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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 30. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Happyflower3 on September 23, 2007, at 9:41:11
I don't have any memories of this, but now that I am trained in the signs to look for in a child. I am seeing much of me as a child in the signs and it freaks me out. WOuldn't I have remembered? WOuldn't I have had trouble with sexual intimacy as an adult? I seem too well adjusted as an adult with a healthy sex life, so it doesn't make sense to me.
Posted by sunnydays on September 23, 2007, at 10:07:16
In reply to Wondering if I was SA as a child ** CSA triggers**, posted by Happyflower3 on September 23, 2007, at 9:41:11
Well, any type of abuse really can cause the same sorts of symptoms, especially in an adult, can't it? It's all PTSD, I thought. I don't know. I know I have PTSD and I know a little about trauma's effects, but I'm by no means an expert. If you don't have memories, don't worry about it. If it did happen, the memories will only come when you're ready to handle them, and you have enough on your plate already to think about in T, you don't need to add problems. Good luck.
sunnydays
Posted by Raindancer on September 23, 2007, at 10:28:28
In reply to Wondering if I was SA as a child ** CSA triggers**, posted by Happyflower3 on September 23, 2007, at 9:41:11
Happy, I'm wondering if it could be something else, rather than CSA. These symptoms are often present when there has been some kind of neglect, physical or emotional, at a crucial time in the child's development. For example, when I was nearly two, my older sister, aged six, died of meningitis(my father was away during WW2) and it makes sense that my mother was emotionally traumatised by this and found it hard to be present after this terrible loss. This was not her fault of course, but the effects can stay with us for ever. Just a thought, sometimes its just life taking over, rather than intended abuse.
Congratulations on the grand work you're doing. I love to read your posts.
Rain
Posted by muffled on September 23, 2007, at 11:04:11
In reply to Re: Wondering if I was SA as a child ** CSA trigge » Happyflower3, posted by Raindancer on September 23, 2007, at 10:28:28
I think you would remember HF really.
Unless you were REALLY young.
In which case you would never know.
I show signs too, but I am sure I would remember, or else too young. I had a gynecological condition that could be interpreted either way. But the records are all gone, it was repaired over 25 yrs ago. So i will never know.
I just trying to help my ikid feel better emotionally. There's nothing else I can do.
I hope its safe here....I kinda freaked bout that thing I posted on admin about.
I have turned off my cookies to be safer.
Take care,
M
Posted by antigua3 on September 23, 2007, at 11:39:23
In reply to Re: Wondering if I was SA as a child ** CSA trigge, posted by muffled on September 23, 2007, at 11:04:11
dear sweet muffled,
sometimes we don't remember, and that's ok, because often it is our body or mind's way of protecting us. I'm not directing this at anyone, it's just what happens. But don't freak out, OK, I'm not saying you or anyone else did, I'm just pointing out that amnesia can exist.
antigua
Posted by Happyflower3 on September 23, 2007, at 12:16:57
I can't respond individually right now, as I have to leave soon, but I plan on later. The stuff I remember was being preoccupied with sex at such an early age. Like 2nd grade or so. Maybe it has something to do with hiting puberty at 9. I know I have blocked some of the physical abuse, so I was wondering if I could be blocking the other. I would like to post about my dream later. It doesn't have to do with CSA, but why this thought came up after this dream I am not sure.
What is kinda weird is how you can remember in dreams what parents sounded like. My father passes away in 1999, and I can't remember exactly how he talked, but in the dream, it was sooo clear. So I guess some parts of your brain does remember. I could be dreaming some of this stuff because the reading of fairy tales for college might be triggering some of this stuff. Grimm are violent in nature.
Posted by Maria01 on September 23, 2007, at 13:57:08
In reply to Wondering if I was SA as a child ** CSA triggers**, posted by Happyflower3 on September 23, 2007, at 9:41:11
You mentioned that you seem too well-adjusted as an adult, etc. I wouldn't worry about it...you have enough on your plate. As others have said, maybe some of what you have experienced may be stemming from an equally traumatic event.
I'm of the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" school myself. We all have enough to worry about in life without getting into "what if I was...?" While it's good to ask questions of ourselves, asking those questions too hard may cause us to "remember" things that never really happened. That was at the root of the "recovered memory" controversy in the 90's.
If it still bugs you, you can always address it with your T...
Posted by Maria01 on September 23, 2007, at 13:59:54
In reply to To everyone, posted by Happyflower3 on September 23, 2007, at 12:16:57
Defintely....your pre-occupation with sex could have stemmed from maturing at age 9. Our brains/thought processes change right along with our bodies as we mature. If you were acting out sexually, that might be a different story, but if you were only pre-occupied with sexual thoughts/questions, that's a normal part of growing up, even with puberty at 9.
That also explains why 11-14 boys are little horndogs ;)
Posted by Maria01 on September 23, 2007, at 14:01:46
In reply to Re: To everyone, posted by Maria01 on September 23, 2007, at 13:59:54
I meant to say...that's why some of our male Jr. High classmates were little horndogs at that age and were acting like idiots..i.e., pulling "monthly supplies" out of our purses, backpacks, etc.
Posted by sunnydays on September 23, 2007, at 16:50:18
In reply to To everyone, posted by Happyflower3 on September 23, 2007, at 12:16:57
If it helps you to know this, I am absolutely positive I was not sexually abused (I remember every single other thing that ever happened to me, so I'm quite sure it's nothing something I've repressed) and I too was preoccupied with sex early on. I haven't talked about it with my T (WAY too embarrassing for me!!) but I think it has to do with just wanting some form of closeness with someone and wanting the love that I always found in books and things described as coming with sex. Could this be the case for you too? I really don't know, it's just my perspective. I'm hoping for you it's not a repressed memory.
sunnydays
Posted by RealMe on September 23, 2007, at 23:50:06
In reply to Re: To everyone » Happyflower3, posted by sunnydays on September 23, 2007, at 16:50:18
I would agree with those who said you would remember. It is possible to have repressed some things, but usually one remembers some aspect of it. This is what I have found with people I worked with. Myself, I remember it all but put it in a little box and locked the box with a key so to speak so it would not impact on me. And, it didn't for many, many years. I thought to myself, "Well see, it is not a big deal; it's all in the past." HAH did I fool myself.
It could be any number of things such as feeling you were deprived of attention and love. For a child that is extremely painful. I was never able to block out the physical, emotional, and sexual abuse (diffrent people) but I have always been good at compartmentalizing, and so things get put in emotional drawers which is not so good as the drawer can fall open at the most unexpected times, and then I go into a panic and/or feel very depressed.
Posted by Daisym on September 24, 2007, at 1:43:07
In reply to Re: To everyone » sunnydays, posted by RealMe on September 23, 2007, at 23:50:06
The research shows that memories can be completely repressed, "forgotten" or otherwise split off. Each person is different. Please do not assume that a person "must" or "should" remember it - logic does not apply here. Some people get sexually inhibited from csa and others wildly promiscuous - most people fall in the middle.
Sunny is so right when she said that the symptoms of trauma are all very similiar.
And - it has been my experience that when I've studied something, I see a lot more of it for a time - either in myself or in others. It takes a lot of experience to sort these things out. If you remain worried, please talk to your therapist about it.
Posted by arora on September 24, 2007, at 7:38:12
In reply to Wondering if I was SA as a child ** CSA triggers**, posted by Happyflower3 on September 23, 2007, at 9:41:11
HF-
I don't know- memory is a funny thing... I have big gaps in my childhood memories, (other than feeling sad, and a vague sense of unease) so I can't really say. I have some of the 'symptoms' as well, which freaks me out too.I think that my family was just dysfunctional- trying to look like the all-round normal family but covering up a lot of unhappiness. Appearances and what other people thought was the most important thing.
Maybe we (or our parents) all become so conditioned into covering things up so that they can fit in with the norm, that they can't see what they're hiding might not have even been a big deal as far as others are concerned... but these little hidden things fester away until they really scr*w their children up.(sigh) that's what I hope, anyway.
arora
Posted by muffled on September 24, 2007, at 10:18:23
In reply to Re: Wondering if I was SA as a child ** CSA trigge » Happyflower3, posted by arora on September 24, 2007, at 7:38:12
> I don't know- memory is a funny thing... I have big gaps in my childhood memories, (other than feeling sad, and a vague sense of unease) so I can't really say. I have some of the 'symptoms' as well, which freaks me out too.
**Thats like me. I can't remember being a kid, but if I try I get very anxious and sad.
> I think that my family was just dysfunctional- trying to look like the all-round normal family but covering up a lot of unhappiness. Appearances and what other people thought was the most important thing.**Yeah. I think thats not so uncommmon :-(
> Maybe we (or our parents) all become so conditioned into covering things up so that they can fit in with the norm, that they can't see what they're hiding might not have even been a big deal as far as others are concerned... but these little hidden things fester away until they really scr*w their children up.
*I would show up to the dinner table stone drunk(and leave once I realized I wasn't going to be even moderately straight...) In was only in Gr 7 or so. This happened more than once. My parents never knew....????
My ma found drugs in my room, put them on my dads desk for him to see when he got home. I saw them first, took them back......nothing was ever said...........
Its awonder isn't it?
> (sigh) that's what I hope, anyway.Yeah...I hope too :-(
F*cking SOB I HOPE SO MUCH.
Thats why I scared to go 'there', to look at all the weird inexplicable sh*t in my head :-(
Maybe there's nothing.
God I hope so :-(
I honestly hope I will never know. Its better that way.
I just got to stop messing up :-(
Take care,
M
Posted by RealMe on September 24, 2007, at 20:14:14
In reply to Re: To everyone, posted by Daisym on September 24, 2007, at 1:43:07
Split off or dissociated is different from repressed. I did not mean to imply that one might not remember something. Hell I don't remember some of the things they said I did in the hospital many years ago. I am just saying that the whole notion of repressed memory got a bad rap because there are therapists out there who can plant memories of things that never occured. I have seen it happen when I worked with trauma survivors at Menninger's. I can remember people telling me they did not remember being abused, but everyone tells them they must have been, and so they try hard to remember.
Along these same lines, I have seen the police convince someone they did something they did not do. The mind is an intersting thing, and we have to take care not to plant memories of something not there.
So, I am not implying that anyone here has false memories. I want to make that clear first of all. Second, as I said, split off and/or dissociation occurs all the time and is part of what happens with victims of abuse. This is not the same as having the memory repressed.
For myself, I used to engage a lot in dissocication and splitting off of parts of myself and the memories. So, of course I believe it happens. Just wanted to clarify.
RealME
Posted by DAisym on September 24, 2007, at 20:49:15
In reply to Re: To everyone, posted by Daisym on September 24, 2007, at 1:43:07
I'm not sure I understand - are you saying that memories that are split off are not accessible but if they are repressed they might be? Sorry, it has been a long day. It seems to me that no matter what term we put on it, the memories stay out of reach - we can't see it or make it known to us in a conscious way.
And about planted memories. Yes, there were a few cases but that was 20 years ago now. Most therapists are well trained to not do this, and to not lead or push. Since csa victims were so often made to feel powerless, the last thing you want in therapy is to take their power. I know you know this.
Every time the subject of repressed memories comes up I think to myself - why would anyone make this stuff up? I wish everyday it wasn't my history. Some days I convince myself that I am WRONG. Anyone who knows the shame of it, who has felt the fear of telling -- they know what I mean.
I know you do too. This is just a hard one for me.
Posted by Happyflower3 on September 24, 2007, at 21:02:08
In reply to Realme -, posted by DAisym on September 24, 2007, at 20:49:15
I am so sorry I can't write more, I am exhausted right now and a little emotional from therapy today.
I guess someone said not to worry about something that I don't know for sure, since I do have quite a plateful of stuff to process already. So I am going to let it rest. If the memories are there, I will remember them eventually.
I remember last year when I accidently burned myself with sausage gravy and that caused a flashback of some stuff that I had forgotten or repressed. But the memory of the smells and feelings were there.
Thanks to everyone who read and contributed to this thread, I have learned a lot from all of you.
Posted by muffled on September 24, 2007, at 21:43:15
In reply to Okay, posted by Happyflower3 on September 24, 2007, at 21:02:08
So I maybe said the wrong thing :-(
maybe I just WANT it to be so.
Like w/my inside people.
I denied and deny, and then it slaps me plain as the nose on my face.
So just like I find it nearly impossible to understand that an actual child lives in me, I find it hard to understand how I can't remember stuff.
Or won't.
I run like the wind.
I'm running now :-(
Does anyone who didn't know,now know when you didn't b4?
Like...oh hell.
Sorry if I don't answer, but I AM interested and may look at it later but right now is maybe not the time, and maybe its too triggering in a forum such as this.
I'm kinda lost.
I have found this thread very interesting and I thank HF for starting it and those that participated. Its a REALLY hard topic :-(
M
M
Posted by RealMe on September 24, 2007, at 22:25:47
In reply to Realme -, posted by DAisym on September 24, 2007, at 20:49:15
First, I would disagree that therapists are well trained not to be suggestive to the possibility of repressed memories when nothing happened. As someone who is a therapist, I wish I could agree, but I know of just too many therapists who are not at all knowledgeable about abuse.
The other thing is, I think all memories are accessible under the right circumstances. I learned to do hypnosis when I worked with abuse survivors. I even did self-hypnosis. Mostly we used hypnosis to help a person find their safe place. I had several split off parts that I am now aware of, but to this day I do not recall all of my actions. I probably never will, and I don't think it is that important. I did not abuse anyone in this state, just myself and regressed as well. Dissociation, of course memories from this state can be accessble. I can now tell when I start to dissociate and can sometimes stop it, and sometimes I can't. Have I ever had repressed memories? Yes. Was I ever someone who was not aware that I had been abused. No. I always knew I was and recalled quite a bit, just not everything. That has taken therapy, and since the emotions have been disconnected from the events, my T says this is what has to happen, and I resist it. I don't want to go back and feel how I felt when I was being abused, but he says it is playing itself out in the present too, and so it is important to do so. There have been two times in the past four months that I said okay, and did it. But I don't like doing it. It leaves me in a state that makes it hard for me to go to work afterwards.
RealME
Posted by antigua3 on September 25, 2007, at 8:45:34
In reply to Re: Realme - » DAisym, posted by RealMe on September 24, 2007, at 22:25:47
With all due respect, I don't agree that all memories can be accessed under the right circumstances. Some memories just may never be retrievable, as I've been told by my T and pdoc, because of the circumstances of the events and/or patient, mostly because of the patient. Unless you have 100 years or so to devote to, and i've devoted 17 yrs so far and some memories are just not retrievable--yet, maybe, or not at all, at least for me. They can't be forced, or at least that's the truth I've been told and it's true for me.
Hope all is going well with your new job,
antigua
Posted by frida on September 25, 2007, at 10:34:11
In reply to Re: Realme - » RealMe, posted by antigua3 on September 25, 2007, at 8:45:34
This is such hard, hard stuff. :-(
I've read all the thread and couldn't find the strength to contribute...
but I wanted to say I agree with antigua..I remember my abuse since I was in primary school but have blocked all the previous years...I just have some flashes, painful, horrible, and the pain of the little girl who can't even verbalize what happened and feels horrible shame.
My T has told me that my silence of years in T, how hard it is for me to verbalize it all, this pain so out of...language...makes her feel that the abuse started when I was very,very young.
I have some flashes in kindergarden years and just deep pain I can't put into words.
I know I might never know for sure when exactly it all started...It has taken me seven years almost in T and I still can't verbalize the years of s.a that i do remember...
But i don't think all memories can be accessed...Some people block a lot of it..some remember bits...All the stuff about implanted memories and such....i wish people could realize those are just the fewest cases...but there are much more real cases, of children who are suffering right now and adults who are struggling ...
It is a very delicate subject...Love to everyone,
Frida
Posted by toojane on September 25, 2007, at 16:07:06
In reply to Re: Okay-All, posted by muffled on September 24, 2007, at 21:43:15
> So I maybe said the wrong thing :-(
> maybe I just WANT it to be so.
> Does anyone who didn't know,now know when you didn't b4?Hi Muffled,
Haven't posted in awhile. Don't know if you'll remember me.
I think knowing can be very complicated and that there all different types and ways of knowing.
I had a terrible accident as a child and I can't remember it at all. I know that it happened because I've been told about it and physically there is a piece of myself that is missing because of it. Can't get much more proof than that that something happened. But I don't actually remember it. But in many ways I guess I do because I have terrors and behaviours, things I do and things I won't do that I have (or once had no idea why before therapy) that are so obviously caused by this.
So I guess I do 'know' somehow. It's just not a conscious knowing. It's a remembering that effects me without me actually remembering, if that makes any sense.
Posted by RealMe on September 25, 2007, at 22:58:35
In reply to Re: Realme - » RealMe, posted by antigua3 on September 25, 2007, at 8:45:34
I can't find where I wrote it now, but I did not mean to imply that all memories are accessible. I was meaning more in terms of dissociated memories.
I wrote under another thread here that I do not to this day remember some of the things I did in the hospital in the 80's when I was at Menninger's. I have my records from those years, and even with them to jog my memory, I do not remember regressing and wetting my pants and pooping in my pants. Will I ever remember? Probably not, but I don't know that it is necessary for me to remember. There were other things to that I have no memory of. In fact, the first year there I have very little memory. I also have very little memory of my life when I was age eight, but I do remember the abuse. I am not sure I remember every single detail. I doubt it. So, I am sorry I was not more clear.
RealMe
Posted by RealMe on September 25, 2007, at 23:01:53
In reply to Re: memories.., posted by frida on September 25, 2007, at 10:34:11
I wish planted memories were rare, but I see that the police do it over and over and over again. It is not that hard to convince someone of something not true, especially when that person is under undue stress. And, I am not that confident in all therapists. After what I have seen on this board in terms of therapists people have had, wow; some sound awful.
RealMe
Posted by Cecilia on September 30, 2007, at 6:07:11
In reply to Re: To everyone » Daisym, posted by RealMe on September 24, 2007, at 20:14:14
I was in therapy for 7 years, wasted a huge amount of money and never remembered any "repressed" memories, good, bad or indifferent. I wanted desperately to remember things that would explain all the things that are wrong with me, but never did. At this point I no longer have any desire to recover details of memories, if they exist, I have enough pain in my life, more than enough. But I guess I still would like to get just one memory back that would tell me if I was abused. Not the details, just to know if anything happened. Although then I think, so what, suppose I did get a memory back, nearly half of women were sexually abused in childhood, most of them are "normal", not chronically depressed, anxious, isolated freaks like me. So getting memories back would really explain nothing, maybe better not to know. Cecilia
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