![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 37 to 61 of 105. Go back in thread:
Posted by rainbowbrite on October 8, 2005, at 9:37:40
In reply to Re: going to quit therapy » rainbowbrite, posted by alexandra_k on October 7, 2005, at 20:15:26
> :-)
> It helped validate my decision in hindsight.good :-)
> Well... It did help validate my decision. Because you are right... When you want to reestablish a connection with someone then you really need to be able to send that invitation out and then remove yourself from it enough so that it won't destroy you if you never even get a response. And it is hard... Because you always will wonder a bit 'did they get that?' 'did they mean to ignore me?' 'don't they even care about me a little?' 'did they ever care about me?' and one can go nuts with all that...
>absolutely!
> i think i just need to let it go
> and appreciate what she did give me
> and that she did help me
> and that she did care
> but that sometimes circumstances...
> mean that people move on.
>thats a good way of looking at it.
>
> okay, but you will have to show me how :-)
>lol ok but it will have to sit for awhile ;-)
> uh yeah... i suppose we could try... or maybe Australia??? have you ever been to Melbourne??
>Ive never been to Melbourne, always wanted to :-( But Melbourne is further away from me....Hawaii is in the middle lol Hey Ill swim all the way. I kind of like the idea of getting in a good workout lol
Posted by alexandra_k on October 8, 2005, at 17:36:04
In reply to Re: going to quit therapy » alexandra_k, posted by rainbowbrite on October 8, 2005, at 9:37:40
> > okay, but you will have to show me how :-)
> lol ok but it will have to sit for awhile ;-)well thats okay. after such a long swim i'm sure we could think of other things to drink first...
> Ive never been to Melbourne, always wanted to :-( But Melbourne is further away from me....Hawaii is in the middle lol Hey Ill swim all the way. I kind of like the idea of getting in a good workout lolhmm. well i haven't been to hawaii so that could be fun too. i'm just not much of a fan of beaches (i can wear jeans and not suffer too much - right???)
lol. i wonder how long it would actually take to swim.
one might be better off stowing away on a ship...
Posted by rainbowbrite on October 9, 2005, at 8:47:01
In reply to Re: going to quit therapy » rainbowbrite, posted by alexandra_k on October 8, 2005, at 17:36:04
> well thats okay. after such a long swim i'm sure we could think of other things to drink first...
definatly
>
> hmm. well i haven't been to hawaii so that could be fun too. i'm just not much of a fan of beaches (i can wear jeans and not suffer too much - right???)I guess it would depend on the time of year. But I think you'd be fine.
> lol. i wonder how long it would actually take to swim.
>
> one might be better off stowing away on a ship...
>
>well, its about 6499 miles from LA to NZ. So say I start in LA....It would probably take at a nice leisurely pace, so I dont get too tired (@ 1hr per mile) at 5 miles per day..... about 54 days, plus all the nights it would probably take roughly 107 days! Hey thats nothing! lol stowing away might be a better option though, or even flying lol
;-)
Posted by Susan47 on October 9, 2005, at 17:37:51
In reply to going to quit therapy, posted by alexandra_k on October 5, 2005, at 23:38:32
Over the last year or so I've heard you say that so much, that you should quit therapy because you don't think it's helping. And then when you're forced to quit, you seem to be upset about it. I've lost track of who was good and who wasn't. I've lost track of who you've seen. I've lost track of how you were doing. I'm sorry. :(
Posted by alexandra_k on October 9, 2005, at 21:09:38
In reply to Re: going to quit therapy » alexandra_k, posted by Susan47 on October 9, 2005, at 17:37:51
> Over the last year or so I've heard you say that so much, that you should quit therapy because you don't think it's helping.
:-(
Yeah. But then I never do quit really
:-(> And then when you're forced to quit, you seem to be upset about it.
Yeah
:-(> I've lost track of who was good and who wasn't. I've lost track of who you've seen. I've lost track of how you were doing. I'm sorry. :(
I've lost track of you too Susan.
I'm sorry too.Good to talk to you again (((Susan)))
(Now go answer my post over on relationships)
;-)
Posted by Susan47 on October 9, 2005, at 21:27:49
In reply to Re: going to quit therapy » Susan47, posted by alexandra_k on October 9, 2005, at 21:09:38
Oh, okay. :)
Posted by gardenergirl on October 9, 2005, at 23:12:59
In reply to Pleasure GG » gardenergirl, posted by Damos on October 8, 2005, at 1:57:31
Posted by JenStar on October 11, 2005, at 23:59:13
In reply to going to quit therapy, posted by alexandra_k on October 5, 2005, at 23:38:32
hi Alex,
I just got back from trip where I didn't have email/internet access...I'm trying to catch up on everything, but I wanted to say "hi" and that I hope you're doing ok!take care,
JenStar
Posted by alexandra_k on October 12, 2005, at 3:37:28
In reply to I hope you're doing ok! » alexandra_k, posted by JenStar on October 11, 2005, at 23:59:13
:-)
ooh. a trip? where did you go? what did you see? was it fun?
it can be hard to catch up sometimes...
i hate feeling like i'm missing out on something...but it is nice to hear from you and i look foward to seeing your posts :-)
Posted by alexandra_k on October 13, 2005, at 5:31:19
In reply to Re: went a little crazy but i think i'm okay now » JenStar, posted by alexandra_k on October 12, 2005, at 3:37:28
t wants me to take a night class to learn self-hypnosis.
i really don't think... that sounds like a good idea to me.
and...
David Groves style 'movement work' where 'He advocates physically moving around in order to see things from a different perspective'.
hmm.
anybody ever heard of that?
i can't find anything on google.
i don't like it when i can't find anything on google.
even NLP got links from google...
Posted by rainbowbrite on October 13, 2005, at 7:06:27
In reply to okay so now i'm even more serious about quitting, posted by alexandra_k on October 13, 2005, at 5:31:19
I agree, Id be wary of hypnosis, it can be dangerous and people who are more prone to dissociations are more easy to hypnotize. It kind of gives me the willies. I searched David Groves but I cant find anything either.
Posted by cricket on October 13, 2005, at 7:16:54
In reply to okay so now i'm even more serious about quitting, posted by alexandra_k on October 13, 2005, at 5:31:19
Hi Alex,
I agree with Rainbowbrite. Self-hypnosis does not sound like a good idea.
Never heard of David Groves either and it sounds weird.
Posted by Tamar on October 13, 2005, at 7:52:43
In reply to okay so now i'm even more serious about quitting, posted by alexandra_k on October 13, 2005, at 5:31:19
> t wants me to take a night class to learn self-hypnosis.
Argh!
> i really don't think... that sounds like a good idea to me.
Well, I wouldn’t go for it, but some people swear by it…
> and...
>
> David Groves style 'movement work' where 'He advocates physically moving around in order to see things from a different perspective'.
>
> hmm.
>
> anybody ever heard of that?
> i can't find anything on google.
> i don't like it when i can't find anything on google.
> even NLP got links from google...I’ve heard of something similar for conflict resolution. I did it in a workshop once at a conference. It was interesting… Not precisely the same thing your T is talking about perhaps.
I had a little fish about on google. Try googling “david grove” and “clean space”. That might be the thing your T was talking about.
Cheers,
Tamar
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on October 13, 2005, at 9:06:11
In reply to okay so now i'm even more serious about quitting, posted by alexandra_k on October 13, 2005, at 5:31:19
Hmmm. Maybe it is more of a relaxation thing rather than "self-hypnosis." Maybe that's just a catchy name? Some people find EMDR helpful although many people think it is bunk.
Hard to say whether self-hypnosis could be helpful or not. I'll admit that I would have had the same reaction you do. Just thought I'd throw some ideas out there for the sake of argument. ;)
Best,
EE
Posted by alexandra_k on October 13, 2005, at 18:48:34
In reply to okay so now i'm even more serious about quitting, posted by alexandra_k on October 13, 2005, at 5:31:19
Thanks for the search terms Tamar.
I think it might be... Time to quit.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 13, 2005, at 19:47:26
In reply to Re: okay so now i'm even more serious about quitting, posted by alexandra_k on October 13, 2005, at 18:48:34
because...
it seems to me that she really is clutching at straws.
and her thought on hypnosis in particular...
would be something that i think most 'experts' would think best avoided for someone with my symptoms.and i'm not saying that the 'experts' views should be heralded as authoratative or anything like that.
but i do think that if one is going to disagree, or to advise an alternative course of action, then one should at least have a jolly good theorietical motivation for disagreeing.
but to be honest...
i don't think she knows anything about what the 'experts' think or would reccomend. because she writes them off as people who take themselves to be authorative on the clients experiences. when clearly the client is authoratative with respect to their own experiences.
i told her...
that i don't think the 'experts' claim to be authorative on the clients experiences. it is more that the client exhibits certain symptoms (typically cashed out as behavioural). and with respect to what works to alleviate / worsten those symptoms... well... that is an objective matter. and thus you can study what helps and what harms leaving aside the experiences altogether. and thus... the 'experts' are experts because they have studies what helps and what harms.
but that...
is to cast doubt on her particular variety of helping.which is about believing that the client is the authority. and that the client has it within their power to solve all their difficulties.
fact is...
she is used to seeing people for one or two or three sessions.
so they can vent...
or work out what they are going to do with respect to some particular problem or other.i know that in many ways her line is best...
i mean... it looks like i'm not going to get a t. so... all that is left to be done... is to accept that i have the power to help myself / solve my own problems. i guess that is the antedote to despair. only trouble is... i don't believe it. i don't believe it.and i know this is horrid.
but i don't have faith in her
i don't think she knows what she is talking about
she won't read anything that i consider 'reputable'
and she ruminates on this kind of stuff...
and thats fine
and i'm sure thats immensely helpful for some peoplebut not me not me.
personality clash again...
:-(
Posted by gardenergirl on October 13, 2005, at 22:35:46
In reply to Re: okay so now i'm even more serious about quitting, posted by alexandra_k on October 13, 2005, at 19:47:26
Oh dear. I hate to see you quit if it helps at least some (and doesn't harm along the way). But only you can decide that, really.
I would want to know her thinking on the hypnosis thing, too, because I agree that's it's usually not good for folks who dissociate.
Here's that DBT self-help website I was telling you about. www.dbtselfhelp.com
Just trying to offer some sense of hope and choice.
((((alexandra)))
gg
Posted by Damos on October 13, 2005, at 23:01:52
In reply to Re: okay so now i'm even more serious about quitting, posted by alexandra_k on October 13, 2005, at 19:47:26
Oh Alex, I don't know what to say. But I've got to agree with the others on the self hypnosis thing.
Like gg I don't want to see you lose this if it helps in even the smallest way, but all this cr*p sure must make it hard to stay.
Sorry you're going through this.
Posted by Tamar on October 14, 2005, at 5:36:00
In reply to Re: okay so now i'm even more serious about quitting, posted by alexandra_k on October 13, 2005, at 19:47:26
(((((alex)))))
What a horrible position to be in.
I’ve also read that hypnosis isn’t a good idea for people who dissociate…
It’s very uncomfortable to disagree profoundly at a theoretical level with people who are providing healthcare.
And yet… if you are the authority… if you have it within your power to solve all your difficulties… wouldn’t it make sense for her to recognise that one of your resources is the capacity to understand and critique the theory? I think she shouldn’t be threatened if you have a perspective on the theory that differs from hers.
I think in any healthcare context there should be an understanding that the treatment should fit the patient’s needs. That’s probably not in dispute. But in a situation where someone’s usual theoretical approach isn’t perfectly matched with a patient’s (or client’s) needs, there has to be some room for negotiation.
Have you asked her to read some of stuff you think is reputable? I think it would be reasonable for her to agree to do a little reading. Even if she disagrees with the content, I think she needs to be able to discuss it with you. After all, if she was willing to take you as a client, knowing it wasn’t a perfect arrangement, I think she has some responsibility to move outside her comfort zone a little.
Has she flatly refused to read things you’ve suggested?
Posted by alexandra_k on October 19, 2005, at 19:59:51
In reply to Re: okay so now i'm even more serious about quitting » alexandra_k, posted by gardenergirl on October 13, 2005, at 22:35:46
> Oh dear. I hate to see you quit if it helps at least some (and doesn't harm along the way). But only you can decide that, really.
yeah. and that... is a hard one. sometimes i think yes, it is helpful for me to see her. othertimes i think no i am just wasting both of our time.
and i vaccilate a fair bit.
we aren't really doing any work...
but then i suppose you get out what you put in. i just don't seem to be able to put more into it. because of our match i suppose. i don't know...:-(
> I would want to know her thinking on the hypnosis thing, too, because I agree that's it's usually not good for folks who dissociate.turns out there wasn't much more behind it than that she personally found it useful.
> Here's that DBT self-help website I was telling you about. www.dbtselfhelp.com
thanks.
> Just trying to offer some sense of hope and choice.
> ((((alexandra)))
thanks gg.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 19, 2005, at 20:00:51
In reply to Re: okay so now i'm even more serious about quitting » alexandra_k, posted by Damos on October 13, 2005, at 23:01:52
> Like gg I don't want to see you lose this if it helps in even the smallest way, but all this cr*p sure must make it hard to stay.thanks damos.
that means a lot.
:-)
Posted by alexandra_k on October 19, 2005, at 20:05:29
In reply to Re: okay so now i'm even more serious about quitting » alexandra_k, posted by Tamar on October 14, 2005, at 5:36:00
i think the trouble is...
that she has to use what she knows, what she has been trained in as her base.her training is in having a chat (a 1-3 session chat) with people in order to help them see their way a bit clearer around a fairly particular problem.
i don't know much about her base
the stuff she has read
just what it is exactly that she is trained in.and so it is hard to talk about it because we are coming from very different places.
i don't agree with the majority of the lit that i have read. but at least i can talk about the points of disagreement with the standard lit. she hasn't read the standard lit. so we kind of talk past each other when discussing these things.
basically... i need to accept her for who she is and what she does.
and that means...
general chat is okay
and that can be helpful
but with respect to anything more
thats all folks.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 19, 2005, at 20:18:14
In reply to Re: okay so now i'm even more serious about quitting » Tamar, posted by alexandra_k on October 19, 2005, at 20:05:29
scam got me thinking about a variety of things...
what most struck me was the point that oftentimes people in the service encourage people to believe that they will die outside the service.
that hit me real hard. thats pretty much what i believe. that i'll die if i don't get help. that i'll fall apart. that i won't be able to function. that i dont' have a future. that there isn't any hope.
and what has the service done for me?
one helpful therapist
and so much so very much harm that i just can't even start to get that across
and they gave me horrible stereotypes via which i learned to view myself
borderline
attention seeking
manipulative
hysterical
liar
and they provided me with supplimentary symptoms and encouraged me to...
get worse
because i had to get worse to get treatment
and i believed i'd die without it.and so i'm powerless and i hate them so much
and i've given them the power
and they encouraged me to
and it has f*cked me up so immensely
and it has almost resulted in my death at times
i never started trying to kill myself
till i was hospitalised involountarily
i never started si
till i was asked about it so much i thought it might be something that was worth a shot - i mean it must help if people do it - right?but there isn't anything wrong with me.
i'm okay.
i struggle at times.
but that is part of life.
i might struggle more than the majority of people
but that doesn't mean i have a disease
that i'm defectiveand so i have been thinking about all this...
and i thought i found a revelation
i felt so very happy for the past few days
so very happy
but i've been spinning a lot too
because of all the other sh*t that was mixed up with that stuff.i think... i need to move on from the services.
move on from therapy
move on from feeling guilty about not taking a medication that really doesn't seem to help me anyway.and yesterday...
i got a letter.
that registrar i went to see...
has recomended that i be discharged from the service.i'm discharged.
they discharged me.
i don't feel i have access to the 'revelation' anymore. times really are very tough sometimes. but the point is that the service harms me more than it helps.
and enough
i've had enoughi have people who mean a great deal to me
a strangers smile means a great deal to me
other people are mostly kind if you give them a chance
things are hard at times
but i'm going to make it
i don't need themand i am going to work on this:
i don't want them
i dont' want them harming me anymore.
time to move on.
i'll keep seeing my t from uni.
we can have our general chats and i'll take comfort from the fact that she caresbut its probably a good thing that i'm not feeling too attached to her
new country
new starti dont' wan tto see myself as mentally ill as diseased as NEEDING the mental health service anymore.
enough.
and i feel more at peace.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 19, 2005, at 21:28:41
In reply to Re: i have been thinking..., posted by alexandra_k on October 19, 2005, at 20:18:14
i don't want them harming me anymore
i don't want their diagnoses
i don't want their judgements
i don't want their predictions about the course my life is going to take
i don't want them encouraging my dependence
i don't want themi don't want to view myself as having a mental illness
i'm not ill
i'm not sicki'm okay.
i can work through stuff for myself
i can babble about it to others and get a variety of perspectives
i can talk to caring people on the boards
and irl tooand i have realised just how closed off from rl i have become
i turn away from rl to come herehere is wonderful
here is safe
but i need that real life stuff as well
and i need to cultivate that
and i need to think more about my work
than about dramas on the boardsbecause i don't want to think...
that i'll die without this place
that i can't connect with people outside this place
because if i start to think that
then this place will harm more than help too...i guess this is going to be a lot like an alchoholic trying to give up drinking.
when i get distressed i want the service to help me
i think about that a lot
the way alchoholics think about drinking
its an addiction
and it will take some time
Posted by cricket on October 20, 2005, at 8:45:19
In reply to Re: i have been thinking..., posted by alexandra_k on October 19, 2005, at 20:18:14
Hey Alex,
You are so much more than okay. You are so smart and helpful.
I am in much the same place you are right now.
I feel like I was so much better off, so much happier and healthier before therapy.
I will try to post more coherently later. I have a horrible headache right now.
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.