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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by gazo on April 14, 2007, at 0:06:21
it's 2am and i am just sobbering up...again. i left an important meeting today to go to the bathroom and fell asleep on the couch in the lounge. Fortunaetly it was a large meeting and i don't think anyone noticed i was missing. woohoo.. let's hear it for sucking!
didn't make it home from the office till 9pm and was drunk an hour later. yay!
i see my T monday.. last time i was drunk an hour after leaving his office. :o(
the pressure is getting to me.
i am struggling to do well...honest. i drink to stay alive frankly. It's not so smart but the lesser of evils.
i struggle a lot lately with suicidal thoughts... bad ones. worse than usual. My moods are everywhere... i am more unstable than i have been in years. i am pissed at my pdoc so i am not taking his advice. i am weaning off my meds instead... and no, that is not for attention. i am sick of him controlling me. Pulling that father figure crap.
every minute that i am not engaged in something i am trying to work out the details of my plan. i have some things i have no answers for and that stops me. i see fewer and fewer reasons to just fight this.
i am safe for now. i made a promise.
but i seem to be obsessed.
things are going horribly wrong it seems.
bipolar disorder sucks BTW. It robs me of my ability to make good decisions. I mean, i feel i am making the best choices i can but i have no way to know... and so i second guess everything i do.
my pdoc asked me if i was sleeping with random strangers and all i could say was "not yet."
if this is my life... if this is the true reality of who i am... then WHY would anyone choose it? why would anyone keep doing this?
i keep going. i stay alive. but i just don't know why anymore. with everything happening in my life right now my pdoc feels that meds can't really fix things... not to mention that his scripts are among the crap on my car floor.
what is the *real* reason to keep going? honest. i am not christian, so none of that eternal stuff means much for me.
anyone?
Posted by muffled on April 14, 2007, at 0:28:01
In reply to let's hear it for self-destruction!! ***trigger**, posted by gazo on April 14, 2007, at 0:06:21
I keep going cuz of my kids.
I keep goinf cuz i do have some good times.
I keep going in the hopes I can help by easing others pain.
I keep going cuz I seem to have eternal hope that there is light at the end of the tunnel.
I keep going, cuz I don't actaully REALLY want to be dead. I just want to stop the hurting.
I keep going cuz I DUNNO what happens when you die, and I sure as sh*t don't want to rot in hell for sure if there happens to be one....Gazo, I am an alcoholic. I don't know whether you are. I DO know that the alcohol made my mental/emotional probs better for awhile....but then it stopped working and made them so much terribly worse.
Alcohol really messes with meds....
And if you have a medical condition that can be helped with the correct meds(and no other drugs/alcohol mixed in), then thats a thing to do. Sucks, but if it helps, its worth it, cuz feeling good feels so good. Feeling OK feels so good. Feeling a little more stable feels so good.
Ending it all is not a good idea. Its a nasty business on SO many ways.....
I almost did, but I am SO glad I am here. Went thru hell for a bit, but after being in hell for so long I was pretty much used to it....but now I do OK. Still struggle, but glad I am alive, so glad I didn't pull that trigger. So if it gets to that last point....please reach out IRL and let others help you. I'm glad I did.
Gazo, you come across as a very nice person, I like you....I hope you can feel better soon.
Muffled
Posted by gazo on April 14, 2007, at 1:38:43
In reply to Re: let's hear it for self-destruction!! ***trigger** » gazo, posted by muffled on April 14, 2007, at 0:28:01
yeah...it was a couple of bottles of wine posting. i don't feel quite as bad as that sounded. i just get frustrated.
i know i probably sound like an alcoholic, my behaviour lately isn't ideal for sure. Generally though, when things are good, i rarely drink.
here is exactly what is happening... the drinking was what i did years ago during some very bad times... it was all i could do to cope. Now, i am facing dealing with those things in therapy... AND i have other major pressures. My brain has taken me back onto old familiar roads. That is why i am doing these things now. That is why other bad coping mechanisms are calling me too.
THAT is why i got my T to move me to weekly appts.
i know there are reasons to keep going. i have people i love.
i hope i don't scare anyone... i need to write to get it out... it helps. As long as i am writing i will be ok.
Posted by Honore on April 14, 2007, at 5:29:10
In reply to let's hear it for self-destruction!! ***trigger**, posted by gazo on April 14, 2007, at 0:06:21
Gazo,sounds like you like to play the rebel, or at least to cast yourself as that, to make it seem better, more like playing with fire, and less like being irrational, and not well.
If you wean off your meds, because you're mad at your pdoc,so as to deny him the power to define what you do by what he wants you on-- I'm not making any new points by noting that you're still letting him control you. Doing what he says, or flouting his advice are pretty much the same-- one feels a lot more powerful and devil-may-care, but it's just as defined by what he says. Just as far from independence as submitting per se.
Sounds like you need the meds. Better to think it through and not throw the few things that help out the window. Are you sure you aren't enjoying being the "bad girl" just a little too much, when indulging that phantasy self really is self-destructive, not romantically, but possibly all too unpleasantly?
I like you gazo. You're putting out lots of energy, making lots of attempts, good and not-sogood, to make connections, stay attached. But then with theother hand, you seem to take pleasure in the idea of tossing it all out in some grand gesture.
The grandest gesture of all is to submit to the tough or grueling struggle of everyday. Doesn't feel so grand, but I have to agree with whoever said it is.
Honore
Posted by gazo on April 14, 2007, at 8:19:09
In reply to Re: let's hear it for self-destruction!! ***trigg, posted by Honore on April 14, 2007, at 5:29:10
wow Honore... i thank you for your honesty. That took a lot of nerve to say so bluntly, and i am glad you did. You are right in a lot of what you say.
i get caught in this circle and can't find my way out. It's patterns of behaviour i learned to cope years ago... but this is NOT years ago. i just seem to not be able to stop it somehow.
the meds... you're right. Either way it comes back to what he said... and i know that in there somewhere he is trying to protect me. He cares a lot about me. Wednesday ws just such a $h1tty appt.
when it comes down to it i am afraid.. afraid of him being right and that the BP is raising it's head right now. It's easy to take meds and admit being BP when you feel in control.
being the bad girl is my defensive mechanism.. i show the world how tough or bad i can be instead of how scared and hurting i am. It's what i do to keep my mind from going there. i have to sometimes because i do not have the skills to go there yet. Drinking or other risk behaviours are DOING something... anything. There aren't too many people who post here who don't have maladaptive mechanisms of some sort.
part of what i say here is in disbelief at how big a mess i am rapidly making of everything. My current situation leaves me vulnerable to bad coping mechanisms and my BP is helping me be more impulsive... not the best combination.
do you think i am faking it? or that i just do it with every conscious intent of making life worse? i'm not mad, i am truly asking.
because it isn't that way. Something happens in my brain and i need to escape.. by the time i realize that it was a bad idea, it's too late. Do you think i "enjoy" it because i do it, or because i post about it?
i am trying to find other ways. Posting here is one, keeps me occupied. i hang out with friends when possible. i write my T.
maybe i should just post less about the negative stuff and just stick to the positive.
i am going to an award dinner next week... being held in part for me. i also have a public event for work that i do... i can't really explain more. But i do good work. i'll actually have to clean up and look respectable! i have to be careful what i say so that i can't be identified. In contrast to the way i am screwing up right now, i have actually worked very hard to build a career and i am in the upper level of what i do. i present next week. Maybe there is a way that sometime i can show you guys without identifying myself.
you're right Honore. i won't post about that stuff any more. All of babble doesn't need to repeatedly hear about me falling on my face again. i'll try to stick to more positive things to post about.
Posted by antigua on April 14, 2007, at 8:43:29
In reply to Re: let's hear it for self-destruction!! ***trigg » Honore, posted by gazo on April 14, 2007, at 8:19:09
Yes, Honore was being honest with you and she had lots of good points, but... as you said you are dealing with things in the only way you have learned how.
but I recognize somewhere in there that you know that these aren't good coping skills and you are seeking to find healthier ones. For me, it took me so long to find where the self-destruction was coming from. For me, I discovered that I get to a point where there's no turning back; I can't stand the pain anymore and I proceed down a path I know is wrong, but I can't stop. I even thought that now that I recognized that point, I would be able to stop. Well, I recently hit that point (over something my pdoc had said), I recognized where it was coming from, and I still took the "low" road. I stopped right away before it became dangerous, but the fact that I had hit that point was the important thing--it literally took me over and while my pdoc would say that I should have known better (and I did), I shouldn't have let my response be an old coping mechanism.
Easy for him to say, I might add. Just because we know doesn't always mean we can do it. But I've found the more we can do it, the easier it becomes.
About the meds. I, too, in my little girl way, thought I was punishing my pdoc by cutting back on my meds. He let me know in no uncertain (and hurtful, I might add) terms that this had no effect on him. And he was right. I didn't stop my meds but I took them down on my own.
so maybe you go back on your meds. You don't have to prove to anyone here that you are a successful career woman. I believe every word of it. But we don't want you to hurt yourself, we really don't. I don't. Take hold of yourself, if you can, and find your way back before you hurt yourself. If you can't, get some help, ask for help.
I understand exactly what you're doing, and you're right, it's a coping mechanism. Sometimes the pain is just too great, or at least it is for me. I'm not perfect, I haven't figured it all out, but I know the downward spiral can be very, very bad and I don't want you to go there. I'm not proving anything to anyone when I do this, and I know this, but I still go there when I know I shouldn't. It's not easy; it's easier for me to let go sometimes, to just stop struggling, but it's too dangerous for me. I always think, well I'll show THEM (T and pdoc), but maybe that's still my little girl screaming for attention. I want them to care and to love me and when I think they don't, I take it out on myself.
please take care of yourself, and think about going back on those meds, o.k.?
love,
antigua
Posted by antigua on April 14, 2007, at 8:51:38
In reply to Re: let's hear it for self-destruction!! ***trigg » gazo, posted by antigua on April 14, 2007, at 8:43:29
Posted by gazo on April 14, 2007, at 9:21:25
In reply to Re: let's hear it for self-destruction!! ***trigg » gazo, posted by antigua on April 14, 2007, at 8:43:29
god...babble is a wonderful place.
do you have a dx?
i struggle with the dx sometimes. i went off meds for three years once. Accepting that i can be pulled around by an illness sucks.
i suppose it is trying to punish the pdoc in a way.. the thought for me is "... screw him. If he's going to be that way then i see no reason to believe whatever else he has to say..." It's like if he says soemthing that pisses me off i discount the rest of what he has to say too. He gave me a hard time about therapy.. don't think he meant to exactly but that was the result. It made me so mad.
you're right. It's not going to ruin his day if i don't take the meds.
i haven't gone off them. i've just been tapering down when i am supposed to be ramping up. He's trying to stop the cycling before it really takes off. Part of me just wants to give into it. i mean, damn... hypomania feels sooooo good. For those of you aren't BP.. imagine you could feel the best you could feel, and you loved every minute of everything. Food tastes better, colours are richer. It's hard to resist..
you said it exactly. Coping. Something takes over and it is trying in it's weird way to keep me alive. It's trying to protect me from the pain.
There is a crisis building in my life that i cannot escape. That is what is driving the behaviours. It's going to happen. i am working with my T to prepare for it as best i can.
thanks for believing me about the good stuff. It's true. My friends say i am very driven.. and i am. But that also means that i do everything with a big bang...including falling on my face.
i am comforted that you understand.. but i am sad that you do. It's not a thing i wish you had to know so well.
i have some hope that as i come to feel secure with my relationship with my T some of this pressure will subside. Right now i don't know if he will stick around or what.
thanks for being so thoughtful in your reply. It matters
Posted by muffled on April 14, 2007, at 10:14:23
In reply to Re: let's hear it for self-destruction!! ***trigg » antigua, posted by gazo on April 14, 2007, at 9:21:25
WOW. Seriously cool thread.
Lotsa good stuff in there for me too.
And Gazos amazing post to me in another thread.
You got ALOT of insight Gazo. And obvo you are not alone in your behaviours.
There does seem to be a point of no return, least thats what I THOT. And it sure as hell feels like it.Like I KNOW I shouldn't, my inside kid is screaming, but its just inevitable....I HAVE to do it or I will die of hurt. I HAVE to make it stop. But logically we should be able to stop ourselves. In fact one time I was halfway on a tear and phoned my T cuz i knew it was gonna escalate even more and she told me I needed to keep myself safe for my kids. She knows I would do ANYthing for my kids, even stop my slide. And I did. So supposedly its possible.......
Just something to keep in mind.....
Anyhow I have to run, my kids got baseball!!!
Take care all,
And I hope things go OK for you Gazo, its so hard when you in the middle of it all, hard to see, but it sounds like you working hard. Proud to know you Gazo.
Muffled
Posted by gazo on April 14, 2007, at 10:46:25
In reply to Re: let's hear it for self-destruction!! ***trigg » gazo, posted by muffled on April 14, 2007, at 10:14:23
>I HAVE to do it or I will die of hurt..
well, that part i know is a lie we tell ourselves. Feeling like i will die from fear or agony is bad. No doubt. But that ain't it. Lately my fear has been about actually dying. There is something that happens in me that is hard to describe.. my pdoc saw it first hand and was really shocked. There is a point where i would do anything to make it stop, and THAT is what scares me. The behaviours now are basically meant to keep myself from reaching that other point.
it's hard to even talk about... there is no conscious choice being made when i hit that point. i wish i were just exaggerating. My pdoc was completely astounded.
i don't know why that happens..not yet anyway. And it will take some work to build a safety net or zone for me to even consider looking at that.
but today i am chilling. Gotta run some errands. Tonight will be tough. Going to a birthday bash. I'm broke so i can't drink a lot. Shakin my money maker oughta be fun though.
you know.. i got a tattoo a while back.. for bravery. i knew i was heading into a deep woods and i wanted a visual, constant reminder that i needed to be brave. Every day i see it.
Posted by antigua on April 14, 2007, at 11:27:24
In reply to Re: let's hear it for self-destruction!! ***trigg » muffled, posted by gazo on April 14, 2007, at 10:46:25
"it's hard to even talk about... there is no conscious choice being made when i hit that point. i wish i were just exaggerating. My pdoc was completely astounded"
you've said it all right here; it's about making the unconscious conscious!
have a good day; I'm off to a BB tournament!
antigua
Posted by Poet on April 14, 2007, at 13:19:46
In reply to let's hear it for self-destruction!! ***trigger**, posted by gazo on April 14, 2007, at 0:06:21
Hi Gazo,
Right now what keeps me going is getting that job I wanted/needed so badly. Though jobs are also what motivates me to completely self-destruct. Damned if I have one, damned if I don't have one. Though so far, so good.
I don't think I've gotten drunk within an hour of coming home from work or my T's office, but definitely within three hours. I've told my T that I should just drink while I'm there. She's says that's a boundary issue and would reflect badly on her as a therapist. Though if I use my flask shaped like a cell phone she might not even know, so would that count against her? Hold, on T, gotta take this important call, swallow.
Seriously, what keeps me going is that I have got a job. If I lose the job, I will lose it. My T has told me millions of times that I need to find other things to want to live for. The usual, think of your husband, friends, cats just doesn't work for me, it's work that works for me, so to speak. I think what keeps you going is different for everyone.
Poet
Posted by gazo on April 14, 2007, at 16:20:53
In reply to Re: let's hear it for self-destruction!! ***trigger** » gazo, posted by Poet on April 14, 2007, at 13:19:46
>I don't think I've gotten drunk within an hour of coming home from work or my T's office, but definitely within three hours. I've told my T that I should just drink while I'm there. \Though if I use my flask shaped like a cell phone she might not even know, so would that count against her? Hold, on T, gotta take this important call, swallow.
poet, you are a riot. i like that :o)
the drinking after my appt was not a normal thing..kinda fell into it. With your temper and desire for liquid therapy i think we have a lot in common. i haven't really found my *thing.* My dogs are what does it right now.. because i don't have a way to be sure they'd be cared for.
you could always take irish coffee in a travel mug. ;o) If she objects throw a pillow.
i think my T is not going to be thrilled knowing i left and went drinking. i don't know him well enough to know how he will react.
i am so glad the job is working out.. why do you suppose it also causes you to go on self-destruct?
Posted by gazo on April 15, 2007, at 1:00:30
In reply to let's hear it for self-destruction!! ***trigger**, posted by gazo on April 14, 2007, at 0:06:21
you know? i am not very happy about some things. i do NOT enjoy being the "bad girl." My life is full of pain and if anyone wants to think i enjoy it they can come and spend some time with me and see how much fun it is.
do i enjoy posting about it? no, not really. i do get a lot out of it though. i get to re-examine things and get it out of my head and get feedback.
there really isn't anything i enjoy about it. i see irony in it. i see black humour.
You see...for all my brave words, and for all the hope i put into today... for all my good intentions and supposed insights... it's 2:49am and i just got in from the club scene. i don't need to elaborate i am sure.
and whether the criticisms of me are true or not, the pain i live in is very true. If you don't walk this road don't tell me how to.
the small victory is that i am not completely wasted... i drank an awful lot and partied and danced.. but at some point i decided i'd better go home beofre things got bad and so i did.
it hurts a lot to be criticized for doing what i do, or posting about it. i don't do this stuff to "be" some role...i just try to survive.
i stood there in a club that was packed with people of every description.. and i was very aware of how alone i was.
life is hard.
Posted by antigua on April 15, 2007, at 9:04:30
In reply to Re: let's hear it for self-destruction!! ***trigg, posted by gazo on April 15, 2007, at 1:00:30
I hope you didn't think I was criticizing you. If you did, I am truly sorry. I would feel terrible if I had done anything to make you feel worse.
antigua
Posted by muffled on April 15, 2007, at 13:11:16
In reply to Re: let's hear it for self-destruction!! ***trigg, posted by gazo on April 15, 2007, at 1:00:30
>The grandest gesture of all is to submit to the tough or grueling struggle of everyday.
*Sigh as long as we live, that is what we do.
So I not so sure what that saying means?
Is it just some way of saying, don't kill yourself?
Am I dense or what?
Muffled
Posted by Poet on April 15, 2007, at 13:53:28
In reply to Re: let's hear it for self-destruction!! ***trigg » Poet, posted by gazo on April 14, 2007, at 16:20:53
Hi Gazo,
I guess the only way to know how your T will react to your drinking after therapy is when you tell him. It isn't a normal thing for me either, just when I have a really stressful session. When I tell my T she kind of sighs and gives me one of her looks of concern, and then we talk about why I thought self-medication would help me feel better.
My job self destruction is because I base my self-esteem on career. The right job=Poet being proud of herself. No job or boring mindless job=Poet is a big fat failure. As I told my T before I got this last job, some things are worth dying over.Poet
Posted by gazo on April 15, 2007, at 15:03:01
In reply to Re: let's hear it for self-destruction!! ***trigg » gazo, posted by antigua on April 15, 2007, at 9:04:30
Posted by gazo on April 15, 2007, at 15:34:15
In reply to Grandest gesture? *suicide trigger?*, posted by muffled on April 15, 2007, at 13:11:16
Posted by gazo on April 15, 2007, at 15:42:20
In reply to Re: let's hear it for self-destruction!! ***trigg » gazo, posted by Poet on April 15, 2007, at 13:53:28
does it bother you that it is that way? i mean, you know you equate your worth to work...does that bother you or does it feel ok? i don't know that anyone could say it's right or wrong.. my inclination would be to say that you shouldn't think that way... but we all equate ourselves with something.
in an ideal world we would measure ourselves by multiple things, lacking in any one wouldn't destroy us. But the world i live in is not ideal. i know i measure myself by things which are relatively fragile.
we shall see what he says tomorrow. i don't think he would be upset with me either way. he knows what my life is like. He knows i don't do this to impress anyone.
Posted by Dinah on April 22, 2007, at 0:48:30
In reply to Re: let's hear it for self-destruction!! ***trigg, posted by Honore on April 14, 2007, at 5:29:10
> But then with theother hand, you seem to take pleasure in the idea of tossing it all out in some grand gesture.
Even if your overall intent is to be helpful, please be careful not to jump to conclusions or to post anything that could cause others to feel accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Dr. Bob is always free to override deputy decisions. His email is on the bottom of each page. Please feel free to email him if you believe this decision was made in error.
Dinah, acting as deputy to Dr. Bob
Posted by Honore on April 22, 2007, at 7:40:55
In reply to Please be sensitive » Honore, posted by Dinah on April 22, 2007, at 0:48:30
I'm sorry if anyone was hurt by what I said. I can honestly say that my comments were meant in a symphathetic way.
If there were hurtful, or missed the mark, I ceertainly regret it.
Best, Honore
Posted by Dinah on April 22, 2007, at 8:19:23
In reply to Re: Please be sensitive » Dinah, posted by Honore on April 22, 2007, at 7:40:55
This is the end of the thread.
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