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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Annabelle Smith on January 17, 2011, at 16:31:48
I just feel really sad and chaotic now.
I don't know when this is ever going to end.
Posted by Annabelle Smith on January 17, 2011, at 17:48:20
In reply to I feel sad, posted by Annabelle Smith on January 17, 2011, at 16:31:48
It is just a constant chaos. There are these thoughts that come and go. One hour I feel suicidal thoughts, and a couple hours later, they are gone. When they are there, it is hard to remember what it felt like when they were gone; and when they are gone, it is hard to remember they were ever there: but there is a knowledge that they will be back. It is a like waves that overcome me.
Maybe part of it has to do with the intense fear of leaving my therapist in May or shortly thereafter. I know know know that I have more AGENCY than that- but agency is so hard for me to realize. I usually feel like a passive observer. I need to know the truth-- that is, if I NEED to stay longer than that, I can. But that is hard to believe.
I don't even know what I want. When I feel bad, I want it to stop; but when I feel fine, I feel like something is wrong because I am not feeling bad. Maybe I am afraid to change and get better. Maybe I am keeping myself in bondage.
But this therapeutic attachment is so strong-- I KNOW in my head that he is another person and does not carry a divine authority. But expereintially, to me, he is God and sacred. This is tearing me apart. I have regressed because of this too, I think. I have read a lot about that, and this seems to be somewhat common-- that people regress when they are in the presence of safety. That is why Heinz Kohut advised against using the method of empathic attunement with Borderlines because he thought that such empathy and compassion would break down their defenses and become overwhelming to them. He labelled them as "object-hungry" and wrote of the likelihood of these patients becoming "addicted to therapy" and stuck as he put it, in a perpetual state of "object-hunger dependency." Well, that is me. But I don't want my therapist to back away or withdraw at all. I don't think he will. I really trust him and think he is going to stick this out with me. Forget Kohut-- maybe it is time that heals.
But this doesn't help how I feel right now.
I am struggling so badly with eating and body issues. I am supposed to meet with a nutritionist in a couple weeks, but have to go to the dr. tomorrow morning first before I can do that. I always hate the question: so what is wrong that brings you in? What the f*ck? Do you have 4 hours, because even then, I can't articulate. For purposes here, it is a constant cycle of restricting and bingeing. I was thinking that I really need to lose 20 pounds over the next 4 months-- that is 5 pounds a month. It seems do-able but it would require extreme restriction or some kind of purging. I don't think a nutritionist's diet is going to help me lose that much weight, but I am going to give it a try anyway. I really just need help with the binges.
I feel confused and tired and so dependent upon my therapist. I feel so sad knowing that I don't have enough time. It is like a death sentence.
Posted by Annabelle Smith on January 17, 2011, at 20:50:57
In reply to Does it go away?, posted by Annabelle Smith on January 17, 2011, at 17:48:20
What must I do to be saved? To be saved from this invisible cancer that is eating me, from this insatiable darkness, from this haunting chaos.
I sometimes imagine the people in the gospel stories who desperately run up to Jesus, asking him what they must do to be saved. That's how I feel a lot. I want a Jesus to run to.
I need to know how to get out. How to be saved from this Hell.
I wonder about chaos and despair and "mental illness" and Borderline Personality Disorder. To feel trapped in this life-- in time, finitude, societal expectations, oppressive systems, and relational patterns-- to feel bored, overwhelmed, and tired-- that doesn't make one crazy. I often wonder what if these things are just part of our day and time. When I feel really desperate, I google stuff about suicide and sometimes just type in the words "Dear God." What comes up over and over again are people saying the same thing. They are tired and are without hope. They say they want out of life. That is how I feel.
I feel like I have nothing to live for. For a lot of people, this meaning comes from religion and God. For a little while-- when my Borderline symptoms were in their greatest remission-- I also found meaning and hope in God. It changed the way I lived and saw the world. There were still bad personal patterns, but I had a reason to keep going.
I have gone through seasons and have occupied many different religious perspectives-- I have gone from one extreme to the other and have been many places in between. But now, I just feel lost in chaos. I have lost all faith in God now and can adhere to no religious perspective. My perspective is back and forth, up and down: chaos. The closest thing to the sacred is my relationship with my therapist and the closest thing to God is him.
I know of a couple Christians who have told me they would suicide if there were no God because there would be no reason to live and no meaning for their lives. They aren't crazy; many people of faith feel this way-- millions of Americans. I don't know if I am crazy to be feeling suicidal. I don't think so. It's not something that medicine is going to help. What if there really is no meaning to be found, no ultimate hope.
I need to know what I must do to get out of this trap, to be saved from this chaos that is hell.
Posted by sigismund on January 17, 2011, at 21:28:01
In reply to what must I do to be saved?, posted by Annabelle Smith on January 17, 2011, at 20:50:57
Just because you have lost faith in God, why can you not adhere to any religious perspective?
I don't necessarily mean a Christian one.
Every time I read one of your posts I think of religion.
You seem to have lost the feeling of a foundation and need feel you need to be saved from the underlying chaos.
But the need for salvation may be, if not specifically Western, then more prominent there.
Posted by emmanuel98 on January 17, 2011, at 22:21:12
In reply to Does it go away?, posted by Annabelle Smith on January 17, 2011, at 17:48:20
20 pounds in four months is not an unreasonable goal with normal dieting -- that is not restricting excessively, not purging, but just eating a somewhat calorie restricted diet. You just need to reduce your input-output by 4700 calories per week, or about 650 a day. Cutting a few hundred calories from your eating and increasing your exercise by a few hundred calories (say by walking three or four miles a day) will drop five pounds in a month.
Posted by Annabelle Smith on January 18, 2011, at 0:00:54
In reply to Re: Does it go away?, posted by emmanuel98 on January 17, 2011, at 22:21:12
Thanks, Emmanuel. I like the way you break it down-- that does seem do-able. I dropped about 10 pounds last spring from losing my appetite in a bad depression. That was an accidental way to lost weight-- I was so emotionally drained that I never even thought about the weight...and as it started to come off, I didn't even notice. But that weight was lost over about 3 months by eating very little. It was like one day I turned around and thought, wow, look at that! But, I gained it back over the summer and fall.
But you are right. I hope the nutritionist can help give me a breakdown as you have done here.
Thanks.
Posted by Annabelle Smith on January 18, 2011, at 0:12:14
In reply to Re: what must I do to be saved?, posted by sigismund on January 17, 2011, at 21:28:01
Thanks, Sig, for your comments. Religion and God have definitely been an intertwined theme in all of my struggles over the past many years. There are all of these recurring themes of loss and grief and a need to find rest in a home, self, and God that all seem intertwined yet lost. And I long for these. I feel like I have to approach my sufferings holistically, and it is hard to tell and perhaps wrong to partition them as either psychological or spiritual or family-related/relational.
You are right that I have a very Western-leaning perspective. As I have searched, Western voices have typically been my travelling companions and conversationists. I think I am still attached in a deep way to the God and faith that I meaningfully experienced in pieces in the past, even when that God seems unreal.
My therapist has leanings towards Buddhism-- at least this is true insofar as he incorporates Buddhist mindfulness practices into psychotherapy. Maybe I need to open up more and let myself go in this direction too-- and I don't guess that would mean I have to renounce everything (or anything) I have found meaningful in the Western tradition: maybe when push comes to shove, they have a lot more in common on a deeper level anyway.
Thanks, Sig.
Posted by pegasus on January 18, 2011, at 12:18:20
In reply to what must I do to be saved?, posted by Annabelle Smith on January 17, 2011, at 20:50:57
Well, also there are millions of people in the world who do not believe in a creator God, and are not at all suicidal. They find meaning, and a way to feel centered amid the chaos, in other concepts. For example, many people find meaning in service to humanity. Some find meaning in trying to attain enlightenment, or in other types of personal growth. Many people believe in "God" more as the energy of the universe than as a specific, supreme sentient being.
I don't believe in God, per se, although I was raised in a strict Catholic home and have great respect for many religious leaders. I understand that sense of longing for God, or for the human connection and grounding that comes with participating in an organized religion. And . . . I personally find meaning in relationships, and personal growth, and forming my own community and grounding rituals around those. It is, as you say, incredibly helpful to be able to identify what makes life meaningful.
I think cultivating mindfulness is very helpful in this regard as well. It can help you find some grounding in your immediate experience. That can help you feel centered and grounded even when you can't be in the presence of your T, or feel grounded in a belief in God. For example, when chaos feels overwhelming, I find it helpful to check in with what I hear, what I see, what I smell, what I feel. It's small, but over time, with practice, I've found it to become more and more grounding. Truly.
- P
Posted by sigismund on January 18, 2011, at 15:17:28
In reply to Re: what must I do to be saved?, posted by pegasus on January 18, 2011, at 12:18:20
We went to Vietnam during Tet which I did not then understand as well as I do now.
Everywhere there were photocopied US$100 bills that had been burnt at shrines.
Eventually I realised that this was for the needs of the departed. You could make them a boat out of paper if you wanted and burn that and they would get the spiritual boat.
Anyway, what Tet seemed to be like was a Christmas New Year reunion with the live family but (and which was different) all of the dead family as well, and there was a whole practice about paying respects in a particular order.
I just thought you might be interested.
Annabelle, what you write about reminds me of how I felt when I was 20. It seemed entirely unsupportable. I thought (wrongly) that this society must have the scientific(?) equivalent of soul doctors. It was so intense. The other thing your posts bring to mind is the importance of love. The love for your therapist that (if I am not wrong) frightens you. If you can find a way to love? I mean, I'm sure you do. I wonder how you can more easily?
Posted by obsidian on January 20, 2011, at 17:38:59
In reply to Re: what must I do to be saved?, posted by sigismund on January 18, 2011, at 15:17:28
I don't think I could get along driving without them all the time, especially at night.
I hope u aren't missing anything sig.
Posted by obsidian on January 20, 2011, at 18:34:55
In reply to Re: what must I do to be saved?, posted by obsidian on January 20, 2011, at 17:38:59
This is the end of the thread.
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