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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on July 16, 2008, at 23:03:14
This is the new conceptualization I'm having trouble with. I do see how it fits. Although I think it's more an offshoot of the whole dissociative tendency of my brain. But I also think that a hammer is going to think everything is a nail. He does do a lot of addictions work, and is in fact training in sexual addictions specifically.
He thinks I'm a sex addict. I think he's missing the point.
I get enthusiasms. They could be seen as the upside to OCD. Or they could be seen as a facilitator of dissociation. In fact, my OCD anxieties could also be seen as a facilitator of dissociation. A powerful distraction from my real pain or real concerns. I think that's how I've come to see them.
My enthusiasms could be about anything. But they generally focus on any of a variety of interests and hobbies I have. Maybe one week every three to five years, it might be sex. I'm pretty sure that doesn't a sex addict make. While I do see why he's saying what he's saying, I'd say I'm an addiction addict. It's the process of the addiction that's the goal, not whatever the flavor of the day happens to be. It could as well be paint as sex, and if it was compelling enough it could well be watching grass grow. So he bends a bit and says that maybe I'm suffering from multiple addictions. And I *still* think that's missing the point.
I looked up the addiction cycle and found this..
http://www.sexaddicthelp.com/Articles/addiction_cycle.htm
And it does look very very familiar. The dissociation - I think that's the whole point of the exercise for me. The altered state - I've always expressed it as feeling like I'm in a trance, then snapping out of the trance and wondering what on earth I was doing? The release. Yes, snapping out of the trance often comes from buying something, or eating something, or cutting myself. Because in addition to the OCD anxieties, and the enthusiasms, I think my cutting behavior also fell into this cycle. Shame? Well, yes. I don't know that I ever do anything worth intense shame. But I definitely feel some shame. Resolve to do better? In the past more than now. I think I'm more resigned now.
So the addiction cycle fits. Absolutely. But I think he misses the point if he tries to tie it in to the object of the obsession. Because it really doesn't matter. It could be anything. The dissociation is the real object. It's another way of dissociating, like my forgetting sleeps.
Now this will sound a bit odd. I've always referred to something I used to call the Captain, until my therapist insisted on thinking it had consciousness, or that I thought it had consciousness. Now I call it The Controller. I see it as a series of circuit breakers or something like that. When my distress reaches a certain point, my brain switches something on or off and something happens to stop the distress from building.
It takes a lot of forms. Forgetting sleep is one. I actually dozed off in session Tuesday. Another is thought stopping. I can be in the middle of a sentence, and if I say something I'm not supposed to say I'll just stop talking and my mind goes blank. And my suspicion is that these addictive behaviors are another.
I have no conscious control over this process. That's why I call it the Controller, I guess. Yet I have never had any indication that the Controller had a separate consciousness or will or anything. It seems to me to be an automatic defense system. Albeit a rather intense one.
My therapist wants me to try to start a dialog with this part of me. I have no problem with doing this, although I'm pretty sure I'll get no response, since I don't think it's that sort of entity.
I'm wondering if this is the perfect time to try hypnosis. To plant the suggestion to my automatic defense system that it choose work or exercise or cleaning the house as the focus of the obsession.
Any thoughts? If you made it this far of course. In which case I congratulate you and thank you.
Posted by Midnightblue on July 16, 2008, at 23:39:10
In reply to But now he thinks I'm an addict. Very long. Sorry., posted by Dinah on July 16, 2008, at 23:03:14
Dinah,
I'm addicted to comfort food.
MB
Posted by Dinah on July 17, 2008, at 0:05:49
In reply to Re: But now he thinks I'm an addict. Very long. Sorry. » Dinah, posted by Midnightblue on July 16, 2008, at 23:39:10
That too. :) Unfortunately for my body though, it isn't a cycle. It's pretty much a constant.
What I think of as comfort food does change though. I have a cold right now, so I'm a bit queasy. I think I'm some sort of virus magnet. :( Anyway, my usual staples of bread and potatoes seem revolting to me. All I want to eat is tacos and pound cake.
And I went through a couple of weeks where all I really wanted to eat was pickled asparagus, with maybe some steamed asparagus thrown in. Sometimes I eat salad for dessert, and other times I can't even stand the sight of salad.
My husband didn't detect any change in my cravings when I was pregnant. :)
Posted by Daisym on July 17, 2008, at 1:16:43
In reply to Re: But now he thinks I'm an addict. Very long. So » Midnightblue, posted by Dinah on July 17, 2008, at 0:05:49
I think you know yourself very well, Dinah. What you wrote makes sense to me. I think one of the reasons I'm thought of as a "highly functioning" person is that my need to control things, including my anxiety is channeled into work or housework. Doing things, like keeping all your cupboards cleaned out, is valued - even when it is done compulsively.
I definitely think you can be addicted to addiction. I think people get addicted to drama, and pain and anxiety. "The devil you know" and all that.
I bet the discussions in therapy will be very interesting the next few weeks.
Posted by muffled on July 17, 2008, at 9:28:56
In reply to Re: But now he thinks I'm an addict. Very long. So » Dinah, posted by Daisym on July 17, 2008, at 1:16:43
Good for you Dinah.
You got lots to figger.
I dunno who controls security in myself either.
Good luck w/all this!
M
Posted by Dinah on July 17, 2008, at 10:31:47
In reply to Re: But now he thinks I'm an addict. Very long. So » Dinah, posted by Daisym on July 17, 2008, at 1:16:43
I suppose they will. :)
If he remembers what we were talking about.
This is why I'm thinking hypnosis might be a good idea. No one would think twice if I used the same process, but the apparent goal was to do my work or keep my house looking nice. So if it would be possible to substitute, my needs would be met, but I would be more productive and less self destructive.
Like reaching for gum instead of a cigarette.
A quick fix I suppose, if it works. But what's wrong with quick fixes?
Posted by Dinah on July 17, 2008, at 10:33:41
In reply to Re: But now he thinks I'm an addict. Very long. So, posted by muffled on July 17, 2008, at 9:28:56
If it was a who rather than a what, it might be more symptomatic, but easier to change and influence.
Unfortunately, I think it's a what.
Thanks, Muffled. I'm glad to hear you're doing so well with your new therapist.
Posted by raisinb on July 17, 2008, at 12:48:58
In reply to But now he thinks I'm an addict. Very long. Sorry., posted by Dinah on July 16, 2008, at 23:03:14
It does sound like he's trying to fit a complex psychological process into a label that's too simplistic.
Is there a chance it could be partly chemical? I've had similar obsessive "enthusiasms" when I was on a new medication or supplement. Sam-E was the most pronounced--it did put me in kind of a manic "trance." Wellbutrin too--still does a bit, but it's mitigated by Zoloft.
I know you've modified your meds regime a good deal, but it might be worth asking your pdoc about it again (apologies if you've already done this a million times).
As for hypnosis, it does work in the short term I think.
Posted by Phillipa on July 17, 2008, at 13:13:05
In reply to Re: But now he thinks I'm an addict. Very long. So » Dinah, posted by raisinb on July 17, 2008, at 12:48:58
My addiction is I feel I have to be out of here but not place to go no money to spend no one to talk to and then no husband that shares any of this just gets mad. It's viscious for me. Love Phillipa
Posted by antigua3 on July 17, 2008, at 13:26:37
In reply to Re: But now he thinks I'm an addict. Very long. So » Daisym, posted by Dinah on July 17, 2008, at 10:31:47
Nothing wrong with quick fixes. I could use a few that aren't chocolate, sleeping....
Just wanted to mention that I spent six months on hypnosis, trying to get to the core of my feelings. I experienced a calmness and comfortableness but I don't think I ever really "went under." I will admit that I backed off when things started to get uncomfortable, but maybe that was because I didn't/couldn't/shouldn't go where he might have been taking me. Too close for comfort for me.
In any case, if you consider hypnosis, make sure you feel you have the strength to do it. Uncovering things before we're ready for them can be too much to handle sometimes. At least that's my 2 cents and what I learned from my T.
good luck, and I think you're right. It doesn't matter what the addiction is, but I am surprised your T picked up on sex addiction. I wouldn't have picked that for you--I would have thought spending, etc. would be more in line what you've let us know about you.
antigua
Posted by Dinah on July 17, 2008, at 18:21:01
In reply to Re: But now he thinks I'm an addict. Very long. So » Dinah, posted by raisinb on July 17, 2008, at 12:48:58
I used to think it was solely chemical. Part of the OCD because it's very very similar to OCD thoughts in quality. I'd call it the flip side to the OCD. We treated it from that angle, since really it's more destructive to my life than the negative thoughts.
But I started noticing that these things weren't really random. That they served a psychological function. When I was upset or stressed something like this would flip on. An enthusiasm, or an OCD fear, or a self injury obsession. When it was over I had pretty much put aside what I was upset about. It didn't seem like something that fit so perfectly with life events could be totally chemical in nature. Although I'm sure chemical processes play an important role, I'm just not sure that chemical processes trigger it.
It could be that the brain takes the path of least resistance. Since I'm hardwired for certain things, maybe my brain uses those things in a not entirely purposeful, but not entirely random, sort of way. If that makes sense. My brains sort of pushes an already loaded cart onto an already prepared railway track when for some reason it believes a diversion is needed.
My brain has been watching too many Hogan's Heroes reruns. :) "Ok, Carter. You and Newkirk create a diversion..."
I'm on almost no psych meds right now, actually. The migraine prophylaxis I'm on, Lamictal, doubles as a mood stabilizer. And even after going through a long withdrawal period, I can't avoid early morning wakings without .5 mg Klonopin each night. And I take Risperdal, my beloved ego strength in a bottle, as needed when my anxiety levels go too high. Mmmmm.... Risperdal.....
I suppose the Provigil is also a psych med, though I consider it a stay awake med.
Posted by Dinah on July 17, 2008, at 18:23:30
In reply to Re: But now he thinks I'm an addict. Very long. So, posted by Phillipa on July 17, 2008, at 13:13:05
You don't need a husband to go out, or much money. You have two dogs right? I've *always* found that dogs are an instant pathway to people to talk to. Chloe must be pretty cute. Put her in a few bows and take her for a walks, and you'll have more people to talk to than you can handle, I'll bet.
So much easier to socialize with a baby or a dog to focus on...
How have you been doing on your goals to drive a bit?
Posted by Dinah on July 17, 2008, at 18:43:58
In reply to Re: But now he thinks I'm an addict. Very long. So » Dinah, posted by antigua3 on July 17, 2008, at 13:26:37
Now that's one major concern I have. I was totally unmoved by that tapping therapy. The therapist wanted me to leave early because her arm hurt midway through the second session. She said obviously it wasn't going to happen.
I hypnotize myself all the time. It seems hard to believe that I wouldn't hypnotize easily. But I actually might not ever make it. My therapist doesn't do hypnosis. I know him well enough to relax into it, perhaps. But I have serious doubts about relaxing that much with anyone else. I've been known to have control issues. :)
I don't really want to do any deep probing with it. I know it's supposed to be a bit dangerous with people with dissociative traits. But my ego states have been pretty stable for all these years. I don't imagine I'll discover anything about myself. I just want to do some targeted substitution of enthusiasm topics.
Darned if I know why he singled out sex addiction, other than that he's been to several courses and is in the process of getting certified in it. I guess I'd be a handy dandy practice subject.
I've been completely open about the extent of the sexual part of the enthusiasms. As far as I can tell, it was about a week, and five years earlier about a week, and three years before that about a week. There is no actual acting out in that there is no actual sex involved. I don't much care for sex involving other people. And I wouldn't say that sex takes up an abnormal amount of my time or attention in general. So he says that I have sex addiction all the time, it's just that I exhibit sexual anorexia most of the time. And after looking that one up on the internet, I was really really irate. To be considered sexually anorexic, at least five of the following would have to be true. I'd maybe sort of admit to one of those. And it hurts to think he thinks they apply to me. I don't like sex with others, maybe. But none of those criteria has anything to do with feelings, and everything to do with behaviors. :(
Withholding love
Withholding praise
Controlling with silence or anger
Ongoing or ungrounded criticism
Withholding sex
Unwillingness or inability to share feelings
Staying so busy you have no time for your partner
Controlling or shaming partner with money issuesSorry. I'm ranting a bit. But yes, spending would be involved in many of my enthusiasms, so if anything I belong in debtors anonymous. How he could think anyone like me is sexually addicted is totally beyond me. It's bizarre really.
Sigh. Perhaps I shocked him recently. He swore to me he wasn't as uptight as he looks, and that if I ever knew him in that sense, I'd never say he was conventional. He said perhaps he isn't "loosey goosey" (yes, that expression should have been my tipoff), but that he wasn't uptight either. But I think maybe he really is. I should have listened to my own instincts and not to his self assessment. Guys don't generally like to think they're uptight. Not even therapist guys.
Posted by Phillipa on July 17, 2008, at 21:13:56
In reply to Re: But now he thinks I'm an addict. Very long. So » Phillipa, posted by Dinah on July 17, 2008, at 18:23:30
Day before yesterday drove the highway to a mall got what I went for left and then stopped in another store and took the long way to drop off a prescription. It's sometimes. Thanks for remembering and asking. Love Phillipa what a wierd name I picked!!!!!
Posted by Dinah on July 17, 2008, at 21:18:33
In reply to Re: But now he thinks I'm an addict. Very long. So » Dinah, posted by Phillipa on July 17, 2008, at 21:13:56
Good for you!
Of course I remembered. I just didn't want to ask too often for fear I'd be a nag.
I hope you're suitably impressed with yourself. :)
Why is Phillipa an odd name? I probably misspell it at times since I always have trouble remembering how many consonants. But it seems like a perfectly good name.
Posted by Phillipa on July 17, 2008, at 21:41:29
In reply to Re: But now he thinks I'm an addict. Very long. So » antigua3, posted by Dinah on July 17, 2008, at 18:43:58
Seems it's a bad word on unmentioned boards. Love Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on July 17, 2008, at 21:51:39
In reply to Re: But now he thinks I'm an addict. Very long. So » Dinah, posted by Phillipa on July 17, 2008, at 21:41:29
What's a bad word? Did I say something wrong?
Posted by Phillipa on July 17, 2008, at 23:48:57
In reply to Re: But now he thinks I'm an addict. Very long. So » Phillipa, posted by Dinah on July 17, 2008, at 21:51:39
Dinah no my name is a bad word on other boards find the people friendly and understanding here. Now I ask you why did you think you did something wrong or said a bad word did I word it that badly or is it self-esteem just a question as I do the same thing to myself all the time. You're a sweetie. Love Phillipa bad name word
Posted by Dinah on July 18, 2008, at 12:33:37
In reply to But now he thinks I'm an addict. Very long. Sorry., posted by Dinah on July 16, 2008, at 23:03:14
He actually googled sexual anorexia after I called and asked him to. I must admit I was stunned. I fully expected him to have forgotten, and printed out the information to bring with me. The first thing out of his mouth was that I was right, that was definitely not what he meant. And we both reflected on how much had changed that I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he hadn't meant that at all.
He's agreed to stop speaking of sexual addiction, although he didn't agree to stop thinking of it. But we'll address it as a more general problem.
He ok'd adjunct hypnotherapy.
And I've arranged an initial appointment with a hypnotherapist who says she has had success with OCD patients on substituting obsessions, and was also experienced with dissociation. She didn't seem all that confident or excited, although it sounds as if she's done this for a while. I'm willing to give it a shot.
It does seem to me though, that a key component of hypnotherapy would be the confidence of its practitioner...
This is the end of the thread.
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