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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tabitha on April 30, 2009, at 1:57:45
My therapist tells me I've gotten better, but I keep complaining that I don't feel fundamentally less miserable. I can recognize that there used to be a different quality to my misery-- I felt more desperate, and compelled to do things that seemed to promise relief, but actually just created more problems. Now my unhappiness is less chaotic. Mostly I just endure it.
So I can recognize that this is progress of a sort, but I'm not convinced I really feel better. A different flavor of misery just doesn't feel like enough reward.
Posted by Dinah on April 30, 2009, at 11:03:39
In reply to Has therapy made you happier?, posted by Tabitha on April 30, 2009, at 1:57:45
I found that analysis of DBT results fascinating. It's got such a great success rate. But they measure that by functioning. The self report of how they feel showed less impressive results.
I figure that what therapy does is help us keep from setting traps for ourselves, getting in the way of our own happiness. Maybe encouraging us to do things that would increase our subjective happiness.
Happiness is an elusive goal, though. And I'm not sure that therapy has the reach necessary to contribute directly to that.
On the other hand, I think I'd answer sort of. In that I understand more why I do the things I do, and maybe even get a glimmer of why others do the things they do. My therapist uses a lot of eastern philosophy, though I'm not sure he'd put it like that. I think I've learned to let things go more, and to accept my limitations.
But happiness... Well, that's a tough one. The general wisdom says that it doesn't come from exterior circumstances. That we can't wait for xxx in order to be happy. I'm not sure that's realistic for all that many of us though. I know I have no particular natural talent for happiness. It does matter to my happiness that I have things in my life that bring something to my life.
Do you have things in life that bring you joy? Or contentment? Or interest? Or amusement? Are there ways you can use your better adjustment to help you find those things in your life?
Posted by raisinb on April 30, 2009, at 12:00:19
In reply to Has therapy made you happier?, posted by Tabitha on April 30, 2009, at 1:57:45
In the long term, maybe. It's made me happier, sadder, more joyous, more suicidal, angrier, etc. over the four years.
I guess I'd differentiate happiness--which is an emotion I feel sometimes--from long-term change. I'd say therapy has made me more myself. Which doesn't guarantee happiness, but does give everything I do and say a purity and a strength I didn't have before. Now I know where I'm going, I guess.
Posted by Tabitha on April 30, 2009, at 12:12:31
In reply to Re: Has therapy made you happier?, posted by Dinah on April 30, 2009, at 11:03:39
What you said about the DBT study jives with what I'm experiencing. I do function better. But I'm not sure I *feel* better overall.
Interesting to think therapy just doesn't have the reach to increase happiness. Maybe I expect too much.
I do have interests and hobbies and all that. But it seems the problems & worries still come in so powerfully that the overall tone of my life is struggle and, well, this thing I call the big ball of misery. And there's less pleasure in general lately, which points to a med issue.
Posted by Tabitha on April 30, 2009, at 12:14:34
In reply to Re: Has therapy made you happier? » Tabitha, posted by raisinb on April 30, 2009, at 12:00:19
Hmm, I'm not sure I feel more myself. Maybe. I'm just a bit tired of myself lately. I'd like to shed a big huge part of myself.
Posted by pegasus on April 30, 2009, at 12:27:44
In reply to Has therapy made you happier?, posted by Tabitha on April 30, 2009, at 1:57:45
For me it definitely has. I think a lot of the increased happiness is in response to finding the right meds for me. But also, I think I was the type of person who had a type of happiness before therapy as well. It was always just too much to be really pleasant. I was either slogging through some form of despair, or jangled up with a crazy excitement. So, learning to manage my emotions through therapy has helped a lot, and meds have brought them down into a range that I can manage. That's over the long term. In the short term, there have definitely been times when my misery was increasing or not changing in response to things going on in therapy.
I think it depends on exactly what is the root of your misery, and what you're doing in therapy. I agree with Dinah that removing misery may not always be something that therapy can help you accomplish. In my case it has helped a lot with that. But I'd say, even more, it's been about increasing meaning in my life.
Peg
Posted by SLS on April 30, 2009, at 15:56:14
In reply to Has therapy made you happier?, posted by Tabitha on April 30, 2009, at 1:57:45
I think psychotherapy has given me the tools to work with so that I can interact with myself and the world around me in such a way as to promote my goal of being happy.
How happy does one have to be before they consider themselves to be happy?
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on April 30, 2009, at 23:58:57
In reply to Re: Has therapy made you happier?, posted by SLS on April 30, 2009, at 15:56:14
Content and at peace workng on that. Phillipa
Posted by Tabitha on May 1, 2009, at 1:39:03
In reply to Re: Has therapy made you happier?, posted by pegasus on April 30, 2009, at 12:27:44
Increasing meaning, huh? I wonder if that's a lot of what's missing for me at this point. For so long, therapy (and my whole life really) was about fighting depression, becoming consistently functional, and getting to a point where suicide no longer feels like a possibility. Those were big battles. Now I'm functional enough. I'm non-depressed enough. I'll most likely die of something more mundane than suicide.
Yet, just becoming functional isn't enough of a basis for happiness for me. Obviously I've already learned to take it for granted.
I don't know what gives my life meaning.
Posted by Tabitha on May 1, 2009, at 1:42:17
In reply to Re: Has therapy made you happier?, posted by SLS on April 30, 2009, at 15:56:14
> I think psychotherapy has given me the tools to work with so that I can interact with myself and the world around me in such a way as to promote my goal of being happy.
That sounds very reasonable. Again, I wonder if I expected too much. Somehow I thought happiness was supposed to be a direct outcome of therapy. Like it would just remove the bad parts of me, and the person left would be happy.
>
> How happy does one have to be before they consider themselves to be happy?
>
>I don't know. Maybe feeling generally OK most of the time? And truly happy every so often? And overall, content and at peace? That's what I imagine anyway.
Posted by Annierose on May 1, 2009, at 6:49:57
In reply to Re: Has therapy made you happier? » SLS, posted by Tabitha on May 1, 2009, at 1:42:17
For me, therapy has helped me feel supported and valued. I wouldn't describe that as "happy" yet I feel better about who I am as a person.
My issues that brought me to therapy are more anxiety based than depressive thoughts - although I have been depressed.
Posted by Dinah on May 1, 2009, at 12:06:16
In reply to Re: Has therapy made you happier? » pegasus, posted by Tabitha on May 1, 2009, at 1:39:03
I like what Pegasus said. Maybe it's time to introduce a bit of existentialism into your therapy time?
And of course tweak the meds if you think there might be some biological stuff going on.
Posted by Sigismund on May 3, 2009, at 16:08:21
In reply to Has therapy made you happier?, posted by Tabitha on April 30, 2009, at 1:57:45
No. That's not what it's there for. (Why not?)
You change. I started therapy in 74 and went until 88 or something like that.
I'm a very different person in some ways, but I'm not happier. I do enjoy things more, but then I like them less too. I'm better at entertaining myself and like my own company more. I like colours more, the sky, the trees, this wonderful world with these problematic humans in it and for this particular one my time here now is, I can see, limited, which helps me hate it less and even enjoy it more.
Posted by raisinb on May 3, 2009, at 16:34:15
In reply to Re: Has therapy made you happier? » SLS, posted by Tabitha on May 1, 2009, at 1:42:17
"Like it would just remove the bad parts of me, and the person left would be happy."
This resonated with me. I started therapy with just the same assumption, though I didn't fully know it. Finally I realized that wanting to get rid of the "bad" parts of me was itself the problem. I had to hear what they were saying and stop thinking of them as "bad." This led to a new level of self-love. Paradoxically, I think a lot of the change in therapy is realizing you don't need to--or that you're going to--change that much. And that in itself is a huge change.
Posted by SLS on May 3, 2009, at 16:42:36
In reply to Re: Has therapy made you happier? » Tabitha, posted by raisinb on May 3, 2009, at 16:34:15
> Paradoxically, I think a lot of the change in therapy is realizing you don't need to...
Way cool.
:-)
- Scott
Posted by Sigismund on May 4, 2009, at 2:38:54
In reply to Re: Has therapy made you happier? » Tabitha, posted by raisinb on May 3, 2009, at 16:34:15
I'm not sure that self love is the best term but I very much liked what you said there.
Posted by Tabitha on May 4, 2009, at 22:11:44
In reply to Re: Has therapy made you happier? » Tabitha, posted by raisinb on May 3, 2009, at 16:34:15
Raisinb, your thoughts remind me of the Wizard of Oz. "you had the power to go home all along"
Very comforting idea :)
Posted by Sigismund on May 5, 2009, at 1:29:47
In reply to Re: Has therapy made you happier? » raisinb, posted by Tabitha on May 4, 2009, at 22:11:44
A great psychologist but not a great wizard?
Posted by chumbawumba on May 11, 2009, at 15:49:09
In reply to Has therapy made you happier?, posted by Tabitha on April 30, 2009, at 1:57:45
Hmmm, reading the responses here is a little discouraging. So much equivocation, "Yes a little, but..."
I think psychotherapy is a black art and too many therapists have their heads firmly wedged in their *ss*s.
I can't tell you how many psychologists I know who are f*ck*d up miserable people.
It's like going to a bar and asking the owner to help you stop drinking.
I went to school and got my Masters in Clinical Psych and I can tell you out of ten therapists maybe one is any good. I include myself in the 9 out of 10 who aren't so I don't do that for a living.
Might as well sacrifice a f*cking chicken and burn some incense.
/end rant
Posted by Dinah on May 11, 2009, at 17:20:07
In reply to Re: Has therapy made you happier?, posted by chumbawumba on May 11, 2009, at 15:49:09
Well, I'm glad you know yourself well enough to understand that this wasn't the right career choice for you.
I don't know the particular percentages, but I thoroughly agree that clients are well advised to screen therapists carefully, and to know that a therapy choice is not final.
But a good therapist can help quite a bit, if a client is open to change. I'm not sure of the controlled studies done on the effectiveness of sacrificing chickens... But I'm no fan of entrails anyway.
(Did you really get that from the responses? That wasn't my sense of what people were saying at all.)
Posted by Sigismund on May 12, 2009, at 16:33:21
In reply to Re: Has therapy made you happier?, posted by chumbawumba on May 11, 2009, at 15:49:09
>Might as well sacrifice a f*cking chicken and burn some incense.
Not such a bad idea, although I have lingering problems with the idea of sacrifice.
The Communion Service made my school days tolerable.
Eating God's body and drinking His blood is a little strange, but we humans get up to all sorts of interesting things.
This is the end of the thread.
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