much like church even without the "higher power"--just all the recitation, etc.
a friend of mine really loves AA tho, and she's 21 days sober! woohoo!
Where did Lisa Simpson go? It's been about 6 weeks since we made our no-drinking deal. i've failed daily and wonder how she's faring.
(Lisa, are ya out there?)
sar
Posted by Willow on July 27, 2001, at 22:37:17
In reply to Re: CHILDHOOD... » Willow, posted by AKC on July 27, 2001, at 6:14:57
Nope, 34! The 18ish was referring to wishful thinking, my humble attempt at a joke.
Willow
Posted by Willow on July 27, 2001, at 23:01:26
In reply to Re: Strange bunch, I think not ... » AKC, posted by Marie1 on July 27, 2001, at 8:11:58
*And I can't go out and not drink.
Why not? I've never really been a drinker, alcohol was for special occassions not every occassion when I was growing up. My in-laws and some casual friends really have a problem with this, but not me. And now with my stomach problems and medications that I'm on alcohol really isn't a good idea.
This past Christmas they were really insistent that I have a DRINK, even though I'm to drive home! I explained to them if they really wanted to be insistent, I would be insistent too, Christmas is a time for family and my family includes my children. A bunch of adults "drinking" (I mean one after another) is not what children want for Christmas family gatherings. Meanwhile going home I asked my children what they thought about the "Christmas celebration" at their grandparents and they replied boring.
So maybe being with a bunch of impair people when one is sober is boring. Not always, but I do usually spend time just relaxing enjoying other aspects of the enviornment.
>
> I have a problem with the "higher power" thing too. How do you get around that?I'm not religious. To me a "higher power" represents what humanity, society strives for and I believe it is attainable. For me this isn't a God like prescence, more of a Jesus persona. Someone who is caring and understanding, proctective of those in need. So for example, when you feel your own strength slipping you ask for assistance from a "higher power" which is the really the strength within yourself.
Just my opinions!
Willow
Posted by Willow on July 27, 2001, at 23:07:02
In reply to Re: Stranger than Paradise... » Willow, posted by kid_A on July 27, 2001, at 8:58:19
> > This is exactly my problem! My soul yearns for the surf, the currents, moving not still water, but because of a bad relationship when I was younger I've been scarred and now for a sense of well-being I need the calm.
>
> This is -my- problem, I need calm, I need peace of mind, but I keep doing things that are crazy, and I keep on doing things maybe I shouldnt, making my life more complex than it should be at this moment... but there is no moloch here, heavy judger of men... our choices are the ones we have made within the best of our abilities, learn and progress, seek the calm that you need, then barrel ride the surf; maui, one brother amoungst two other named maui, lassoed the sun, a spider as it crawled quickly across the sky, far too fast for her mothers sisal rope to dry... he plucked 8 of his legs, leaving 8 remaining, and left a slow scuttling sun, edging across the horizon... but now the days are too long, cried his mother, cant you put his legs back on again, now that my sisal has dried... colour and contrast, its part of our lives...
>
> > Which brings me to wondering about therapy. I have to make choices, nobody can make them for me. So what is the point of thrashing this out in front of a psych?
>
> because perhaps they can say some words that trigger thoughts within you, that only you could have known... dont think of it as instruction, but as catalyst, for your own feelings, you control your life, there are no easy answers that can be read from a book, or learnt in a doctorate degree, otherwise we could all rely on computers to diagnose us... the answers allways come from within, we just need someone sometimes to dig them out...
>
> >Why do I cling to the old ones?? Gees, my best friend is from grade school, (though I love her dearly) my point is that it should be okay to forge forward with new ones. It just gets harder as we get older, sigh!
>
> I'm still good friends with my best friend from highschool (im 30 now), I dont go out of my way to make many 'close' friends, most people aren't worth it... make new friends, sometimes you'll find a great one, but love the close ones you have, sometimes one is all you need...
>
> -pax- again.
Posted by AKC on July 28, 2001, at 8:18:43
In reply to Re: CHILDHOOD... » AKC, posted by Willow on July 27, 2001, at 22:37:17
> Nope, 34! The 18ish was referring to wishful thinking, my humble attempt at a joke.
>
> WillowI missed the 18ish joke -- I think that is because 18 is one year I don't want to revist -- left home (a good thing, but sad that it was the only choice I had), joined the army, only to self-destruct. Way back then, the lack of sleep caused me to enter a bad depression. Didn't recognize it for that, but I ended up confessing my "aberrant" sexuality 4 months into that, and they let me part ways. My aunt banned me from her life, because I moved into a house where some single men lived (I thought it would be much more a scandle if there had been single women!), I was working at McDonald's for minimum wage, I was alone. Then, shortly before my 19th birthday, what turned out to be in some ways the best thing and in some ways the worst thing happened -- I stumbled upon conservative, fundamentalistic Christianity. Now, for any of you whose beliefs are this way, I do not mean to judge your beliefs. But for me and my makeup (e.g., my sexuality), it was a very confusing and damaging mix that continued for over a decade and that has effects to this day -- effects the at are as strong as those of my dad's horrible abuse metted out on me as a child.
Wow -- all this because you were trying to be funny, Willow?
I am a tad sad today. Not depressed. The topamax keeps working on that. But my job is not going as I would want, and because the topamax is working, I am clear headed enough to continue to have all these insights, and one of my best friends shared some disturbing things about her officer manager's decision to leave employment (tied to a church thing) and so this morning I am just sad. And needing a shoulder to cry on. And my best friend is leaving for Minnesota to day. And another friend is already in Las Vegas. And this friend is at scuba lessons, and you know how it is --
Your resident hounddog.
(thanks for listening -- I may call again later.)
Posted by AKC on July 28, 2001, at 8:20:28
In reply to Re: Strange bunch, I think not ..., posted by Willow on July 27, 2001, at 23:01:26
Willow -- Well put, on both subjects.
> *And I can't go out and not drink.
>
> Why not? I've never really been a drinker, alcohol was for special occassions not every occassion when I was growing up. My in-laws and some casual friends really have a problem with this, but not me. And now with my stomach problems and medications that I'm on alcohol really isn't a good idea.
>
> This past Christmas they were really insistent that I have a DRINK, even though I'm to drive home! I explained to them if they really wanted to be insistent, I would be insistent too, Christmas is a time for family and my family includes my children. A bunch of adults "drinking" (I mean one after another) is not what children want for Christmas family gatherings. Meanwhile going home I asked my children what they thought about the "Christmas celebration" at their grandparents and they replied boring.
>
> So maybe being with a bunch of impair people when one is sober is boring. Not always, but I do usually spend time just relaxing enjoying other aspects of the enviornment.
>
> >
> > I have a problem with the "higher power" thing too. How do you get around that?
>
> I'm not religious. To me a "higher power" represents what humanity, society strives for and I believe it is attainable. For me this isn't a God like prescence, more of a Jesus persona. Someone who is caring and understanding, proctective of those in need. So for example, when you feel your own strength slipping you ask for assistance from a "higher power" which is the really the strength within yourself.
>
> Just my opinions!
>
> Willow
Posted by Marie1 on July 28, 2001, at 8:41:02
In reply to Re: Strange bunch, I think not ... » Marie1, posted by AKC on July 27, 2001, at 13:30:06
AKC,
Thanks. I appreciate your thoughtful reply. Much of what you said strikes a chord in me. I come from a long line of alcoholics. I've *enjoyed* drinking since the first time I got smashed at age 15. I tend to associate with other people who drink. I don't want to admit I'm an alcoholic (how does one shorten that word??), and I think it's probably the stigma attached that bothers me. I think most people claim to accept that "a" is a disease, but treat those suffering from it with disdain. My mother-in-law, who died from complications of "a", used to make me sick. I have seen her drink vodka from the bottle in the morning, then vomit on the carpet. I never had any respect for that woman...
I'm not exactly craving alcohol during this on-the-wagon 6 weeks, but have to admit, I am looking forward to my first relapse!! < g > I'm enjoying feeling good - physically, and mentally, for the most part (like you, my depression has always considerably worsened when I drink). The biggest problem is, "a" has always been such a big part of my life, it's hard to find things to do instead. (Let's face it, psycho babble can only take up so much of your free time! < g >) My husband is an "a", as are many of my friends, and they certainly haven't changed their social lives. My pdoc wants me to develop relationships with people who don't drink - hence the AA. I don't know, I feel so resistent. Like a kid who is forced into going to church, I'm afraid I'll go with the wrong attitude. Again, thanks for your views on the whole thing; I'll definately keep tham in mind as I wrestle with this.Marie
> AKC,
> >
> > Mind sharing some of your thoughts on AA?
>
> Don't mind at all. If you ever were to meet me in person, one of my major character defects is I don't know when to shut up!
>
> But now on a serious note, why AA? It is simple for me, I am an alcoholic. Ever since I finally admitted that, I have no problem saying those words. But understand, it took 22 years to realize that.
>
> My dad was an alcoholic. I vowed never to become one. But yet, I now believe I was one from the time I took my first drink. I took that drink at age 11. Why do I say I was one from that time? Because I can only think of a handful of times that I could only drink a couple of drinks. For me, one drink is not enough. If I have one, I am going to get drunk,it is that simple.
>
> Other alcoholics stories are somewhat different. But ultimately the story is the same. We all become powerless over alcohol. It begins to control our lives. We can't socialize without it. We can't go through our lives without thinking about it.
>
> I didn't drink daily like my father did -- but I thought about it daily -- I sweated until the next binge. And then add in my mental illness -- add in the suicidal depressions -- the alcohol began to give me the courage to act on those impulses. If I had continued to drink, there is not doubt I would have killed myself by now.
>
> I went almost three years in AA without a drink. This latest depression, I did relapse. However, since that relapse, for whatever strange reason, the obsession to drink has finally been lifted. I don't know why, but for the first time since I took that first drink when I was 11 years old, I feel free.
>
> But I still need AA -- the fellowship of AA is so important to me. After almost three years, the people there are my friends. There are jerks in AA as there are everywhere. But I have met some of the most wonderful, caring people I have ever met in AA. I feel lucky to have found AA. (Disclaimer -- each AA group has its own flavor -- try many groups -- one will feel like home -- it will become what is called your "home group").
>
> Higher power stuff. I was not raised in a church or any formal religion. But as a young adult, I got very involved in a very conservative church. And was pretty severely mentally and emotionally abused. I'm pretty hung up on the God stuff. Right now I have just made a deal with myself that I am just not working that part of the program. And I am not going to let myself get mad about other people's beliefs. Most people in AA and Alanon are pretty good about keeping their statements generic (i.e., not Christian or Jewish or some other flavor) -- that makes it easier for me. And I just work on being part of the fellowship -- that is where I get my strength.
>
> Are you an alcoholic? I have no idea. Your husband and your therapist, they can opine all they want. Only you can reach that decision. Most people in AA are of the belief that only you can make the decision on whether you want to get sober. If you are doing this for others, it usually won't stick. However, whether you are doing this for others or for yourself, it sure is a lot easier to do with others to help.
>
> Try an open meeting. An open meeting is for anyone -- those with or without a drinking problem. That way you don't have to "identify" yourself as someone who wishes to quit drinking (the requirement for a closed meeting).
>
> Therapy, group therapy, medication, AA and Alanon -- all of these are pieces of my recovery. Right now therapy is the focus - and will be for the near future. But AA and Alanon are huge, because without them, I would have no social outlet. Because bars and alcohol and that social life I can't do -- it would lead me down a path to certain death or insanity. That I know.
>
> Probably more detail than you wanted.
>
> AKC
Posted by Marie1 on July 28, 2001, at 9:07:29
In reply to Re: Strange bunch, I think not ..., posted by Willow on July 27, 2001, at 23:01:26
Willow,
Maybe the statement "and I can't go out and not drink" really defines the difference between someone who is an alcoholic and someone who is not. I really envy your ability to either take or leave it. I'm okay until I'm put in a situation where others are drinking, and then it's like a siren song to me. I enjoy the feeling alcohol gives me, until my depression kicks in or the next morning when I feel like shit. My pdoc says that alcoholism is often co-morbid with depression because at first, you feel a lift from the heaviness. But then it just comes back, stronger than ever.
I don't know if this makes any sense to you - it's kind of like explaining the nuances of depression to someone who hasn't had it. I'm glad your kids' Christmasses won't be about watching the adults in their lives make idiots of themselves. That certainly doesn't make for pleasant memories. Take care - hope you have a nice vacation!Marie
> *And I can't go out and not drink.
>
> Why not? I've never really been a drinker, alcohol was for special occassions not every occassion when I was growing up. My in-laws and some casual friends really have a problem with this, but not me. And now with my stomach problems and medications that I'm on alcohol really isn't a good idea.
>
> This past Christmas they were really insistent that I have a DRINK, even though I'm to drive home! I explained to them if they really wanted to be insistent, I would be insistent too, Christmas is a time for family and my family includes my children. A bunch of adults "drinking" (I mean one after another) is not what children want for Christmas family gatherings. Meanwhile going home I asked my children what they thought about the "Christmas celebration" at their grandparents and they replied boring.
>
> So maybe being with a bunch of impair people when one is sober is boring. Not always, but I do usually spend time just relaxing enjoying other aspects of the enviornment.
>
> >
> > I have a problem with the "higher power" thing too. How do you get around that?
>
> I'm not religious. To me a "higher power" represents what humanity, society strives for and I believe it is attainable. For me this isn't a God like prescence, more of a Jesus persona. Someone who is caring and understanding, proctective of those in need. So for example, when you feel your own strength slipping you ask for assistance from a "higher power" which is the really the strength within yourself.
>
> Just my opinions!
>
> Willow
Posted by Willow on July 28, 2001, at 12:34:57
In reply to Re: Strange bunch, I think not ... » AKC, posted by Marie1 on July 28, 2001, at 8:41:02
I don't know if you have noticed, but I'm big on lists. Try during a quiet time making a list of the things that gave you a "buzz" when you were a child, or before that first "binge."
My husband and father both smoke. I've made serious attempts at quitting, but with the substance in the house it becomes more of a challenge.
Change is always difficult but also so rewarding!
Hang in there ...
Willow
Posted by Willow on July 28, 2001, at 13:43:43
In reply to Re: CHILDHOOD..., posted by AKC on July 28, 2001, at 8:18:43
*but I ended up confessing my "aberrant" sexuality
I keep three english dictionaries around me when I'm on this board, great learning experience! I have a question for you. No need to answer, I'm just wondering outloud: Do you feel that your sexuality is deviant? In my opinion, not just about sexuality, everyone is different. Take foods! My children will say something is gross that a friend is eating. I remind them if it is something that they haven't tried how can they know. If it is something they don't care for they shouldn't take the enjoyment away from their friend, which is easily done with such a comment. (Plus we are social animals and want to fit in.)
> Wow -- all this because you were trying to be funny, Willow?
Oops, I realize that I couldn't make a living being a comedian.
>
> I am a tad sad today. Not depressed. The topamax keeps working on that. But my job is not going as I would want,Job satisfaction is a big part of our happiness. Strange how it can affect us so strongly!
> -- I may call again later.)
I'm not too far away usually!
Chin Up!
Willowps how are the babies? what caused the cysts?
Posted by AKC on July 28, 2001, at 16:19:28
In reply to I'm always here for you! » AKC, posted by Willow on July 28, 2001, at 13:43:43
Thanks, I am needing people to be here for me today.
I do not in anyway believe my sexuality is deviant -- now mind you, that took a long time to get too -- about the age of 30 and some pretty intense therapy.
The babies got a serious skin infection -- some weird result of a recent trip to the groomers. They are on antibiotics for up to two weeks (three times a day I'm popping pills down their throats). Luckily, neither my cat or I are at risk. The vet said I was right to be a worried Mom (sometimes I think I am worse with my pets than any mother is with her children!).
I just went to see Planet of the Apes -- pure escape. Just what the doctor ordered. And now for a nap.
Again, thanks for being here. That is what is so nice about this board.
Your resident puppy.
This is the end of the thread.
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