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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by deerock on July 21, 2009, at 10:18:34
sorry for the multiple posts. im still trying to figure out if terminating is the best move for me, with my therapist.
the relationship is rocky and i spend most of our sessions resisting. this was not the case the first 6 months or so.
she will not reveal any personal information at all. she tells me that no other client knows more about her than i do. thats fine but it drives me crazy. how can i trust someone i know nothing about?
is there a way to set some concrete goals or make a plan to determine if this can work or not? i feel like im spinning my wheels. most of my friends are tired as hell of hearing about the therapist. they keep telling me enough already dee, just leave. and therapist says do what you want, but we have a relationship here...and i think its worth exploring whats going on.
Posted by antigua3 on July 21, 2009, at 12:04:18
In reply to to terminate or keep going, posted by deerock on July 21, 2009, at 10:18:34
Well, the fact that you're able to get so angry says something about your relationship, that you feel free enough to express it. From my experience only, I had a lot of negative transference with my pdoc for a long time. Once I realized why I so angry at him, for not giving me what I thought I wanted (OK, I did want it) and I could pinpoint where the anger was really coming from, things started to change. He said once that the negative transference was just the flip side of "positive" transference and transparent.
I still get angry at him at times, and really frustrated when he doesn't respond, but I don't care anymore. He "blank slates" me when I do this, forcing me to look inside myself to see what is really triggering the anger.
FWIW, I spent years resisting, until I could locate the source of my anger, and things have been pretty good ever since.
Unlike you, I don't want to know a thing about my pdoc so I can only imagine how frustrating it must be. Do you know why you want to know personal information? What purpose does it serve for you?
I'm sorry I'm not much help, but I do know how you feel. I've thought of leaving my pdoc a million times, but I've stayed and it has been worth it in the long run. But I don't advocate staying if you two can't really communicate.
antigua
Posted by deerock on July 21, 2009, at 12:28:04
In reply to Re: to terminate or keep going, posted by antigua3 on July 21, 2009, at 12:04:18
what did you learn was the source of your anger?
she keeps asking me why i want to know personal information. i want it to have power over her i guess. but i dont know.
your post was helpful. quite helpful.
Posted by antigua3 on July 21, 2009, at 13:25:28
In reply to Re: to terminate or keep going » antigua3, posted by deerock on July 21, 2009, at 12:28:04
I was angry at him because of what my father did to me. I wanted to hold someone accountable for all the things that happened to me as a child, but they're all dead, except for my mother and that's a whole different story.
Once I realized I was demanding accountability from my pdoc, I realized he was never going to give it to me because the feelings didn't belong on him. I had to come to a decision that he is just a person with faults of his own, and I can't hold him accountable for what happened to me. I can be angry at him if I think he's done something wrong, and I will verbalize it to him, but now everytime I get angry at him, I can trace it back to my father and it loses its power.
As you can tell, I need to work on being angry at my father, or at least that's what I keep getting told. I can't seem to be angry at him, but I'm working on it.
Tracing the anger back has helped me to let it go. It's really amazing for me.
antigua
Posted by deerock on July 21, 2009, at 13:41:52
In reply to Re: to terminate or keep going » deerock, posted by antigua3 on July 21, 2009, at 13:25:28
good work antigua!! very impressive. and painful im sure.
yeah. i have no doubt im on the verge of ripping my therapist to shreds because i think she is my mother. i just cant see past it quite yet. ill keep plugging and hopefully i wont get my *ss thrown out of there in the process.
Posted by antigua3 on July 21, 2009, at 15:37:41
In reply to Re: to terminate or keep going » antigua3, posted by deerock on July 21, 2009, at 13:41:52
I always worried about getting thrown out, too, but my pdoc promised from the beginning that he wouldn't abandon me and I chose to believe him, despite the fear.
I can't tell you how many times I started a session with "Are you going to throw me out now?" thinking I had finally crossed some imaginary line that would force him to do this, that I had finally said something vicious or horrible enough. He patiently replied that my thinking wasn't logical, based on the promise he had made.
What really changed my behavior, though, is some research into negative transference and how damaging it can be to the therapeutic relationship and how hard it is to treat. That scared me straight so to speak, and I could see what I had been doing since I first started seeing him.
good luck,
antigua
Posted by deerock on July 21, 2009, at 15:42:30
In reply to Re: to terminate or keep going » deerock, posted by antigua3 on July 21, 2009, at 15:37:41
this is exactly what is happening. im attacking her as a person. im reading about negative transference now.
this really makes me think this relationship cannot continue.
Posted by emilyp on July 21, 2009, at 17:38:24
In reply to to terminate or keep going, posted by deerock on July 21, 2009, at 10:18:34
Normally I would not say this but in light of all your posts, it sounds like your relationship with your therapist is really rocky and not particularly constructive. In addition, if your therapist is psychoanalytical and she is training to be a psychoanalyst, I am pretty sure you will never get information about her and her life. There are boundaries in all types of therapy but the boundaries are most strict in any type of analytical therapy. That boundary is an important part of the therapy.
In addition if your therapist has said that another type of therapy might be more appropriate, that may be a confirmation of what I am saying. You might be better if you try to identify some therapists that practice other types of therapy. There are real differences. And certain therapists are more willing to share personal information (although usually it takes time for that to happen, but longer term, such sharing information is possible).
Posted by deerock on July 21, 2009, at 18:04:53
In reply to Re: to terminate or keep going, posted by emilyp on July 21, 2009, at 17:38:24
Ya I really don't know. I just had a session with her. It went very well. I'm curious what exactly makes you feel that my posts are indicative of the need to terminate rather than push through.
She said another type of therapy may be helpful. I suppose that is different than saying that I should explore another type of therapy.
We just had a good session. I'm really confused by how drastically things can swing.
Posted by emilyp on July 21, 2009, at 19:15:49
In reply to Re: to terminate or keep going » emilyp, posted by deerock on July 21, 2009, at 18:04:53
To be honest, your most recent post about having feelings about hurting her made me concerned. I also think your concerns about wanting information about her but knowing her psychoanalytical bent could continue to be problematic.
I don't want to encourage you to leave her if you feel that you are making progress. But not every therapist is for every patient. I had to leave the first therapist I went to because he was so focused on getting me into family therapy when I knew my parents and siblings would never, ever go into therapy. It was not the appropriate solution. The next therapist I saw had a much better handle on the situation and worked with what he could - he did not force a solution that was not reasonable.
Posted by deerock on July 21, 2009, at 19:40:28
In reply to Re: to terminate or keep going Â, posted by emilyp on July 21, 2009, at 19:15:49
that is what i figured. i have had this issue before with another therapist. she told me that she was pretty clear that the worst i would ever do to her was call her some names and walk out the door.
my current therapist thinks that i think i am capable of doing something that is far more ugly than what i rally am capable of.
im not sure how she knows that. hell if i was a therapist id be scared if a client told me they wanted to beat the crap out of me.
but the truth is, i think i make it out to be worse than it is.
when i told her i was filled with rage, it was very uncomfortable and scary and im afraid of it and what it would lead me to do, she explained that it was pretty normal given the nature of the things we have been talking about.
additionally, the stuff about her not giving me information, i can live with that. i think its true what she says and what other posters have said, its more important to find out why i need to know.
and of course, if this comes up or escalates, i will do what i need to do to find a new therapist. however it seems to be on its way to resolution, the rage.
Posted by deerock on July 21, 2009, at 19:43:03
In reply to Re: to terminate or keep going Â, posted by emilyp on July 21, 2009, at 19:15:49
thanks for reading my post and responding by the way. i appreciate it. have a nice day.
Posted by antigua3 on July 21, 2009, at 23:19:28
In reply to Re: to terminate or keep going » antigua3, posted by deerock on July 21, 2009, at 15:42:30
Let me add something important here. While I've been going through this experience with my male pdoc, I've always had a female--warm, loving and supporting psychodynamic therapist to help me navigate these sharky waters. I never would have made it without her to support me.
It has been suggested to me many times on this board that a male therapist who practices psychodynamic therapy might have been a better choice for me so I wouldn't have had to experience the pain I've gone through, and they may be right, but I've made it through with my pdoc to a much better place.
So think of the type of therapy you think would work best, and the type of person you want to work with. I don't recommend two therapists at the same time because it gets very complicated. It has worked for me, only because I think I was so determined to make it work, despite the pain and anguish it has caused. I'm strong enough now to know that I can walk out that door on my own terms now if I think working with this pdoc is damaging to my self-esteem or my recovery.
I made it harder on myself than it needed to be, but the progress has been fast and furious, and that's what I really wanted. I had no idea it would turn out this way, but it has worked for me.
antigua
Posted by deerock on July 22, 2009, at 9:41:46
In reply to Re: to terminate or keep going » deerock, posted by antigua3 on July 21, 2009, at 23:19:28
can you explain why the male psychodynamic pdoc would be better for you?
im glad you made good progress. thats excellent.
Posted by antigua3 on July 22, 2009, at 20:39:06
In reply to Re: to terminate or keep going » antigua3, posted by deerock on July 22, 2009, at 9:41:46
I have issues with male authority figures and my current pdoc is CBT and pyschoanalytical, plus whatever else works he says. In any case, it's certainly not touchy, feely therapy where I feel his warmth and caring. Everything I learn is painfully wrenched from my experiences with him and I don't often think I have a safety net. That's a false assumption on my part--I think it's probably pure projection.
In any case, given my long-term experience with a psychodynamic therapist, if I had gone with a male in this case, I think I would have developed a more caring, empathetic bond--which would have taken time--and I wouldn't feel so alone in the process. The pace probably would have been slower.
But I think I made the right choice, given the way my pdoc has triggered so much of my early life experience growing up with a stern male authority figure, and we've made tremendous progress--although it has been very painful and quick paced (maybe too fast?), but it has worked for me, it was what I needed at the time. Sometimes I didn't think I would make it, and I've wanted to walk out the door so many times, but I'm glad I kept going back.
But everyone's different.
antigua
Posted by rskontos on July 22, 2009, at 22:20:09
In reply to to terminate or keep going, posted by deerock on July 21, 2009, at 10:18:34
deerock,
I don't know a great deal about my therapist/pdoc who is an psychoanalyst but then again, I did not want to know much. I felt knowing more made it personal and I did not want personal. I felt safety in the boundaries put up by not knowing. I don't need someone else to feel guilty about or worrying about them. I need my t to be someone that is just supportive enough, not too touchy feely, not to personal. It has been what has been helpful..Sometimes his manner of delivery of his thoughts has hurt until I really thought about what he said and then it made sense.
Therapy is painful no matter how it is handled. It just is. You have to try and realize early that it is going to be hard and hurt but in the end maybe you will be a bit better. Maybe a great deal better.
It is a crap shoot if you ask me.
rsk
Posted by deerock on July 23, 2009, at 3:46:13
In reply to Re: to terminate or keep going » deerock, posted by rskontos on July 22, 2009, at 22:20:09
I understand your point. Thanks for your thoughts.
I want to get a whole lot better I guess. That's what scares me is either not getting better or getting a wee bit better. I don't want either of those things.
Posted by antigua3 on July 23, 2009, at 11:54:13
In reply to Re: to terminate or keep going, posted by deerock on July 23, 2009, at 3:46:13
I agree with everything rskontos said. She said it so much better than I could.:) I feel the same way about my pdoc--I don't want to know anything about him, it has been painful and hurtful, etc.
Let me say one other thing from my perspective. It's not a linear process. You may get worse before you get better (I certainly did) and you may find times when you only feel a little bit better or you may feel stuck. It's not easy and it's a process that isn't predetermined. I had to take tremendous risks at times and sometimes it didn't work out the way I'd hoped.
just something to think about,
antigua
Posted by deerock on July 23, 2009, at 14:03:39
In reply to Re: to terminate or keep going » deerock, posted by antigua3 on July 23, 2009, at 11:54:13
i understand. i have been with my T for 19 months. i went way in the toilet after about a year. im starting to come out of it after 7 months. so i think i had the worse and now better scenario. at least it better not get worse again :)
what kind of risks do you mean? you dont have to specify. just asking.
Posted by antigua3 on July 23, 2009, at 15:36:11
In reply to Re: to terminate or keep going » antigua3, posted by deerock on July 23, 2009, at 14:03:39
Risks?
to take that leap of faith to trust my T and especially my pdoc
to believe my pdoc that he wouldn't abandon me so I could get past that fear
to go to places I was afraid to go, but needed to go in order to get better
to believe that they both would really be with me to help me (and that the experience would be different than my having to go it alone as I did as a child) when I traveled down paths I didn't know where we were going.
antigua
Posted by deerock on July 23, 2009, at 15:44:16
In reply to Re: to terminate or keep going » deerock, posted by antigua3 on July 23, 2009, at 15:36:11
nice. i get it. i need to take those risks too. i dont trust em. but i fight it. and i keep going. i trust that i will learn to trust. if you know what i mean.
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