![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 33. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Cindy W on September 2, 2000, at 7:05:06
My Mother was just diagnosed tonight with stage 4 lung cancer with a metastasis to her spinal cord. Don't know yet if they will give her radiation, chemo, or no treatment. She is in a hospital 5-6 hours away. Will probably go see her this weekend. I've been putting it off because I'm afraid I'll total my car (like I did when my Dad had his quadruple bypass) and because I don't know what to say or do...talked to her on the phone, and she seems in denial and drugged (on a morphine drip). Don't know what to say to her or to my Father. We've always had a distance between us, emotionally, that I don't kow how to bridge. I feel so alone, lost, lonely, sorry, sad, ashamed. My depression and OCD are way out of control; see my pdoc in l8 days. Can't get a pet sitter and if I could, couldn't let them in my house (it's so cluttered and hard to walk through). Is there an instruction manual on life?--Cindy W
Posted by CarolAnn on September 2, 2000, at 12:23:23
In reply to real life instruction manual?, posted by Cindy W on September 2, 2000, at 7:05:06
Cindy, I don't really know what to say, I wish I knew how to offer you comfort. I'm sorry things are so difficult for you now. If it helps to 'talk' we're always here.
I don't want to give advice, but I have to say, no matter how much "distance" there has been between you and your mother, and no matter how she reacts, you will not go wrong by offering her words of love when you see her. She may not seem appreciative, she may even lash out negatively, but whatever happens, giving love is never the wrong thing to do.
I'm praying for your peace of mind and sending you loving thoughts. Bless you, CarolAnn
Posted by Cindy W on September 2, 2000, at 13:18:58
In reply to Re: real life instruction manual? » Cindy W, posted by CarolAnn on September 2, 2000, at 12:23:23
> Cindy, I don't really know what to say, I wish I knew how to offer you comfort. I'm sorry things are so difficult for you now. If it helps to 'talk' we're always here.
> I don't want to give advice, but I have to say, no matter how much "distance" there has been between you and your mother, and no matter how she reacts, you will not go wrong by offering her words of love when you see her. She may not seem appreciative, she may even lash out negatively, but whatever happens, giving love is never the wrong thing to do.
> I'm praying for your peace of mind and sending you loving thoughts. Bless you, CarolAnnCarolAnn, thanks!-Cindy W
Posted by Cass on September 2, 2000, at 16:22:21
In reply to Re: real life instruction manual?, posted by Cindy W on September 2, 2000, at 13:18:58
Cindy,
I am so sorry to hear about all this. I know we have similar backgrounds that were full of emotional abuse. My mother also developed cancer when I was an adult. I can tell you that despite the emotional distance, the vulnerable state your mother is in may decrease some of her defensiveness making things easier for you. Her condition may not make you close, but it may be easier to talk to her. I hope so. My mother and I did not resolve crucial issues, but she was as vulnerable as a child, and I think that for once she appreciated me a little bit. I think she was forced to have faith in me, something she had always refused to do. As for your pets, can you buy some of those feeders that drip water out little by little or dole out the food that way? I know how fears can pop up and overwhelm a person during stressful times, but remember that the odds are against your getting into another accident. I truly hope that somehow something good comes out of all of this. Remember to take good care of yourself, too. Don't forget about your own health.
Good luck, Cindy. Take care.
Cass
Posted by allisonm on September 2, 2000, at 21:39:29
In reply to real life instruction manual?, posted by Cindy W on September 2, 2000, at 7:05:06
Cindy,
I'm so sorry to hear about your mom and wish there was something else I could do or say that would be helpful but am afraid there isn't.
When I knew my mom was in her last years (alcoholism, breast cancer) I gave up trying to change her or teach her a lesson, or whatever it was I was doing before and made a concerted effort to enjoy whatever time we had left. Now if she was drinking, I would stay away because I knew it would just mess me up and I had a lot on my plate anyhow with the breakup of my marriage. But I did find this attitude helped. I am trying to do the same now with my dad.
I know you said you don't see your pdoc for another 18 days, but is there any way to get in to see him earlier? If you explained your situation, could he put you on a list in case he has a cancellation or maybe could he make a little time for you on the phone? Taking care of yourself is very important right now.
Do you have to drive? Could you fly or take a bus or train?
I can't pray anymore, but I will hold you in my thoughts.
Best wishes,
Allison
Posted by Cindy W on September 2, 2000, at 22:02:20
In reply to Re: real life instruction manual?, posted by Cass on September 2, 2000, at 16:22:21
> Cindy,
> I am so sorry to hear about all this. I know we have similar backgrounds that were full of emotional abuse. My mother also developed cancer when I was an adult. I can tell you that despite the emotional distance, the vulnerable state your mother is in may decrease some of her defensiveness making things easier for you. Her condition may not make you close, but it may be easier to talk to her. I hope so. My mother and I did not resolve crucial issues, but she was as vulnerable as a child, and I think that for once she appreciated me a little bit. I think she was forced to have faith in me, something she had always refused to do. As for your pets, can you buy some of those feeders that drip water out little by little or dole out the food that way? I know how fears can pop up and overwhelm a person during stressful times, but remember that the odds are against your getting into another accident. I truly hope that somehow something good comes out of all of this. Remember to take good care of yourself, too. Don't forget about your own health.
> Good luck, Cindy. Take care.
> Cass
Cass, thank you for your support! Your post means a lot to me, since I think we do have similar backgrounds full of emotional abuse. I'm still afraid to even tell my parents "I love you" except in writing; we never tell each other that verbally, on the phone or in person. That makes all this extra hard. --Cindy W
Posted by Cindy W on September 2, 2000, at 22:04:59
In reply to Re: real life instruction manual?, posted by allisonm on September 2, 2000, at 21:39:29
> Cindy,
>
> I'm so sorry to hear about your mom and wish there was something else I could do or say that would be helpful but am afraid there isn't.
>
> When I knew my mom was in her last years (alcoholism, breast cancer) I gave up trying to change her or teach her a lesson, or whatever it was I was doing before and made a concerted effort to enjoy whatever time we had left. Now if she was drinking, I would stay away because I knew it would just mess me up and I had a lot on my plate anyhow with the breakup of my marriage. But I did find this attitude helped. I am trying to do the same now with my dad.
>
> I know you said you don't see your pdoc for another 18 days, but is there any way to get in to see him earlier? If you explained your situation, could he put you on a list in case he has a cancellation or maybe could he make a little time for you on the phone? Taking care of yourself is very important right now.
>
> Do you have to drive? Could you fly or take a bus or train?
>
> I can't pray anymore, but I will hold you in my thoughts.
>
> Best wishes,
> Allison
Allison, will see if it's possible for me to see my pdoc sooner, on a cancellation (the office isn't open, though, until Tuesday). Will see if taking a train, bus, or plane is possible, to see my Mom. Talked with my family today; my Mom sounds out of it (on morphine), my Dad seems to have nothing much to say and is in denial, and my sister keeps reassuring me that everything's fine (also in denial). Anyway, thank you for your support! Just knowing that others care means a lot to me, since I live alone.--Cindy W
Posted by shar on September 3, 2000, at 1:16:51
In reply to Re: real life instruction manual? » allisonm, posted by Cindy W on September 2, 2000, at 22:04:59
Cindy,
It is so hard to try to deal with all the issues that come up when a parent is so ill. Not only the illness, but all the family interactions, and all the disruptions to your own life (not being cold, it's just a fact).It took me years to get over hating my mom. Somehow I got to the point that hating her was worse for me. I haven't forgotten the abuse and humiliation and thoughtless, uncaring acts. I somehow decided that I could focus on that if I wanted or I could focus more on the present. I have told her when what she says has hurt me, and at the same time, I have told her how much I appreciate the things I learned from her (how to be a survivor). I find it easier to set boundaries, and take charge of me when I'm with her. I don't feel I'm at her mercy.
If there is anything that you could say to your mom that you appreciated, no matter how small, and what a positive influence it had, that might be easier than trying to say "you are a great mom" or "I love you" if it isn't really true.
Good luck, I hope you can make this visit your own and not be too dragged down by your dad or sis, and do what you need to do with your mom so you can look back on it with contentment.
I also never expect to get anything back from my mom, like love or respect, or caring. That really takes the pressure off. So, I can say what I want to say and am not disappointed when she blows it off or whatever. The point is, I said it, and hope she took it in.
Since your mom is sick, I expect you need to be more restrained in what you say, but I encourage you to think hard about anything she did or taught you or modeled for you that has helped you in this life.
Shar
Posted by chdurie2 on September 3, 2000, at 23:02:55
In reply to real life instruction manual?, posted by Cindy W on September 2, 2000, at 7:05:26
> My Mother was just diagnosed tonight with stage 4 lung cancer with a metastasis to her spinal cord. Don't know yet if they will give her radiation, chemo, or no treatment. She is in a hospital 5-6 hours away. Will probably go see her this weekend. I've been putting it off because I'm afraid I'll total my car (like I did when my Dad had his quadruple bypass) and because I don't know what to say or do...talked to her on the phone, and she seems in denial and drugged (on a morphine drip). Don't know what to say to her or to my Father. We've always had a distance between us, emotionally, that I don't kow how to bridge. I feel so alone, lost, lonely, sorry, sad, ashamed. My depression and OCD are way out of control; see my pdoc in l8 days. Can't get a pet sitter and if I could, couldn't let them in my house (it's so cluttered and hard to walk through). Is there an instruction manual on life?--Cindy W
Cindy- you and i sound like we have a lot in common. can't see pdoc for 18 days? who is this guy? can't page this guy on emergency basis even to talk for a few minutes on phone? sorry this is happening at such a cruddy time - and that it's happening at all.
when my dad suddenly became ill, (two days after i lost my job,) and died a month later, (he was an alcoholic and died from his alcoholism,) i hadn't seen him in two years. he also lived six hours away by car. we had never gotten along - we were like oil and vinegar. when i told him how upset i was that he was so sick, that i loved him no matter what, he told me to stop being melodramatic. my two brothers and i fought a lot during that month we were with him in the hospital. but you know what? i'd give anything to have that month back again. it turned out to be the best time we ever had, at least from my point of view, and seeing him so out of it and deteriorating was better than not being able to see him at all. also, as he became progressively more unconscious, we communicated on a very primitive basis. the most precious time was when he opened his mouth and moved his tongue across his lips - he couldn't speak. i asked him if he wanted ice cream - his favorite food. he nodded slightly. i ran down to the cafeteria and got him a huge bowl of ice cream (weeks earlier the docs laughed at the prospect of his being able to eat ice cream.) i fed it to him just the way he fed me when i was little. when done, i asked if he wanted more. i got another huge bowl, and he ate it the same way. the med staff was stunned. when done, i asked if he wanted more, and he shook his head - no. over the next few days, i brought in huge quantities of his favorite flavors, and he ate it all. by then, the med staff started to try to feed him easy stuff and liquids, but he refused all. he would only eat my ice cream - and i also brought creamed spinach, another favorite, which he ate eagerly. by the fourth day, though, he was losing interest in the ice cream and spinach. i thought that meant he was ready to die. he died less than two days after his last "feeding." the docs had said he probably wouldn't live four days after he was admitted, but he hung in for a month. somehow, i sensed it was all over when he didn't want any more ice cream. i would give anything for that time again, and when he died, i grieved perhaps more, honestly, for the finality that we would never have a good relationship as much as for the real loss. also, after he died, when my brothers and i were going through his personal stuff, we found stuff we never expected - stuff that made him more human. and i deeply regret now that i didn't try to connect with him on his level while he was alive, rather than being angry that he couldn't connect with me on mine. hope this helps. no matter how awful they are, they're better alive than dead, and this may be your last time with your mom. use it well. caroline.
Posted by noa on September 4, 2000, at 12:52:29
In reply to Re: real life instruction manual?, posted by shar on September 3, 2000, at 1:16:51
Cindy, so sorry to hear this news.
Do you have a friend who can go with you, maybe even drive?
I think if you do go, don't focus so much on what you will say. Being there is a big thing in itself.
What do you need? Would more information help you? If so, you could focus on talking to the doctors, etc., and finding out what your mom needs. Maybe don't focus so much on what you have to give, but go to find out, to see what this is about, what is in store for your mother, and the family.
If no one is available to drive you, I agree about considering alternative transportation. If going is going to be so stressful to you, then don't, but I suspect that you will be stressed either way, and despite the awkward feelings toward your parents, it is probably better to go, lest you not get the opportunity before she is too ill for it to matter. I think the unfinishedness of not having gone would be difficult to deal with.
Hospice services often provide counseling to families around dealing with devastating illnesses, even when it is not clear that the patient is dying. Some of these services come in and out of a family's life as needed.
Posted by Cindy W on September 8, 2000, at 0:53:43
In reply to Re: real life instruction manual? » Cindy W, posted by chdurie2 on September 3, 2000, at 23:02:55
> > My Mother was just diagnosed tonight with stage 4 lung cancer with a metastasis to her spinal cord. Don't know yet if they will give her radiation, chemo, or no treatment. She is in a hospital 5-6 hours away. Will probably go see her this weekend. I've been putting it off because I'm afraid I'll total my car (like I did when my Dad had his quadruple bypass) and because I don't know what to say or do...talked to her on the phone, and she seems in denial and drugged (on a morphine drip). Don't know what to say to her or to my Father. We've always had a distance between us, emotionally, that I don't kow how to bridge. I feel so alone, lost, lonely, sorry, sad, ashamed. My depression and OCD are way out of control; see my pdoc in l8 days. Can't get a pet sitter and if I could, couldn't let them in my house (it's so cluttered and hard to walk through). Is there an instruction manual on life?--Cindy W
>
> Cindy- you and i sound like we have a lot in common. can't see pdoc for 18 days? who is this guy? can't page this guy on emergency basis even to talk for a few minutes on phone? sorry this is happening at such a cruddy time - and that it's happening at all.
> when my dad suddenly became ill, (two days after i lost my job,) and died a month later, (he was an alcoholic and died from his alcoholism,) i hadn't seen him in two years. he also lived six hours away by car. we had never gotten along - we were like oil and vinegar. when i told him how upset i was that he was so sick, that i loved him no matter what, he told me to stop being melodramatic. my two brothers and i fought a lot during that month we were with him in the hospital. but you know what? i'd give anything to have that month back again. it turned out to be the best time we ever had, at least from my point of view, and seeing him so out of it and deteriorating was better than not being able to see him at all. also, as he became progressively more unconscious, we communicated on a very primitive basis. the most precious time was when he opened his mouth and moved his tongue across his lips - he couldn't speak. i asked him if he wanted ice cream - his favorite food. he nodded slightly. i ran down to the cafeteria and got him a huge bowl of ice cream (weeks earlier the docs laughed at the prospect of his being able to eat ice cream.) i fed it to him just the way he fed me when i was little. when done, i asked if he wanted more. i got another huge bowl, and he ate it the same way. the med staff was stunned. when done, i asked if he wanted more, and he shook his head - no. over the next few days, i brought in huge quantities of his favorite flavors, and he ate it all. by then, the med staff started to try to feed him easy stuff and liquids, but he refused all. he would only eat my ice cream - and i also brought creamed spinach, another favorite, which he ate eagerly. by the fourth day, though, he was losing interest in the ice cream and spinach. i thought that meant he was ready to die. he died less than two days after his last "feeding." the docs had said he probably wouldn't live four days after he was admitted, but he hung in for a month. somehow, i sensed it was all over when he didn't want any more ice cream. i would give anything for that time again, and when he died, i grieved perhaps more, honestly, for the finality that we would never have a good relationship as much as for the real loss. also, after he died, when my brothers and i were going through his personal stuff, we found stuff we never expected - stuff that made him more human. and i deeply regret now that i didn't try to connect with him on his level while he was alive, rather than being angry that he couldn't connect with me on mine. hope this helps. no matter how awful they are, they're better alive than dead, and this may be your last time with your mom. use it well. caroline.Caroline, I just finally got into psychosocial babble (couldn't get it to load more than 9% since last weekend!).
Haven't been to see my Mom yet but am considering going in the morning...my mom and dad keep telling me not to visit; my sister (who hasn't spoken with me since last weekend) finally wrote me tonight and asked me not to visit, because they all want to have a positive attitude...and I choked and started to cry, on the phone, last Saturday, when my mom confirmed that she has lung cancer and two spinal cord metastases. Am thinking about just going anyway tomorrow.
Your story brought tears to my eyes! I'm so glad that you were able to spend time with your dad, and feed him the ice cream...I'll never forget your story!
My mom and I have had a rocky relationship, like you apparently had with your Dad. I've always been the "black sheep."
Tried to make another appointment with my pdoc, but the office person said she didn't know if there would be a cancellation (my next appointment is the 20th). I feel kind of hurt that they wouldn't get me in somehow...my depression, anxiety, and OCD have been maxed out...I have had trouble working, can't sleep, can hardly eat, and my house looks like a landfill. I feel I can't plan to do anything, since I'm still "waiting" to see my Mom. I can't tell how she's doing...I only get brief phone or email messages from my Dad and he won't let me talk to her.
Again, thank you for sharing your story! I'll be thinking about it a lot, during the time my Mom is sick!
Love, Cindy
Posted by chdurie2 on September 8, 2000, at 11:12:14
In reply to Re: real life instruction manual?, posted by Cindy W on September 8, 2000, at 0:53:43
> > > My Mother was just diagnosed tonight with stage 4 lung cancer with a metastasis to her spinal cord. Don't know yet if they will give her radiation, chemo, or no treatment. She is in a hospital 5-6 hours away. Will probably go see her this weekend. I've been putting it off because I'm afraid I'll total my car (like I did when my Dad had his quadruple bypass) and because I don't know what to say or do...talked to her on the phone, and she seems in denial and drugged (on a morphine drip). Don't know what to say to her or to my Father. We've always had a distance between us, emotionally, that I don't kow how to bridge. I feel so alone, lost, lonely, sorry, sad, ashamed. My depression and OCD are way out of control; see my pdoc in l8 days. Can't get a pet sitter and if I could, couldn't let them in my house (it's so cluttered and hard to walk through). Is there an instruction manual on life?--Cindy W
> >
> > Cindy- you and i sound like we have a lot in common. can't see pdoc for 18 days? who is this guy? can't page this guy on emergency basis even to talk for a few minutes on phone? sorry this is happening at such a cruddy time - and that it's happening at all.
> > when my dad suddenly became ill, (two days after i lost my job,) and died a month later, (he was an alcoholic and died from his alcoholism,) i hadn't seen him in two years. he also lived six hours away by car. we had never gotten along - we were like oil and vinegar. when i told him how upset i was that he was so sick, that i loved him no matter what, he told me to stop being melodramatic. my two brothers and i fought a lot during that month we were with him in the hospital. but you know what? i'd give anything to have that month back again. it turned out to be the best time we ever had, at least from my point of view, and seeing him so out of it and deteriorating was better than not being able to see him at all. also, as he became progressively more unconscious, we communicated on a very primitive basis. the most precious time was when he opened his mouth and moved his tongue across his lips - he couldn't speak. i asked him if he wanted ice cream - his favorite food. he nodded slightly. i ran down to the cafeteria and got him a huge bowl of ice cream (weeks earlier the docs laughed at the prospect of his being able to eat ice cream.) i fed it to him just the way he fed me when i was little. when done, i asked if he wanted more. i got another huge bowl, and he ate it the same way. the med staff was stunned. when done, i asked if he wanted more, and he shook his head - no. over the next few days, i brought in huge quantities of his favorite flavors, and he ate it all. by then, the med staff started to try to feed him easy stuff and liquids, but he refused all. he would only eat my ice cream - and i also brought creamed spinach, another favorite, which he ate eagerly. by the fourth day, though, he was losing interest in the ice cream and spinach. i thought that meant he was ready to die. he died less than two days after his last "feeding." the docs had said he probably wouldn't live four days after he was admitted, but he hung in for a month. somehow, i sensed it was all over when he didn't want any more ice cream. i would give anything for that time again, and when he died, i grieved perhaps more, honestly, for the finality that we would never have a good relationship as much as for the real loss. also, after he died, when my brothers and i were going through his personal stuff, we found stuff we never expected - stuff that made him more human. and i deeply regret now that i didn't try to connect with him on his level while he was alive, rather than being angry that he couldn't connect with me on mine. hope this helps. no matter how awful they are, they're better alive than dead, and this may be your last time with your mom. use it well. caroline.
>
> Caroline, I just finally got into psychosocial babble (couldn't get it to load more than 9% since last weekend!).
> Haven't been to see my Mom yet but am considering going in the morning...my mom and dad keep telling me not to visit; my sister (who hasn't spoken with me since last weekend) finally wrote me tonight and asked me not to visit, because they all want to have a positive attitude...and I choked and started to cry, on the phone, last Saturday, when my mom confirmed that she has lung cancer and two spinal cord metastases. Am thinking about just going anyway tomorrow.
> Your story brought tears to my eyes! I'm so glad that you were able to spend time with your dad, and feed him the ice cream...I'll never forget your story!
> My mom and I have had a rocky relationship, like you apparently had with your Dad. I've always been the "black sheep."
> Tried to make another appointment with my pdoc, but the office person said she didn't know if there would be a cancellation (my next appointment is the 20th). I feel kind of hurt that they wouldn't get me in somehow...my depression, anxiety, and OCD have been maxed out...I have had trouble working, can't sleep, can hardly eat, and my house looks like a landfill. I feel I can't plan to do anything, since I'm still "waiting" to see my Mom. I can't tell how she's doing...I only get brief phone or email messages from my Dad and he won't let me talk to her.
> Again, thank you for sharing your story! I'll be thinking about it a lot, during the time my Mom is sick!
> Love, CindyCindy--you asked for the real-life instruction manual, so let's see...on page 37 of mine it says, you should go see your mom asap. she's your mom-you're her daughter. don't let your family hook you into their shit - as they have. how dare they say you can't come. let them know you're there to see your mom, not them. while it would be nice if everyone could hang together, tell them you don't need it - they fired the first shot by trying to bar you entrance and saying they can't trust you to be civil. just tell them you will behave civilly and you expect them to do same. suggest that everyone (including you) leave their hatchets at the door. while you're there, avoid, avoid, avoid any opportunity for them to use you as target practice. if they throw a punch, just duck (easier said than done.) don't throw any back. but remind them that you have as much right to be there as they do. just cuz you're the black sheep doesn't mean you have to play the part. be nice and sweet and don't give them any chance to turn you into a sideshow, and don't make yourself into one either.
as for your shrink, maybe it's time to get a new one, one who's less "busy." i assume you told the office staff you have an unexpected imminent death in your family? Does the shrink know this? Would they tell him, please, if he doesn't know?
As for the landfill, i have one, too. when you get back, maybe we could be a "buddy team" to support each other in excavating and cleaning up.
good luck! i'll be thinking of you! hang in there! caroline
Posted by Cindy W on September 11, 2000, at 9:16:07
In reply to Re: real life instruction manual? » Cindy W, posted by chdurie2 on September 8, 2000, at 11:12:14
> > > > My Mother was just diagnosed tonight with stage 4 lung cancer with a metastasis to her spinal cord. Don't know yet if they will give her radiation, chemo, or no treatment. She is in a hospital 5-6 hours away. Will probably go see her this weekend. I've been putting it off because I'm afraid I'll total my car (like I did when my Dad had his quadruple bypass) and because I don't know what to say or do...talked to her on the phone, and she seems in denial and drugged (on a morphine drip). Don't know what to say to her or to my Father. We've always had a distance between us, emotionally, that I don't kow how to bridge. I feel so alone, lost, lonely, sorry, sad, ashamed. My depression and OCD are way out of control; see my pdoc in l8 days. Can't get a pet sitter and if I could, couldn't let them in my house (it's so cluttered and hard to walk through). Is there an instruction manual on life?--Cindy W
> > >
> > > Cindy- you and i sound like we have a lot in common. can't see pdoc for 18 days? who is this guy? can't page this guy on emergency basis even to talk for a few minutes on phone? sorry this is happening at such a cruddy time - and that it's happening at all.
> > > when my dad suddenly became ill, (two days after i lost my job,) and died a month later, (he was an alcoholic and died from his alcoholism,) i hadn't seen him in two years. he also lived six hours away by car. we had never gotten along - we were like oil and vinegar. when i told him how upset i was that he was so sick, that i loved him no matter what, he told me to stop being melodramatic. my two brothers and i fought a lot during that month we were with him in the hospital. but you know what? i'd give anything to have that month back again. it turned out to be the best time we ever had, at least from my point of view, and seeing him so out of it and deteriorating was better than not being able to see him at all. also, as he became progressively more unconscious, we communicated on a very primitive basis. the most precious time was when he opened his mouth and moved his tongue across his lips - he couldn't speak. i asked him if he wanted ice cream - his favorite food. he nodded slightly. i ran down to the cafeteria and got him a huge bowl of ice cream (weeks earlier the docs laughed at the prospect of his being able to eat ice cream.) i fed it to him just the way he fed me when i was little. when done, i asked if he wanted more. i got another huge bowl, and he ate it the same way. the med staff was stunned. when done, i asked if he wanted more, and he shook his head - no. over the next few days, i brought in huge quantities of his favorite flavors, and he ate it all. by then, the med staff started to try to feed him easy stuff and liquids, but he refused all. he would only eat my ice cream - and i also brought creamed spinach, another favorite, which he ate eagerly. by the fourth day, though, he was losing interest in the ice cream and spinach. i thought that meant he was ready to die. he died less than two days after his last "feeding." the docs had said he probably wouldn't live four days after he was admitted, but he hung in for a month. somehow, i sensed it was all over when he didn't want any more ice cream. i would give anything for that time again, and when he died, i grieved perhaps more, honestly, for the finality that we would never have a good relationship as much as for the real loss. also, after he died, when my brothers and i were going through his personal stuff, we found stuff we never expected - stuff that made him more human. and i deeply regret now that i didn't try to connect with him on his level while he was alive, rather than being angry that he couldn't connect with me on mine. hope this helps. no matter how awful they are, they're better alive than dead, and this may be your last time with your mom. use it well. caroline.
> >
> > Caroline, I just finally got into psychosocial babble (couldn't get it to load more than 9% since last weekend!).
> > Haven't been to see my Mom yet but am considering going in the morning...my mom and dad keep telling me not to visit; my sister (who hasn't spoken with me since last weekend) finally wrote me tonight and asked me not to visit, because they all want to have a positive attitude...and I choked and started to cry, on the phone, last Saturday, when my mom confirmed that she has lung cancer and two spinal cord metastases. Am thinking about just going anyway tomorrow.
> > Your story brought tears to my eyes! I'm so glad that you were able to spend time with your dad, and feed him the ice cream...I'll never forget your story!
> > My mom and I have had a rocky relationship, like you apparently had with your Dad. I've always been the "black sheep."
> > Tried to make another appointment with my pdoc, but the office person said she didn't know if there would be a cancellation (my next appointment is the 20th). I feel kind of hurt that they wouldn't get me in somehow...my depression, anxiety, and OCD have been maxed out...I have had trouble working, can't sleep, can hardly eat, and my house looks like a landfill. I feel I can't plan to do anything, since I'm still "waiting" to see my Mom. I can't tell how she's doing...I only get brief phone or email messages from my Dad and he won't let me talk to her.
> > Again, thank you for sharing your story! I'll be thinking about it a lot, during the time my Mom is sick!
> > Love, Cindy
>
> Cindy--you asked for the real-life instruction manual, so let's see...on page 37 of mine it says, you should go see your mom asap. she's your mom-you're her daughter. don't let your family hook you into their shit - as they have. how dare they say you can't come. let them know you're there to see your mom, not them. while it would be nice if everyone could hang together, tell them you don't need it - they fired the first shot by trying to bar you entrance and saying they can't trust you to be civil. just tell them you will behave civilly and you expect them to do same. suggest that everyone (including you) leave their hatchets at the door. while you're there, avoid, avoid, avoid any opportunity for them to use you as target practice. if they throw a punch, just duck (easier said than done.) don't throw any back. but remind them that you have as much right to be there as they do. just cuz you're the black sheep doesn't mean you have to play the part. be nice and sweet and don't give them any chance to turn you into a sideshow, and don't make yourself into one either.
> as for your shrink, maybe it's time to get a new one, one who's less "busy." i assume you told the office staff you have an unexpected imminent death in your family? Does the shrink know this? Would they tell him, please, if he doesn't know?
> As for the landfill, i have one, too. when you get back, maybe we could be a "buddy team" to support each other in excavating and cleaning up.
> good luck! i'll be thinking of you! hang in there! carolineCaroline, I very much appreciate your caring and support! Went to see my Mom this weekend (I just showed up and walked in the door). She looks MUCH worse than I could ever have imagined (lost 50 lbs, has not been eating or drinking for over a week). The pain medication is not working. Am going to try to call her oncologist and her primary MD today. She is deliberately being anoretic, for "control" over everybody and over her cancer (ate one cookie and one pecan and drank l/4 cup of apple juice, yesterday; ate a one inch piece of Kentucky Chicken SKIN and one teaspoon of coleslaw, the day before). At this rate, she is likely to die very soon. She can hardly walk (her spine is fractured from the cancer). My brother and his wife and my sister, her husband, and her two kids were also there, so I didn't get time alone with her...but as I left, I hugged her and told her "I love you" (first time I've ever told her in person...my family doesn't touch or communicate love verbally). Will go see her again next weekend. --Cindy W
(will also see if the pdoc's office has had any "cancellations" yet!)
Posted by allisonm on September 11, 2000, at 20:11:55
In reply to Re: real life instruction manual?, posted by Cindy W on September 11, 2000, at 9:16:07
Cindy,
The situation sounds very bad and I know how exhausting that can be, but it sounds as though you are doing all of the right things for yourself. I hope your doc has a cancellation.
You are in my thoughts.
Allison
Posted by Cindy W on September 11, 2000, at 23:53:00
In reply to Re: real life instruction manual? » Cindy W, posted by allisonm on September 11, 2000, at 20:11:55
> Cindy,
>
> The situation sounds very bad and I know how exhausting that can be, but it sounds as though you are doing all of the right things for yourself. I hope your doc has a cancellation.
>
> You are in my thoughts.
>
> AllisonAllison, they haven't had a cancellation yet...if I can't get in to see my pdoc until the 20th, I think maybe I should talk to him about getting a referral...he is wonderful, but so busy I can't get in to see him. Thank you for your kind words. I can't believe how draining it is, having a parent being seriously ill. In fact, this is the first time I've ever had anybody in my immediate family get and stay sick for this long (and so very seriously, gravely ill).--Cindy W.
(who is still really a child inside)
Posted by allisonm on September 12, 2000, at 23:45:34
In reply to Re: real life instruction manual?, posted by Cindy W on September 11, 2000, at 23:53:00
Cindy,
I have been in many hospitals with my mother in ICU, etc. I went through a breast cancer scare with her and she lost a breast, then more biopsies. I have done this mostly long-distance. I had to take a leave of absence for a month once because my mom was in ICU with liver failure in Florida and there were no other relatives so I had to make all of the decisions while my then-husband stayed in NY state.
These are just suggestions of things that helped me get through. I don't like to tell people what to do. Take and leave what you want: Slow your life down as much as possible. Jettison the inconsequential. Think slowly and deliberately. Try to stay in the present. Treat yourself kindly, meaning do little things for yourself...physical comforts, as my doctor would say. Pick or buy flowers for yourself. Sit quietly, do something you really would like to do no matter whether you have time or not. Go to bed early. Understand that whatever it is, it probably doesn't have to get done right this minute or even tomorrow (a big lesson for me). Don't let outside forces pressure you; do things in your own time when you feel up to it. Step back from others' reactions to what's happening (it sounds as though you already are doing this.) Have patience with yourself. Understand that you may get irritable for no reason. Think out and respond slowly and deliberately to things that are very or too stressful. Follow your heart and your gut.
Love,
allison
Posted by Cindy W on September 13, 2000, at 0:03:49
In reply to Re: real life instruction manual? » Cindy W, posted by allisonm on September 12, 2000, at 23:45:34
> Cindy,
>
> I have been in many hospitals with my mother in ICU, etc. I went through a breast cancer scare with her and she lost a breast, then more biopsies. I have done this mostly long-distance. I had to take a leave of absence for a month once because my mom was in ICU with liver failure in Florida and there were no other relatives so I had to make all of the decisions while my then-husband stayed in NY state.
>
> These are just suggestions of things that helped me get through. I don't like to tell people what to do. Take and leave what you want: Slow your life down as much as possible. Jettison the inconsequential. Think slowly and deliberately. Try to stay in the present. Treat yourself kindly, meaning do little things for yourself...physical comforts, as my doctor would say. Pick or buy flowers for yourself. Sit quietly, do something you really would like to do no matter whether you have time or not. Go to bed early. Understand that whatever it is, it probably doesn't have to get done right this minute or even tomorrow (a big lesson for me). Don't let outside forces pressure you; do things in your own time when you feel up to it. Step back from others' reactions to what's happening (it sounds as though you already are doing this.) Have patience with yourself. Understand that you may get irritable for no reason. Think out and respond slowly and deliberately to things that are very or too stressful. Follow your heart and your gut.
>
> Love,
> allison
Allison, I really appreciate your suggestions! Will ponder them and try them out. Love, Cindy
Posted by Cindy W on September 21, 2000, at 19:50:18
In reply to Re: real life instruction manual?, posted by Cindy W on September 13, 2000, at 0:03:49
> > Cindy,
> >
> > I have been in many hospitals with my mother in ICU, etc. I went through a breast cancer scare with her and she lost a breast, then more biopsies. I have done this mostly long-distance. I had to take a leave of absence for a month once because my mom was in ICU with liver failure in Florida and there were no other relatives so I had to make all of the decisions while my then-husband stayed in NY state.
> >
> > These are just suggestions of things that helped me get through. I don't like to tell people what to do. Take and leave what you want: Slow your life down as much as possible. Jettison the inconsequential. Think slowly and deliberately. Try to stay in the present. Treat yourself kindly, meaning do little things for yourself...physical comforts, as my doctor would say. Pick or buy flowers for yourself. Sit quietly, do something you really would like to do no matter whether you have time or not. Go to bed early. Understand that whatever it is, it probably doesn't have to get done right this minute or even tomorrow (a big lesson for me). Don't let outside forces pressure you; do things in your own time when you feel up to it. Step back from others' reactions to what's happening (it sounds as though you already are doing this.) Have patience with yourself. Understand that you may get irritable for no reason. Think out and respond slowly and deliberately to things that are very or too stressful. Follow your heart and your gut.
> >
> > Love,
> > allison
> Allison, I really appreciate your suggestions! Will ponder them and try them out. Love, CindyWell, just got back (500 mile round trip) from visiting with my Mom in ICU; sat there around the clock (except for sleeping a few hours in the lounge next to ICU). Whenever she seemed to need pain meds, I asked the nurses to give her some; whenever her toes were sticking out of the blanket, I covered them; whenever I could, I talked to her and stroked her forehead and cheeks and held her hand. Well, last night I returned home (6 hour drive) and as I arrived, the phone was ringing that she had died in ICU, right after my Father and sister visited with her. I feel very sad that seh is gone, but glad I got to spend time with her. I realize how little I really knew her and feel sad also for that. I do appreciate the tips you people gave me about how to deal with the situation; it gave me courage to just be there with her. Love, Cindy
Posted by Chris A. on September 21, 2000, at 22:21:45
In reply to Re: real life instruction manual?, posted by Cindy W on September 21, 2000, at 19:50:18
Dear Cindy -
Read your post and am crying and praying for you. I am so glad you were able to be with her. Treasure those precious momments.You are close in my thoughts and prayers.
May you be blessed and find peace,
Chris A.
Posted by chdurie2 on September 22, 2000, at 0:49:42
In reply to Re: real life instruction manual? Hugs! » Cindy W, posted by Chris A. on September 21, 2000, at 22:21:45
> Dear Cindy -
> Read your post and am crying and praying for you. I am so glad you were able to be with her. Treasure those precious momments.
>
> You are close in my thoughts and prayers.
>
> May you be blessed and find peace,
>
> Chris A.Cindy W.--I'm so sorry. I really felt a tug at my heart when you told us your mom had died really glad to know that you got to hold her hand and cover her toes. when my dad was in his last few days, the hospital staff told us they encourage 24/7 stays by family cuz terminal patients know their family is there even if they can't acknowledge it. you know that i know what you mean by the grief of never having got to know her. last week, i wrote you a long post, but then the computer ate it up, and then i've had my own stuff going on, and i haven't been able to access the site, but i've missed you - you have helped me a real lot, and i hope i've helped you. maybe, sooner or later, this will open up the way for some closeness with the rest of your family. my brothers are now civil to me, although that took years to come. and unfortunately, my mom and i are less close. but hopefully, out of all the sadness in your family, maybe you can start to talk to each other. i'm really sorry that your time with your mom was so short, but it was almost non-existent the way things were going.
On my front, my biopsy Aug. 29 turned up a tiny malignancy in my right breast, stage 1 cancer, and i went back into surgery to have it removed sept. 13. i'm going to have a big, ugly scar right up front, but no lymph node involvement, no radiation, and no chemo. and no stray cancer cells left behind, so no more surgery. there's some pain but not that much...enough that i can't work for a couple of weeks (i'm an antiques dealer, and i lift desks and such a lot.) i was really very lucky.
there's been a lot of other stuff going on, like shrink crisis, persistent-no sleep to point of zombie-land (zyprexa nixed that, thank God), and now i have 15 days to cram my ass off for the LSAT exam, oct. 7, which i have avoided for two years and really want to take and do well on.
i'm babbling, but if you want to write, my e-mail is chdurie2@aol.com.
maybe when things get back to "normal" with your family, you and i can suport each other in cleaning up our respective landfills.
cindy, i'm so sorry. you deserve better. hugs and more....caroline
Posted by Cindy W on September 22, 2000, at 9:24:24
In reply to Re: real life instruction manual? Hugs! » Cindy W, posted by Chris A. on September 21, 2000, at 22:21:45
> Dear Cindy -
> Read your post and am crying and praying for you. I am so glad you were able to be with her. Treasure those precious momments.
>
> You are close in my thoughts and prayers.
>
> May you be blessed and find peace,
>
> Chris A.Chris A., thank you for caring! Love, Cindy W
Posted by Cindy W on September 22, 2000, at 9:29:08
In reply to Re: real life instruction manual? Hugs! And more.., posted by chdurie2 on September 22, 2000, at 0:49:42
> > Dear Cindy -
> > Read your post and am crying and praying for you. I am so glad you were able to be with her. Treasure those precious momments.
> >
> > You are close in my thoughts and prayers.
> >
> > May you be blessed and find peace,
> >
> > Chris A.
>
> Cindy W.--I'm so sorry. I really felt a tug at my heart when you told us your mom had died really glad to know that you got to hold her hand and cover her toes. when my dad was in his last few days, the hospital staff told us they encourage 24/7 stays by family cuz terminal patients know their family is there even if they can't acknowledge it. you know that i know what you mean by the grief of never having got to know her. last week, i wrote you a long post, but then the computer ate it up, and then i've had my own stuff going on, and i haven't been able to access the site, but i've missed you - you have helped me a real lot, and i hope i've helped you. maybe, sooner or later, this will open up the way for some closeness with the rest of your family. my brothers are now civil to me, although that took years to come. and unfortunately, my mom and i are less close. but hopefully, out of all the sadness in your family, maybe you can start to talk to each other. i'm really sorry that your time with your mom was so short, but it was almost non-existent the way things were going.
> On my front, my biopsy Aug. 29 turned up a tiny malignancy in my right breast, stage 1 cancer, and i went back into surgery to have it removed sept. 13. i'm going to have a big, ugly scar right up front, but no lymph node involvement, no radiation, and no chemo. and no stray cancer cells left behind, so no more surgery. there's some pain but not that much...enough that i can't work for a couple of weeks (i'm an antiques dealer, and i lift desks and such a lot.) i was really very lucky.
> there's been a lot of other stuff going on, like shrink crisis, persistent-no sleep to point of zombie-land (zyprexa nixed that, thank God), and now i have 15 days to cram my ass off for the LSAT exam, oct. 7, which i have avoided for two years and really want to take and do well on.
> i'm babbling, but if you want to write, my e-mail is chdurie2@aol.com.
> maybe when things get back to "normal" with your family, you and i can suport each other in cleaning up our respective landfills.
> cindy, i'm so sorry. you deserve better. hugs and more....caroline
Caroline, I'm so glad they got your breast cancer at stage l! Hopefully, that will be the end of it. I have a friend whose cancer wasn't detected until it spread to her lymph nodes, and she has had months and months of chemo and still has to go through radiation, and doesn't know if she will be OK or not. Will start working on "our respective landfills" with you very soon! Don't know if losing Mom will bring my family closer or not. Hope you get a great score on the LSAT! Love and Hugs, Cindy W
Posted by chdurie2 on September 22, 2000, at 11:29:41
In reply to Re: real life instruction manual? Hugs! And more.. » chdurie2, posted by Cindy W on September 22, 2000, at 9:29:08
> > > Dear Cindy -
> > > Read your post and am crying and praying for you. I am so glad you were able to be with her. Treasure those precious momments.
> > >
> > > You are close in my thoughts and prayers.
> > >
> > > May you be blessed and find peace,
> > >
> > > Chris A.
> >
> > Cindy W.--I'm so sorry. I really felt a tug at my heart when you told us your mom had died really glad to know that you got to hold her hand and cover her toes. when my dad was in his last few days, the hospital staff told us they encourage 24/7 stays by family cuz terminal patients know their family is there even if they can't acknowledge it. you know that i know what you mean by the grief of never having got to know her. last week, i wrote you a long post, but then the computer ate it up, and then i've had my own stuff going on, and i haven't been able to access the site, but i've missed you - you have helped me a real lot, and i hope i've helped you. maybe, sooner or later, this will open up the way for some closeness with the rest of your family. my brothers are now civil to me, although that took years to come. and unfortunately, my mom and i are less close. but hopefully, out of all the sadness in your family, maybe you can start to talk to each other. i'm really sorry that your time with your mom was so short, but it was almost non-existent the way things were going.
> > On my front, my biopsy Aug. 29 turned up a tiny malignancy in my right breast, stage 1 cancer, and i went back into surgery to have it removed sept. 13. i'm going to have a big, ugly scar right up front, but no lymph node involvement, no radiation, and no chemo. and no stray cancer cells left behind, so no more surgery. there's some pain but not that much...enough that i can't work for a couple of weeks (i'm an antiques dealer, and i lift desks and such a lot.) i was really very lucky.
> > there's been a lot of other stuff going on, like shrink crisis, persistent-no sleep to point of zombie-land (zyprexa nixed that, thank God), and now i have 15 days to cram my ass off for the LSAT exam, oct. 7, which i have avoided for two years and really want to take and do well on.
> > i'm babbling, but if you want to write, my e-mail is chdurie2@aol.com.
> > maybe when things get back to "normal" with your family, you and i can suport each other in cleaning up our respective landfills.
> > cindy, i'm so sorry. you deserve better. hugs and more....caroline
> Caroline, I'm so glad they got your breast cancer at stage l! Hopefully, that will be the end of it. I have a friend whose cancer wasn't detected until it spread to her lymph nodes, and she has had months and months of chemo and still has to go through radiation, and doesn't know if she will be OK or not. Will start working on "our respective landfills" with you very soon! Don't know if losing Mom will bring my family closer or not. Hope you get a great score on the LSAT! Love and Hugs, Cindy WCindy- you sound so great! Are you really feeling as good as you sound?? i don't know how much grief you're feeling, but i think the important thing to remember is that if you are feeling intense grief, it's for what could have been as much as, if not more so, than for what was. what was, unfortunately, was not all that pretty, and although you can change the way you think about that, you can't change the facts. My family "peace" took a long, long time and there were many awful arguments along the way -- and with one brother, nothing ever would have happened if my sister-in-law, who also doesn't have much family, hadn't intervened very heavily. Still, there's not a lot of love except in the most generic sense. And I also did a lot of work on myself to be the kind of person my family might want to be with. All in all, nine years later, i can't say we're close or that we'll ever be, but i'm no longer the black sheep. and dad's death made us realize that we don't have a lot of family, so we need to appreciate the ones we have while we're still alive. that said, you can't pretend to love or even like a family member if they make you crazy. but it sounds like, no matter how much your family may not want to say it, they must have some feeling that you behaved well in your mom's tragic last hours and days. i'm just suggesting that you be open to opportunites, or even create them, as appropriate, to bury your own hatchet and suggest that they do the same. my first cousin is in stage 2 breast cancer (discovered before mine) and i tried calling her when i first heard, and she will not talk to me - she won't forgive me for stuff that happened 25 or more years ago. that bothers me, but at least i know i tried. see what i mean?
and yes, mutual landfill excavation support would be really great, cuz living in a landfill, affects me in more ways than the many i'm aware of. A clean house or apartment, along with the emotional housekeeping that goes with it, could change your whole life. I know it could change mine. I got the BPD books you suggested, and they were very helpful. When you're ready to think about undertaking landfill clean-up, buy a book called, "Organization from the Inside Out" by Julie Morganstern.it's the only book i know of, of its kind, that deals with the emotional underpinnings of having created such a landfill, and gives practical solutions to address both emotional and logistical needs.
you can also access morganstern's site from oprah.com (i read the book long before finding oprah.com) and she says that if you have a real landfill, take pictures, and if your situation challenges her enuf, she'll give you (free) one hour of her mega-buck time to develop a strategy to clean it up and organize it. she says she's always looking for real challenging situations. telling you about this makes me want to send her pics of mine after the LSAT. best thing is, she says that for really indigenous clutter freaks like me, total organization and de-cluttering may have to occur in stages; that in the best of all worlds, you can't expect someone like me to reform overnight.anyway, hope i'm not boring you or abusing the board. you just give so much to everyone on this board when you have so much of your own. you're great! and don't forget that! love, caroline
anyway-i hope i haven't abused the site.
Posted by allisonm on September 22, 2000, at 18:40:33
In reply to Re: real life instruction manual?, posted by Cindy W on September 21, 2000, at 19:50:18
Cindy,
I'm so sorry, but I'm so glad you got to spend that time with your mom.You are in my thoughts.
Love,
Allison
Posted by noa on September 24, 2000, at 15:14:00
In reply to Re: real life instruction manual?, posted by Cindy W on September 21, 2000, at 19:50:18
Cindy,
I am so sorry. I am glad you had the chance to spend some time with her, to say goodbye.
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