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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Racer on March 16, 2006, at 12:17:56
I'm running into trouble, with someone I care about who is going through a very bad time. I feel guilty about not doing enough for her, not making things better for her, being there enough for her to lean on.
On the other hand, I know that I need to work on boundaries with her, because she's looking for a rescuer. I can't rescue her from her life, because the problems are both real, and her responsibility to address. I can help by offering suggestions, feedback, a certain amount of sympathy and support. I cannot fix her life.
I feel guilty about it, though. Especially because my heart really is breaking for her, and I can put myself in her place so easily. And, when I can feel myself in her place, it's so painful to try to set limits. I feel as though I'm abandoning her. (Which, by the way, I think is coming largely from her. She does rather convey the sense that I "should" be doing more to support her no matter what she does, or how destructive I think what she's doing is for her.) And this is despite little things like, when I don't give her quite what she's looking for, she lashes out at me.
One of the latest was that she suggested using our address for her treatment, so that she could register in our county which has more extensive mental health resources. When I told her that I dind't think that would fly with my husband, I got a mild verbal hand slap -- followed a short while later by a slap that was clearly meant to hurt more than it did.
I'm too selfish to want to use much more of my therapy time discussing all this. I do care about her enough that I'm not going to abandon her. But I really need to set limits, and I need to learn how to cope with her reactions to those limits. (She has a way of flying from one extreme to another, and I'm great, her lifeline, her savior, her best friend -- until suddenly I'm totally screwed up, or why should anyone listen to me, or I'm hardly in a position to offer anyone advice. The one thing I've got to protect me right now is that I do sound just enough like her mother that she wants to put me in her mother's place a bit, which means she doesn't want to totally alienate me.)
So far, I'm trying to limit telephone time, so that I don't get overwhelmed. I'm also trying to offer constructive feedback, of the "what benefit will you get from [x]" variety, as well as concrete information, things like "this is the number for a place that offers low cost therapy" etc. I'm also trying to shift some of the contact into my terms, by being the one to initiate contact more, so that there are fewer long rambling messages on my voicemail, and so that she doesn't get to feeling as though I'm avoiding her calls. (Mostly I am...) I'm trying to discourage the talk about "I wouldn't do anything to kill myself, but I wouldnt' get out of the way of a bus, either..." Those not quite threats of not quite suicide. And I am trying to do what I can, but as what I offer more than being pulled into it.
What makes it so very hard, though, really is the amount of empathy involved. I can feel what I would feel in her place, and I know that I would be absolutely devastated, and desperate for support and contact. I know she's lonely, and I know how painful that sort of loneliness is. Every time I tell myself that it's not my responsibility, I think of how I would feel if someone were saying this about me. How I would feel, in her position, if other people weren't there to offer support. And that keeps me pretty well hooked.
Can anyone offer any advice, any experiences of similar situations? Anything that helped -- helped you cope, rather than helping your friend, although I'll take that, too, if you got it.
Thanks.
Posted by fallsfall on March 16, 2006, at 12:41:50
In reply to Guilt, boundaries, and compassion... (longish), posted by Racer on March 16, 2006, at 12:17:56
A quick response now, I may have more to say later...
The most helpful thing for me was to realize that as much as my friend wanted my help, that helping her wasn't what she needed. That I was enabling her to be weak and dependent by doing things for her. When I could finally see that it wasn't in my best interest for things to continue the way they had been going, and it was ALSO not in HER best interest, then it was easier to back away. And she has certainly risen to the challenge and is doing better without my (overly energetic) help.
Backing away meant losing a lot of the connection, and that is still sad for me. But maybe these days we are starting to rebuild a new connection on a different basis. So there may be hope for the future.
It sounds like you are doing the right things. I commiserate with the difficulty, though.
Posted by gardenergirl on March 16, 2006, at 13:01:57
In reply to Guilt, boundaries, and compassion... (longish), posted by Racer on March 16, 2006, at 12:17:56
It's so hard when you have empathy for someone's distress, and you feel a certain pull or sense of responsibility or wish to help and you get knocked down for it.
Can you try to keep in mind that modelling appropriate boundaries and good self-care IS helping her? She may not see it, but that doesn't mean it's not important to model the desired behavior. And you do need to ultimately care for yourself first, ya know? That old, "Put your own oxygen on before assisting others" airplane speech?
At the same time, you two share a common grief, I think. Maybe spending some time talking with her about that...about her feelings about that or memories of the lost person....that's another way of helping that doesn't involve demands, "saving", or intrusion. Just a thought.
And as far as spending precious therapy time on this...I so know that feeling. I get mad when stuff "interferes" with my therapy. But my T would say, "That's what's on your mind. It's important." And there are probably some parallel issues with this that might benefit from exploring?
And you know, you don't always have to answer the phone. I stink at that one sometimes. But it's true.
Take care,
gg
Posted by LadyBug on March 16, 2006, at 14:33:50
In reply to Re: Guilt, boundaries, and compassion... (longish), posted by gardenergirl on March 16, 2006, at 13:01:57
I'm going through a simular situation with a good friend of mine. Only with her, it's all about "her", which is mememememememememe!!!!!!! I get sick of it. I have struggles too, but she does't give a crap really. She pretends to care but I know she only cares about herself. I agree that having boudaires is a way to save yourself from the being so consummed. I get selfish too, and won't answer my phone when she calls. She calls only when it's convient for "her" to talk. If it's not convient for me, leave a voice mail and when I get time and I'm in the mood to listen to you. It can be draining can't it???? I pay my therapist to help me, why doesn't she get one to help herself?
Good Luck with it. Own your own power.
LadyBug
Posted by fairywings on March 17, 2006, at 10:53:14
In reply to Guilt, boundaries, and compassion... (longish), posted by Racer on March 16, 2006, at 12:17:56
Boundaries are so incredibly difficult. I admire you for hanging in there with her. She doesn't realize what a good friend she has in you, and you're absolutely right to stand your ground even if she can't understand why.I tend to run the other way when I try to help and ppl slap me down.
Good luck with this,
fw
Posted by Racer on March 17, 2006, at 18:06:33
In reply to Re: Guilt, boundaries, and compassion... (longish) » Racer, posted by fairywings on March 17, 2006, at 10:53:14
I got a voicemail today, saying that she's changed all her plans again -- in this case to something she had ruled out in the past, as not economically feasible -- and would I help her with some practical parts. Now, the practical parts involve me renting a van and moving furnture, which I'm willing to do, but only if I have some faith that everything won't change again in ten minutes. I really could see showing up with the van, and the furniture, only to find that now she's changed her mind again and the furniture needs to go back. While I could probably deal with that, my husband would have a fit.
{sigh}
I need to call her back, but I am afraid to. I'm afraid of how she'll react if I try to say something like, "Last Friday, that wasn't an option. Are you sure you're going to do this? Are you sure you're not going to change your mind again, and I'll have loaded up that van and then be stuck with a van full of furniture I have to find a place for?"
{sigh}
I don't know...
Posted by Dinah on March 17, 2006, at 19:01:05
In reply to Another chapter, not entirely sure what to do, posted by Racer on March 17, 2006, at 18:06:33
I think that's a reasonable thing to ask. And that someone you're afraid to ask it of doesn't sound like a very comfortable friend to have.
She's asking you a favor.
I also tend to think that Falls was right. It's perfectly ok to draw boundaries where you feel comfortable doing so. How she reacts is, of course, up to her.
(Which may be why I don't have all that many IRL friends. So take what I say for what it's worth.)
Posted by fairywings on March 17, 2006, at 19:44:34
In reply to Another chapter, not entirely sure what to do, posted by Racer on March 17, 2006, at 18:06:33
I sure hope she learns to appreciate you Racer. Just a question....would you ever feel comfortable asking someone to do the things she's asked/expected? If you would, how would ppl respond to all the changes? If not, why, and how would you think someone else would respond to what she's doing? Does she have other friends? Just curious because I find you to be a very giving person, and I wasn't or not. I can't ever ask ppl to put themselves out for me, even family.
I hope she doesn't keep changing her mind on you.
fw
Posted by fallsfall on March 17, 2006, at 23:38:24
In reply to Another chapter, not entirely sure what to do, posted by Racer on March 17, 2006, at 18:06:33
You can ask why it works financially when it didn't before. Given what she is asking of you, I don't think that would be too intrusive. You are concerned. You don't want her to get in over her head financially. You are confused.
I'd ask.
This is the end of the thread.
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