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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by RealMe on September 24, 2007, at 0:26:24
I have been feeling fairly good lately even though I have only seen my T once per week for the past two weeks. Back to normal schedule this week. Anyway, I had been thinking how I am really doing pretty good all things considered.
I went to a niece's baby-shower Sunday afternoon, and I totally lost it as I could not remember how to drive there. Before I left, my husband pulled out a map for me, and he was trying to show me how to go somewhere I have been a million times but not since I had ECT. I got a route figured out, but it was clear to me as I was driving there (it is around one hour and 15 minutes from where I live) that I lost my sense of direction and could not remember where the hell I was. I was so upset. The visual spatial is just so messed up. I would like to use the F word actually. So the ECT on the right side is still causing me disorientation and other right brain problems. plus it was evident today that I still have short-term memory problems. I tend to joke about things at work and make fun of myself so that people will not be aware of my difficulty. But it is there.
I am so worried now as I am presenting at a conference in mid October, and what is I can't remember something. I could do a power point, but since I am part of a group presenting, I think none of us will be doing power point. This is the first conference I have presented at since I had ECT.
Oh crap and double crap. I thought I was doing better, and now I am in just a horrible funk, feeling really down and discouraged. It has been almost six months since I did the damn ECT, and I am still having problems that may never resolve. This makes me cry (by myself) and wish that I could just die and be done with it all. I hate it when I start feeling this way because it seems like I am feeling sorry for myself which I am, and damn it I think I might have a right to feel that way now after what the 2nd ECT doc did to me with the last treatment--higher shock level and allowed the seizure to go three times as long as the other ECT doc. I am better than I was then, but I am not okay, and it is very upsetting when I have this verified.
If anyone thinks ECT does not do harm, think again. Besides more recent long term memory being spotty, unfortunately I remember all too well the abuse crap from childhood. If I was going to have to forget something, I wish it could have been that. Enough, I need to go to bed. I did not get all my work done from last week, and now I will really have a pile on. Oh crap.
RealMe
Posted by Daisym on September 24, 2007, at 2:13:15
In reply to RE: How could I change so quickly, posted by RealMe on September 24, 2007, at 0:26:24
(((Oz)))
You will be OK. Everyone experiences word retrival issues at one time or another when presenting. Make notes to yourself and have a calming word on the side of your notes. I write "breathe" and "slow down" on my notes. Practice out loud, even if you know your stuff. That way if you have a lapse your brain will move to some part of it. I also use reminders in my outline, just in case.
It all sounds so frustrating. I was lost last summer on my way to somewhere I'd been a million times. I was actually afraid I was getting alzheimer's. But then I stopped and considered my stress levels and how many things I had on my mind, no wonder I got lost! Don't be too hard on yourself. Recover takes a long time. And you are so good at compensating.
It isn't easy, nor fair. But it is what it is. You are still you. Take good care.
Posted by Dory on September 24, 2007, at 6:45:26
In reply to RE: How could I change so quickly, posted by RealMe on September 24, 2007, at 0:26:24
i don't have time for much of a reply.. i have to run out the door, but i wanted to post a note to give you a hug..
(((((((((((((((((realme)))))))))))))))))))
take care sweetie... i'll write later ok?
Posted by Dinah on September 24, 2007, at 8:33:54
In reply to RE: How could I change so quickly, posted by RealMe on September 24, 2007, at 0:26:24
:(
I'm sorry. I feel the same way at times. And it's really at odds with how I think of myself. I think...
I have trouble with word retrieval all the time. I was in a perfectly pleasant conversation yesterday with a parent from my son's school. It got so bad that he was supplying the missing words for me. I wasn't nervous, and felt at ease. It just happens sometimes. I think people understand. And as Daisy said, just have something you can refer to if the word won't come.
Posted by RealMe on September 24, 2007, at 20:27:14
In reply to RE: How could I change so quickly » RealMe, posted by Dinah on September 24, 2007, at 8:33:54
Thanks everyone for the responses. I don't think I am as worried about the persentaion as I can pretty much write it out. I am worried about the visual-spatial disorientation thouth. Rather I should say I am upset about it as I had learned from the neurologist I saw after I stopped the ECT that I now have scar tissue on my amygdula. I was having olfactory hallucinations that have subsided for the most part but only because I went back on Neurontin. I hate having things happen to me like that and hate being reminded that it is from the ECT. I used to be so really good with visual spatial orientation--better than my husband, etc. Now, I can't do a lot of math stuff either. Thank God for computers and computer programs. I will be okay, but it just really put a damper on things yesterday and yesterday evening. I was so busy at work today, too busy, that I did not have time to think about it.
Tomorrow at 6:45 a.m. is therapy. God I sort of don't even want to go, but I am a cheapscape and don't want to pay 245 dollars for nothing. Oh crap. So what do I talk about--the past csa or right now stuff or why I sometimes think he is laughing at me. What is the vote. I would be interested.
RealMe
Posted by twinleaf on September 24, 2007, at 21:38:15
In reply to RE: How could I change so quickly, posted by RealMe on September 24, 2007, at 20:27:14
I'm so sorry you have had problems like the ones you mentioned from the ECT. It is still quite soon after, and, your brain having so much plasticity and potential for repair, don't you think there is a good chance of continued improvement for a long time? I don't know for sure, but I am thinking this way much more than I used to. (I'm a neurologist).
I don't know what the best way to approach a therapy session is, but I've adopted a style of going in without even a whisper of a plan, and seeing what I say when I open my mouth- as well as paying a lot of attention to the relational aspects between my therapist and me. I had emotional, physical and sexual abuse in my childhood; I never plan on talking about any particular topic, but I have come to, more or less, trust that I'll say at least something about what is causing me the most distress on a given day.
By the way, I thought I was at the very top of the fee scale ($200), but you are quite a bit above- the highest I've heard of!
Posted by RealMe on September 24, 2007, at 22:38:56
In reply to RE: How could I change so quickly » RealMe, posted by twinleaf on September 24, 2007, at 21:38:15
Thanks for your response. It is good to hear that maybe there will still be improvement. I stopped the ECT early, after number 7 because I was in such a state. I could not remember anything for more than a few minutes to a few hours. I was so disoriented, I could not remember how to get to my place of employment. I was confused, significant problems with attention and concentration, word finding difficulties and spelling problems and more. Since I am a forensic psychologist now (trained in clinical psychology), I was so upset. Most things have improved over time, and so it took me by surprise that I got so disoriented trying to find the address where I was going. I also have cataracts from my pulmonary meds; and I was supposed to get my new glasses on Saturday, but they are not done yet. I too have a history of sexual, physical, and emotional abuse. I think I need to talk about the abuse stuff as when I don't, my T very nicely says that I am avoiding things, and what do I think that is about. Time before last I saw penises all over his carpet. Last time they were all cute animals and tress and shrubs. He has a Rorschach of a carpet--persian. Thanks, though. Your response means a lot to me, and isn't it amazing to get through school with all that has happened in one's life. I think for me school was a refuge when I was younger. Then, when I did the postdoctoral fellowship for two years, I thought I was past it all, that it would not bother me. My only more recent regret is that I did not see that my previous therapist was not qualified to deal with my abuse issues. I only ended up getting more and more depressed, hence the recommendation for ECT. I really wish so much I had never done it, but I can't go back and undo what has been done. My current T is a psychoanalyst who, from what he says, does not seem to favor ECT. Yeah!!! So thanks again.
RealMe
Posted by JoniS on September 24, 2007, at 22:39:06
In reply to RE: How could I change so quickly, posted by RealMe on September 24, 2007, at 20:27:14
FWIW
Talk about "now" stuff.
$245... for real?? Wow.
Take Good Care!
Posted by RealMe on September 25, 2007, at 23:13:32
In reply to RE: How could I change so quickly » RealMe, posted by JoniS on September 24, 2007, at 22:39:06
And $245 is for 45 minutes; My last T was $215 for 45 minutes. My current T is supposed to be good, and I think he is.
Today with therapy, I talked about stuff going on in my life and some of the crap with my congregation. I talked about how I had visual-spatial disorientation trying to find where I was going to my niece's baby shower. Then I said something about the past stuff and how I don't want to get into that stuff, and I told him the carpet has cute little animals and trees, etc. now and not what I saw before when I was talking about abuse. He started laughing and said I was "cute" in my resistance. AGGGHHH! Then he said something about the sense I seem to have of being all alone and lonely not matter what or who I am involved with. He said I seem that way with my memories too, and I agreed that I think back now and recall how sad and lonely I felt. I told him that the last time I talked about the abuse stuff he said nothing, and he asked me did I not feel connected to him. He asked was I feeling alone agin in talking about it, and I said I did not feel connected to him when I talked about it, and yes I felt alone. I said I don't know that there is anything in particular I want him to say, and he said to me that it seems I need for him to say something so I don't feel so alone, and I said yes. And he said more than once he was glad I told him this because it is important that I feel a connection with him when I talk about the abuse stuff. Then damn it all, I started crying, and I just hate it when I do that. Sorry. I wasn't going to say anything about today. I just really hurt and feel sad. I had this damn therapy.
RealMe
Posted by Daisym on September 26, 2007, at 0:17:36
In reply to RE: Therapy and now just sad » JoniS, posted by RealMe on September 25, 2007, at 23:13:32
I'm glad you told him too. Sometimes silence from my therapist is fine. Other times, I need to know he is there and can pull me out of the black memories. I asked him once to not abandon me to the silence. So now he will ask questions or even just say "I'm right here. It is OK to be telling." That makes me feel much more secure.
And everytime - everytime - I talk about this stuff in detail. I hurt. And I worry that I've said too much, or too graphically or he hates it...or whatever. So we have a pattern - I tell, I cry, he reminds me this is what we are supposed to be doing, I cry some more, he talks and I tell again. Sigh.
I'm exhausted. But I'm so glad you've found someone safe to work with.
Posted by RealMe on September 26, 2007, at 23:28:24
In reply to RE: Therapy and now just sad » RealMe, posted by Daisym on September 26, 2007, at 0:17:36
Emailed my therapist last night, and much to my surprise he responded. I was very surprised as I did not ask for a response. I could not stop crying last night and told him I think I prefer to be alone, and I would be happy going up to the north woods of Minnesota to live in the boundary waters area with the wolves and the black bears and moose and eagles and loons. Of course especaily the loons. LOL. Actually, I am a big wolf person. They are such gorgeous creatures. Humans are the real predators. HUM.
I also told him I don't want him bad mothing my mother, and this is what he responded to that even though my mother did some very hurtfl things to me (and I guess she was pretty emotionally and mentally abuse), he said everyone deserves compassion. Sometimes when I am really hurting, I told him I think to myself, "I want my mommie." This sounds silly to me now because my mother has been dead for 11 years now. She died from a botched colonoscopy. I actually have no immediate family alive anymore, and that should freak me out, but it does not as everyone in my family was abusive toward me in one way or another, my mother, brother, and father. I am not sorry my brother and father are dead, but for some reason it is a mixed bag with my mother as there were times she could be kind and caring too.
Oh crap; I go on too much. I am not sure I want to be in therapy as it is becoming too painful, and yes I feel alone. I can be alone if I don't think about the past, but thinking about the past is way too painful. I want to put it away in a box again and lock the box and never look in it again.
RealMe
Posted by twinleaf on September 27, 2007, at 0:15:03
In reply to RE: Therapy and now just sad, posted by RealMe on September 26, 2007, at 23:28:24
This is a lot to bear. Can you ask for containment? Just a being- with, so that you don't feel so alone? A lot is coming up for me, too, and I tried to ask for that. I don't know whether it will actually happen, but I think it might help if it did.
Let us know. I will, too.
Posted by RealMe on September 27, 2007, at 0:30:01
In reply to RE: Therapy and now just sad » RealMe, posted by twinleaf on September 27, 2007, at 0:15:03
My therapist is very good, and I know he will do as much as possible with containing, but he also told me that at least for a time, things would spill over out of the therapy hour (45 minutes), but he said there would be a time that thinks could be contained within the therapy time. I know what he means. I think what I will do is try to get into things right away and tell him we need to sort of get onto a lighter topic toward the end. Oh hell, I tried to do that with my previous therapist, and it did not really work. I just don't know.
I think to myself, why bother; I am a psychologist, and so I will just do some self-analysis. I could, but I just wouldn't. Besides, it is always best to have someone who is not part of your life to be of help. I know this. So who am I kidding.
I keep thinking, "Maybe I should ask Fred," one of the psychologists who used to be at Menninger's when I did my postdoctoral training there. Then again, I don't want him to know I am having problems again. He knew of me as a patient and was very pleased to see me as a postdoc fellow, but that was because he and others thought I was doing so well. Actually I was.
Fred used to say that sometimes a person can only do a piece of the work s/he needs to do at a time, and that is okay. The person will come back to do further work later. I guess that's me; I put stuff on hold though I must confess I was never going to return to it. Life is not fair.
Thanks for your response.
RealMe
(OzLand)
Posted by muffled on September 27, 2007, at 11:50:07
In reply to RE: Therapy and now just sad » twinleaf, posted by RealMe on September 27, 2007, at 0:30:01
Realme, I been reading and appreciate your sharing.
Thanks for that.
Take good care.
You seem like a real good person, an amazing person.
M
Posted by JoniS on September 28, 2007, at 8:51:03
In reply to RE: Therapy and now just sad » twinleaf, posted by RealMe on September 27, 2007, at 0:30:01
Hey Real Me OzLand,
I've been away for a while so I'm still trying to catch up on Babble. I just wanted to tell you that I really respect you for how you share and and how you are working on difficulet things. I hope you continue to hang in there because it sounds like you are making good progress (albeit painful) and it sure seems you have a very good T.
Also, FWIW I think you should ask Fred whatever you need to. He seems like a great friend/resource, non-judgmental and caring. It's a little funny that you "don't want him to know you're having problems again" because doesn't everyone have some problems now and then? psychologist aren't immune, are they? Cause if they are, I'm going to school for that ASAP!
I love what you wrote that Fred said: "Fred used to say that sometimes a person can only do a piece of the work s/he needs to do at a time, and that is okay. The person will come back to do further work later." That sounds simple but it sounds very thoughtful and sensitive to me.
Please don't cut yourself down for being a Psychologist and "having problems". You're just one tha tis willing to admit you have stuff to work on, and plugging along!
Hope you have a good weekend.
Take Care
Joni
Posted by RealMe on September 28, 2007, at 21:07:46
In reply to RE: Therapy and now just sad, posted by JoniS on September 28, 2007, at 8:51:03
Thanks JoniS
I wrote some about therapy today on a thread higher up related to RE: Retramatized, CSA Trigger started by Poet. I just said pretty much I felt more connected to my T and why today. I keep half-*ss keep trying to quit therapy, and he keeps bringing me back. I know it isn't the money with him. He has a very small private practice, and his program for young adults that he operates is most of his time. I know he could easily fill my time slots with someone else without hardly blinking.
It always amazes me that he took me on as a patient. He can be so funny at times and so serious at times. With him saying I am "cute" in my resistance and other comments like that, I do realize that he likes me and enjoys working with me. I can feel that he does not want me to be burdened with all the pain anymore too. He was very good and kind and caring today and helped me to see some other connections from the past to the present and that sort of relate to my reaction to him. I am more recently reluctant to get into specifics. I don't want to go through another traumatic cycle here. Thanks, though, and I appreciate your posts.
RealMe
(OzLand)
This is the end of the thread.
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