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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 9 to 33 of 40. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on February 20, 2005, at 5:09:45
In reply to Re: I've Been Thinking » Speaker, posted by daisym on February 19, 2005, at 23:19:00
Hmmmm... Daisy is wise.
Posted by Dinah on February 20, 2005, at 5:10:16
In reply to Re: I've Been Thinking » daisym, posted by Dinah on February 20, 2005, at 5:09:45
Posted by mair on February 22, 2005, at 22:00:32
In reply to Follow up on not Trusting T., posted by Speaker on February 18, 2005, at 20:55:57
Posted by Speaker on February 22, 2005, at 23:02:57
In reply to What happened today? (nm) » Speaker, posted by mair on February 22, 2005, at 22:00:32
Well, I did talk to him and told him I was very disappointed that he didn't call. He said that I didn't ask him to call unless he could work me into his schedule...and he didn't have anything open. I told him his answering machine states leaave a message and he would return my call...not, unless I don't have the answer you want. I got not apology just a...why do you have such a hard time asking for what you want? He doesn't get me. I left the message and he had the opportunity of showing he cared about what was going on in my life...and he chose not to. I know he doesn't see it my way but it's like asking your husband for flowers and then getting them...it just doesn't mean the same. I know they are paid to care for us not "about us" and I will just accept that. Today's session was usless as I just couldn't talk...I feel like it doesn't matter what I say. I know that isn't right but why would I want to talk to someone who really doesn't care "about me". I'm sure I'll work though this but it will take me a while. Any suggestions are appreciated.
Posted by Shortelise on February 23, 2005, at 20:44:24
In reply to Follow-Up, posted by Speaker on February 22, 2005, at 23:02:57
Speaker, I just don't like this.
You are telling him what you need. You are telling him that when you call in a crisis, you need a call back.
Ok, so he wanted you to say on the telephone, please call me.
I just don't get what he's doing. I would like to think that he is focussing on your needs, and that you must in some way need this kind of "tough love". But do you? Do you need someone to keep his distance? Is there something in your history that might make you think he's doing this "for your own good"?
I would hate it. I would not have stayed in therapy if my T had been like this, but mine did telephone me, unasked. I needed that to eventually come to believe that he cared about me.
You aren't in termination, right? Now my T doesn't worry so much if he can't return a call the same day because I am seeing him less, being less involved in therapy, but he used to never fail to do so.
Speaker, I don't know what to suggest. If it were my T I would sit in his office and say "I hate this, I think you don't care about me, and I need to feel you care about me in order to trust you. I think you are not trying to help me trust you, and I don't understand why."
Hugs,
ShortE
Posted by daisym on February 24, 2005, at 0:07:18
In reply to Follow-Up, posted by Speaker on February 22, 2005, at 23:02:57
***I know they are paid to care for us not "about us" and I will just accept that.
I just can't accept that. I had a big long talk with my therapist today about exactly this. I might not trust that my intense feelings won't drive him away, but I do think he cares "about me." In fact, I think he cares about me, instead of "for me." Semantics maybe. But I want him to understand why I need to touch base with him when I'm having a hard day.
I agree with ShortE. Say exactly what she said to say. I'm interested in his answer.
Posted by fallsfall on February 24, 2005, at 8:07:01
In reply to Re: Follow-Up » Speaker, posted by daisym on February 24, 2005, at 0:07:18
OK. So what is the difference between "caring for" someone and "caring about" someone? Is caring "for" someone like taking care of them, while caring "about" someone is wanting good things for them?? I am so confused.
I was struck by that sentance in Speaker's post, as well. But my therapist said that he cared "for" me, but the way he said it, it meant that I was an individual (i.e. not just a generic client), and that the outcome for me - as an individual - was important to him. I'm not sure I really want to know about the difference - I kind of like the way I think it is...
Posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 9:01:40
In reply to For vs. About, posted by fallsfall on February 24, 2005, at 8:07:01
As a nurse I look at my patients and I did what was needed to care for their illness and what was ordered by the Dr. However, since their hospital stays were so short I didn't develope a relationship enough to care about them. I think my T keeps a distance that he is willing to care for me but doesn't get close enough to care about me. I hope this makes sense! I know it does sound like semantics but it is totally different in my mind.
Posted by Daisym on February 24, 2005, at 10:23:44
In reply to Re: For vs. About, posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 9:01:40
See -- I read is as
"Care For" -- have feelings for you"Care About" -- want what is best for you and care what happens to you.
Weird how we all hear different things.
Posted by Dinah on February 24, 2005, at 11:09:08
In reply to Re: For vs. About, posted by Daisym on February 24, 2005, at 10:23:44
My therapist seems to use them interchangeably. I think he uses "about" more often. He says it means more or less the same thing I mean when I say I love him. Feeling attached.
Posted by littleone on February 24, 2005, at 14:23:34
In reply to Re: For vs. About, posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 9:01:40
I thought you meant his name was Dr. However :)
Posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 14:39:23
In reply to Sorry to digress... :) » Speaker, posted by littleone on February 24, 2005, at 14:23:34
I love it!!! Actually, I think it's Dr. Whatever :) at times :). Thanks for the smile!
Posted by Aphrodite on February 24, 2005, at 15:10:52
In reply to Re: For vs. About, posted by Daisym on February 24, 2005, at 10:23:44
I want to be cared *for* and cared *about* and all the other prepositions. I want it all!!!!!
(I can be such a brat:)
Posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 15:17:24
In reply to Re: For vs. About, posted by Aphrodite on February 24, 2005, at 15:10:52
I agree but I don't think it's being a brat. I think in order to really work on the tough stuff we need to be cared for and about. That is why I am questioning my T's ability to help me. I feel he keeps such a distance that he doesn't care about me but feels his job is to care for me though "the process".
Posted by Dinah on February 24, 2005, at 15:33:58
In reply to Re: For vs. About » Aphrodite, posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 15:17:24
I felt like that for a long time, and I'm to this day not sure whether it was my stuff or his stuff that made me feel that way.
Posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 16:16:53
In reply to Re: For vs. About » Speaker, posted by Dinah on February 24, 2005, at 15:33:58
I usually take responsibility in all relationships but for some reason I think they are trained to listen so he should understand.
I have been wondering how work is going for you this week?
Marie
Posted by mair on February 24, 2005, at 16:23:50
In reply to Re: For vs. About » Aphrodite, posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 15:17:24
Maybe these are distinctions without differences. In order to "care for" the client, the therapist needs to figure out what the client's needs are and how they can be met.
What bothers me about your situation, is that regardless of whether he was justified in thinking that he didn't have to call you back, you've now told him how bad that made you feel, and I haven't heard that he's apologized at all for hurting you, even if it was entirely inadvertent. It all sounds pretty defensive. What I used to really hate was when my T would pass off any angry reactions I had to her as transference at work, as if that somehow absolved her of any responsibility. She'll still sometimes point out to me that something she did hurt me because it replayed some long ago hurt, and she'll sometimes defend whatever it was that she did, but she'll also express remorse that she didn't pick up on what I needed. At least she's acknowledging my hurt and its validity.
Has your therapist done anything here other than explain why he didn't think he had to call?
Mair
Posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 17:47:33
In reply to Re: For vs. About, posted by mair on February 24, 2005, at 16:23:50
Mair,
Absolutely no remorse or apology! He actually wondered why I wasn't talking much...I was totally shocked. I am really considering what I need to do here as I can't work if I don't feel like he is truely there for me. I will give it a few more sessions to see if it is just a phase that will pass or an unpassable juncture that needs to go in a different direction. Thanks for keeping up with me, I really appreciate it :).
Marie
Posted by daisym on February 24, 2005, at 18:10:08
In reply to Re: For vs. About » mair, posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 17:47:33
I know you have some csa issues to work on. Have you told any of the stories yet? I'm wondering if you have, how it felt. I hope I'm not over stepping but I don't know how I could tell these really personal things to someone if they cared more about the process (how I told), not about what I told and what I was feeling. It wouldn't feel safe to me otherwise. I don't know if I'm making sense.
I hope you can work this out.
Posted by Dinah on February 24, 2005, at 19:13:37
In reply to Re: For vs. About » mair, posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 17:47:33
To tell you the truth, although I'm glad now that I stuck it out with my therapist, I'm not altogether sure it was the best decision.
I *like* that he's not overly empathetic, but...
At any rate, he'd have probably responded the way your therapist did a long time ago. But he's grown a lot since then, and would now undoubtedly be more attuned. If he hadn't changed I know it wouldn't have been right to stay with him. And as it was, we spent years on the relationship rather than my issues.
Transference or no, you should be able to trust your gut on leaving or staying.
Work is better than last week, nowhere near what it should be.
I don't know what to do.
Posted by Dinah on February 24, 2005, at 19:39:33
In reply to Re: For vs. About » Speaker, posted by Dinah on February 24, 2005, at 19:13:37
It did take an awfully long time to build a relationship. Upwards of five years. And that was partly, but not entirely, my fault. It does seem that finding a therapist you could bond with earlier might be more cost effective.
But in his own way, my therapist can be very warm. I called him first thing this morning, because it had occurred to me overnight that the reason he may have been frustrated yesterday is that I'm burning him out. He's pretty much singlehandedly (IRL) had to worry about me and deal with my despair. It keeps coming back, and maybe he was wearing out from it. So I called and left a message asking him if he was getting worn out from my constant intense sadness. I let him know that I didn't need or expect a return call, that we could talk about it tomorrow.
He called back not too long after. I reminded him that he didn't need to call, and he answered very gently (for him anyway) that he knew he didn't need to but he wanted to anyway. And he assured me that he was one person in my life who was not going to get worn out from my feelings. That I could feel sad for as long as I needed to.
It was another of the really nice things he's done lately.
Posted by Aphrodite on February 24, 2005, at 19:59:01
In reply to That really wasn't fair of me, posted by Dinah on February 24, 2005, at 19:39:33
I'm glad you called and asked, and I am glad he reassured you. Sounds like he did and said the right thing by returning your call.
Posted by Dinah on February 24, 2005, at 20:14:24
In reply to Re: That really wasn't fair of me » Dinah, posted by Aphrodite on February 24, 2005, at 19:59:01
It was nice of him. He's like that occasionally - not often by any means.
I would have been fine with him not calling. I mostly wanted to give him a chance to think about it before tomorrow's session, and evaluate if it was starting to be a problem for him.
He's been way nicer in general lately. I wonder if a death in the very immediate family is the key to something for him. Like I deserve kindness now or something. I don't remember him being like this when my best (human) friend died. And not when my dog died either.
But maybe that's not fair either. Maybe something about the way I handled my father's illness or death stirred something in him and deepened our relationship. Or maybe not.
Only time will tell I guess.
Posted by mair on February 24, 2005, at 20:51:43
In reply to Re: That really wasn't fair of me » Aphrodite, posted by Dinah on February 24, 2005, at 20:14:24
Maybe he's moved by the very obvious amount of pain you're in.
Maybe the empathy has been there for awhile but you haven't been able to absorb it.
Maybe you're accepting that he really does care for and about you.
Maybe he's just responding in an appropriately professional and competent way to your current circumstances.
Whatever - accept that he's willing to be your support right now and use it as much as you can.
It sounds like the best way for you to take care of yourself now.
(((dinah)))
mair
Posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 22:34:16
In reply to Re: For vs. About » Speaker, posted by daisym on February 24, 2005, at 18:10:08
I have told him of general stories...but no intense details. I know that would bring up a lot of feelings that I can't contain and that is where I would want him to care about me. In fact when that happens he doesn't even know how to care for me. This is the delima I feel...I'm not sure I can move forward unless I can trust him with my intense feelings and respond to them. I have always been emotionally in control and it is very hard for me to be observed and not cared about. Maybe it's just my issue!
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