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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Happyflower on May 31, 2007, at 7:48:10
Or should I say emotional? Same thing for me. I know I haven't responded to my above posts, but I read them again today.
I saw my T yesterday morning at the gym. I haven't been there in 2 weeks, and thought I would work out a bit before my physical therapy to loosen up a bit. It was so hard to see him. He looked so good and I felt and looked like crap.
He did look at me and did his salute that he sometimes does, and I waved and tried to smile, but it was kinda forced.I guess part of me, and I did mention this in therapy last week, is that I feel like I am disapointing him because I am not doing well. I know he takes so much pride in helping me, he said once "I did a damn good job with you". But now I am struggling and I feel like he might see it as a reflection of his abilities or something, so I kinda feel guilty for not doing so well. I am sure some of this is my depression speaking. We didn't go into this last week, because so much else was said that was more important, but I am sure he put that idea "on hold" for now.
I just am feeling so weak right now physically. They deceided they needed to be more aggressive with my physical therapy since I am in a very long platau. I am hurting so much, and it is so hard to do the things I love to do. So it makes sense I would be depressed, right? I feel bad physically and I can't be me. Like Gazo said, it sucks donkey butt.
Then this weekend my DH brother had a heart attack, and all weekend we were wondering if we would have to take a long road trip there. Well I am so far behind in laundry, and I just can't do stuff, it was very over whelming thinking about it. He is having open heart surgury, but in 2 months when the damaged part hardens so they can cut it off and do a triple bypass. This had my DH in a bad mood, it is his younger brother, and he doesn't handle stress very well. So that is on my mind. My DH just started to help me out more after last week I told him I am depressed, but now he is in his own world again, which i kinda understand.
So I don't know I feel like my life has been a sh*t sandwich and still is, regardless of what my T says. I know that not all my life sucks, but a lot of it does. Is it a blanket statement saying that when 80% sucks? My T would say well what about the other 20% (not in those terms), and yeah, I can't say my life sucks totally. LOL I should say , yeah, my like USUALLY sucks. Like me telling my T that he is always right, and he says not always, but ususally. It was a joke I know, but can I say my life sucks? Okay, never mind all of this rambling. I can't stop my fingers, they keep going and going.
Well I need to take a shower and get ready. I just don't know what to say today with him. I guess that scares me, it is an open book kinda of session maybe. I am letting him lead, because I can't do it. Maybe that is a good thing? I don't know. If you have read all of this , thanks for listening.
Posted by gardenergirl on May 31, 2007, at 8:16:28
In reply to Feeling scared, T today, lots of rambling talk, posted by Happyflower on May 31, 2007, at 7:48:10
Gosh, with all that going on, I think it's only natural you would feel more depressed. That's all the kind of stuff that would affect me that way, too, especially feeling physically crappy.
I can understand your worry about disappointing your T if you're not doing well, especially after what he said. Try to remember that he may do a very good job, and you may do a very good job with the work, but sometimes life throws curveballs we can't duck or hit out of the park easily. And though that feels lousy at the time, it doesn't negate all your progress, and it doesn't mean that you're not doing something right or something.
Okay, I might be projecting my own stuff into your dilemma, because this is something my T and I talked about just yesterday. I told him that I've come to the conclusion that dealing with recurrent depression is all about disease management. It's just like learning to manage diabetes, and adapting your management of it when circumstances change, i.e. illness, increased stress, etc. In my case, what I meant was that I've gotten better at assessing whether increased depression is biologically related, situational, or "emotional". The better I am at figuring this out, the better I am at addressing it and getting back to feeling well. Still, when another depression rears its ugly head, even though I might be a bit more skilled at dealing with it, maybe, it still feels just as lousy. :(
So I guess what I'm saying is that first, I'm sorry you're going through all that. What a huge load on your plate. And second, it makes perfect sense that you would feel worse at a time like this, and that doesn't mean that either of you aren't still doing a "good job". And finally, you're already doing stuff to address it: going to your session, asking your DH for increased support, recognizing the effects of what's going on around you...that's all good.
Still, I'm sorry you're feeling worse, and I hope you feel better, physically and emotionally very soon.
gg
Posted by sunnydays on May 31, 2007, at 9:12:58
In reply to Feeling scared, T today, lots of rambling talk, posted by Happyflower on May 31, 2007, at 7:48:10
Well, I'm going to congratulate you. Even though you feel like sh*t, you went to the gym. That is so much more than most people would do, and is a great step towards getting rid of the nasty depression - endorphins and all that. I myself have to force myself to exercise on a good day, so I'm impressed you could exercise on a bad day.
I hope you are feeling better soon.
sunnydays
Posted by gazo on May 31, 2007, at 11:25:55
In reply to Feeling scared, T today, lots of rambling talk, posted by Happyflower on May 31, 2007, at 7:48:10
hey cute flower.. smile cuz you can...that's what you told me right? i'm not doing the best but i wanted to support you. You'll feel better at least for a while after you see your T.
((((hf))))
Posted by Happyflower on May 31, 2007, at 12:02:50
In reply to Re: Feeling scared, T today, lots of rambling talk » Happyflower, posted by gardenergirl on May 31, 2007, at 8:16:28
Try to remember that he may do a very good job, and you may do a very good job with the work, but sometimes life throws curveballs we can't duck or hit out of the park easily. And though that feels lousy at the time, it doesn't negate all your progress, and it doesn't mean that you're not doing something right or something.
Wow, okay, this was good! ;-) I guess cognitive therapy works, eh? Okay, you are so right about this, I was just looking at it wrong because my thinking is kinda messed up at the moment. Okay that takes care of the guilt. Poof and itsn't gone, thanks! ;-)
I told him that I've come to the conclusion that dealing with recurrent depression is all about disease management. It's just like learning to manage diabetes, and adapting your management of it when circumstances change, i.e. illness, increased stress, etc. In my case, what I meant was that I've gotten better at assessing whether increased depression is biologically related, situational, or "emotional". :(
You are right about this. Knowing what kind of depression it is. Mine is mostly situational, bad marriage, chronic pain, heart attachs,and money problems. It seems like I should know better, I know the signs and nonmedical ways of dealing with it. But geeze, when you are actually involved yourself , not looking at a cclient, it is totally different and the amount of training and school, doesn't keep it from happening.
Wow, this explain on why T's are fully trained to help with others problems, they still struggle with their own stuff. It is like a heart surgeon knows how to save people with heart diease, but it doesn't mean they won't have heart problems.
This also explain my sister in law, who used to be a nurse. Why didn't she see her classic signs of heart attack in her own husband. It was so obvious. But she didn't and you would think that she would think of this automatically with her training. But when things come to your own life, everyone has to deal with it.
> So I guess what I'm saying is that first, I'm sorry you're going through all that. What a huge load on your plate. And second, it makes perfect sense that you would feel worse at a time like this, and that doesn't mean that either of you aren't still doing a "good job". And finally, you're already doing stuff to address it: going to your session, asking your DH for increased support, recognizing the effects of what's going on around you...that's all good.Thank you so much for saying that. I get it , I really do. Thanks for your support too. ((((GG)))
>
>
Posted by Happyflower on May 31, 2007, at 12:05:52
In reply to Re: Feeling scared, T today, lots of rambling talk » Happyflower, posted by sunnydays on May 31, 2007, at 9:12:58
Thanks sunnydays,
I think the fact I have't felt physically up to it , it did feel a little bit better after I was done. I was working out everyday, so probably didn't help when I stopped. My T believes in exercising especially at keeping mild depression away.
I hope I feel better someday too. Thanks!
Posted by Happyflower on May 31, 2007, at 12:08:02
In reply to Re: Feeling scared, T today, lots of rambling talk » Happyflower, posted by gazo on May 31, 2007, at 11:25:55
Hey Gazo,
Thank you for your support, I know you are going through some tough stuff of your own, and being able to support me also, shows how strong and wonderful you really are. ;-) Thanks for caring about me.
Posted by Happyflower on May 31, 2007, at 12:48:34
In reply to Feeling scared, T today, lots of rambling talk, posted by Happyflower on May 31, 2007, at 7:48:10
I was so scared today, but at least I didn't throw up on the way there. It was sunny out today and walking by the flower containers in the city was nice to see on my way to see my T.
When I got there, he switched some stuff around in his office, and I noticed right away. My T also got rid of all his fake flowers too. LOL I told him a long time ago, he was too hip to have those ugly flowers, he has real plants that are much better. He asked me if I wanted a cutting of one of his plants. I said maybe sometime.
My T then told me he thought about me as he was watering his trumpet vine this morning. How sweet to hear when they say that. He said it was growing really stong like me and he asked if it would flower this year. He is such a sweetheart of a guy. ;-) Now who wouldnt' feel better when someone says all of that to you? Okay, maybe I am easy. LOLWe talked about so much. We talked about how chronic pain is like one of life's big stressors and how depression is likely from anyone. But yet I have a lot of those big stressor too, not just one, so he said it is understandable. He really wants me to try to exercise like I used to, even if it is for only 20 min of cardio, he believes this keeps me up. He is right I know, but it is so hard right now. The elipitical isn't bad on my body joints and muscles, and I still get in the cardio, which helps defends against depression. My T thinks me having chronic pain and stopping exercising is contributing to my depression in major ways. I know he is right, so I will try.
We talked about my marriage and how these current stresses effect it, does it bring us together, or put a bigger wedge between us. I said I am kinda glad my DH is removed from me about his brothers heart attach, at least he isn't nasty to me. But I told my T that the marriage is over, I have known that for such a long time now. I said but it sucks because I feel trapped. Than my T said, well you are trapped, at least momentary. Wow, talk about valadation. ;-)
We talked about me learning guitar (he knows how to play). He thinks because of my music ablility, I will get frusterated with the guitar, because I won't be able to sound good as fast as I want to and not like it. I asked him, so you calling me a perfectionist? (I know I am when it comes to music, lol) He said no. LOL He went on to explain on why I might not like it. (geeze, so much for encouragement, well maybe he wasn't doing reverse psych on me). Well I said well maybe the trumpet isn't my real instrument, and maybe I will start playing and really be good and love it. I said playing the guitar isn't limited by my asthma, and it less physical. Then he brought up, yeah and you can sing along too. I said yeah, I don't sing. I told him about my phobia (gulp). I said well we will be learning the do, ra , me, thingie, and then he started to sing do, a dear, a female dear, etc. Oh my! I wanted to shrink in my chair.
We talked about Paul McCartney and how he was so talented in music and can play just about any instrument. He told me about how the none of the Beatles could play piano, but in 3 years, Paul learned to play and compose music. But my T said it took 3 years, NOT just a summer. Well then I said, well you have to start somewhere. ;-) He said yes.
We talked about my new major in college, and he supports it. We talked about my classes next fall, and he thought it was a good idea that I am keeping it simpler than last session because of everything else. But warned me that school is going to get tougher especially grad school. I said I know that, but I feel like I am doing the right thing. I like school. He feels that most people that don't even end up doing what they went to school for, never regret their education. Besides I can always change my mind. LOL
So I know we talked about a lot of stuff, oh, yeah, my babble meet. LOL He loved hearing about that. We talked about me drinking and jammer and KK teaching me how to do shots. He thought that was really funny. I said yeah, we were quite a bunch of silly girls. I said we even was compairing bra sizes and all. LOL He about feel out of his chair laughing. ;-)
So I see him in 2 weeks, I think I can do that, that is the old schedule. He isn't pressuring me to go longer, and I feel good about that. I believe he know that I need to see him right now. It feels good that I feel understood by him, supported by him, and that he really cares about me. That helps, it really does while going through all of the hell I am going through. ((((my T))))
But I feel like need a nap.
Posted by muffled on May 31, 2007, at 13:04:23
In reply to My session today ;-), posted by Happyflower on May 31, 2007, at 12:48:34
Posted by gazo on May 31, 2007, at 13:30:52
In reply to My session today ;-), posted by Happyflower on May 31, 2007, at 12:48:34
i am so glad for you girl. i *knew* you would be boosted by this. Now, print this out and add in anything and everything else about the session that made you feel good, right down to the twinkle in his eye or whatever. Then keep it somewhere H or kids won't see it but take it out often and read it. Think of it like reading daily affirmations
so so so happy for you
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on June 1, 2007, at 13:42:37
In reply to Re: My session today ;-) » Happyflower, posted by gazo on May 31, 2007, at 13:30:52
trumpeter flowers
that is your essence, you know?falling out of his chair laughing (I hope it wasn't about me and Kk's little debate and challenge!)
He's probably right about the exercise. You know, it doesn't have to be a big deal though. Even a ride around town on your bike or walking fast around the high school track will give you a sense of accomplishment and put you more in tune with your body.
And now for the meat of my post
There is a book that my T recommended to me "Radical Acceptance" which you can order from Amazon or your local bookstore.
In a highly relevant section on physical pain there are a few useful exercises on learning to live with pain. I have suffered from chronic pain in the past and found relief through alternative therapies focusing on body awareness and learning about our habits of how we hold and use our body.
Back to the exercises on managing to live with physical pain. Here are a few nuggets to think about
1) pain is a condition of being human. You are human (surprise!)
2) suffering is exacerbated by resisting pain.
-this leads to tension
-this leads to bad feelings about our bodies and our abilities to control our bodies
-this leads to ignoring our bodies when they are crying out for attention the most
3) the acceptance part- I think you can manage a few moments of this as you do different tasks around the house. It will only take a few moments
-pause
-do a scan of your body from crown to pinky toe: what hurts the most, what parts are tense, what parts make you mad, what parts feel good, what parts are you neglecting
-go to the place where your body hurts the most: tell your pain "I am here. I am listening to you. I am not ignoring or fighting you. We will get through this together. I accept you. You are a part of me, and I invite you to become part of my experience.Some people can carve out some quiet time during the day to meditate on these ideas. To allow the pain to just be a part of you, just like your little toe. Don't just visually LOOK at your little toe, experience it through living THROUGH it. Imagine that there is a pulse coursing through the toe. Imagine that there are bones and tendons that are gently connected, and working together.
We "practice" meditation. There is no such thing as "mastering" these feelings. It is only a process of learning more about ourselves, and accepting whatever sensations come to rest in our minds and our bodies.
Depression:
There is part of your mind that is hurting. Can you just "be" with your hurt? Can you NOT resist it, but rather LISTEN to what it is telling you? This is what psychotherapy does (on a good day!). Rather than resisting our feelings and thoughts, we just let them spill forth, and allow our therapist to become a "container" for our thoughts and feelings. To help us listen to ourselves, and to cast a new light on things. This is why we pay them so much. Because they can shine a light that will help us find the path that is surest and clearest.The path your therapist is helping you discover is not always straight. There are places where you are going to have to jump over gullies. places where you will have to question your guide and maybe decide on your own which fork to take.
I wish you all the best, HappyFriend, and I'm sorry this post is so long.
Sometimes it's SO hard to process complicated information when we are depressed.
And one final question for you:
Have you ever felt like this before?
Is this your first brush with "major depression"?I understand your fear, your bewilderment of "how could this happen to ME?
If you have struggled before, tell yourself quietly "I have been here. I know that I survived before. I know more than I ever knew before. I will make it through this challenge and be stronger for it"
-Ll
Posted by Happyflower on June 2, 2007, at 18:24:18
In reply to Happyflower- LONG. sorry » gazo, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on June 1, 2007, at 13:42:37
Wow, Llurpsie,
I am trying to understand what you are saying. My mind is a little mushy lately. The mediataion I do is different I think. I focus on relaxing all things that are tense, relaxing, stay with my pbreathing, not letting my mind wonder. But I think that is different in what you were talking about. In yoga they call it the dead mans pose.
I wish I could ignore the pain, but it is constant going from bad to worse, then I start all over again with physical therapy.
Now one thing that did help last Friday at my appointment. They did accupuncture again, it has been several months since they did, and it was amazing this time. I felt better than I have for months. I feel good today too, I still hurt, but not as bad. He put over 40 needles into me, then I had a neck massage for 15 min. This Monday they are going to do accupuncture again and I get 30 min. massage! I could even hook the back of my bra today and it didn't hurt!
So I think just feeling better has helped my mood today. I exercised 15 min. My son was in a Yugi gi Oh tournament today and I took my daugher shopping for some beads to make some hemp anklets and braclets! I had a good time, I kinda hurt , but I took a nap, and I feel fine now.
I made taco salad today and used corn chex to make it healthier. That is the first food that I liked in weeks.
Posted by Happyflower on June 2, 2007, at 18:25:18
In reply to Re: Happyflower- LONG. sorry, posted by Happyflower on June 2, 2007, at 18:24:18
This is the end of the thread.
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