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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on January 23, 2005, at 8:35:12
I've obviously concerned my therapist. He pressured me into seeing him on Saturday. He wants me to sign a release form to talk to my psychiatrist. And he says that he may have to talk to my husband. I'm reasonably sure he won't rat me out to my husband. And I have no intention of signing a release form. At least not without significant restrictions.
But the fact that he's doing this makes me realized I've worried him. It may be CYA worry, but it's still worry. I don't want to do that to him. When he was unabashedly attempting to use our relationship to get me to do what he wanted, I didn't feel so guilty. But now he's stopped, I'm feeling really sad about making him worry, even CYA worry.
It makes me want to start behaving myself better. Because he's been too nice to me for me to want to cause him any grief. I need to start being a better client.
Posted by mair on January 23, 2005, at 9:14:36
In reply to Feeling guilty, posted by Dinah on January 23, 2005, at 8:35:12
Dinah, what does being a better client mean? I'm sure he just wants you to take better care of yourself during what he views to be a very vulnerable time. And it doesn't sound like CYA stuff at all. I know you grumble about how you only represent money to him, but I've always had the sense that he does care about you, and what he's doing now sounds like an abundance of care. And you should appreciate that he's obviously taking you very seriously.
I don't think it's a bad thing at all for us to feel responsible to our Ts - whatever it takes to keep us safe.
The time I think I was most dangerous to myself, a very very slight meds change allowed me to start climbing out of the abyss. By slight I mean that all I did was stop taking a drug in the morning and start taking it in the evening. I had no intention of calling my pdoc when i was so bad off because I didn't want to change what I was taking and in my mind, if I wasn't going to change medications, there was no point to speaking with her. I only contacted her under real pressure from my T, and was shocked to discover that the smallest of suggestion could alot for me.
To be honest, I'm kind of surprised that your T doesn't have on-going permission to talk to your pdoc. I think mine just assume it's ok and I've never told either one of them that it isn't. They're part of your "team"; I should think you'd want them working together.
You've heard the old adage haven't you - that no one on their death bed says they wished they'd spent more time at the office? I, as much as you, knows how damaging a poor work environment can be to mental health. More recently, when it's made me feel suicidal, I try to give myself this reality check - that of all the reasons people might have for hurting themselves, some job they hate to begin with and would love not to have, is the stupidist.
Please take all this as seriously as your T is - you know you can always email me, right?
Mair
Posted by Tabitha on January 23, 2005, at 10:36:51
In reply to Feeling guilty, posted by Dinah on January 23, 2005, at 8:35:12
Let him do his job, dear-- he's supposed to have boundaries to protect him against getting consumed by worry about his clients.
And how about re-defining a "good client" to mean one who's honest about what's going on with her-- not one who hides the truth to protect the therapist.
Posted by Camille Dumont on January 23, 2005, at 10:50:43
In reply to Feeling guilty, posted by Dinah on January 23, 2005, at 8:35:12
For me the psychologist acting as my therapist always had permission to speak to my psychiatrist and always got copies of his reports. In fact it was her who gave me copies of them. Simpler that way. Although I would never have allowed her to speak to my s.o. or other family members.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on January 23, 2005, at 10:50:53
In reply to Feeling guilty, posted by Dinah on January 23, 2005, at 8:35:12
Posted by mair on January 23, 2005, at 11:13:45
In reply to Feeling guilty, posted by Dinah on January 23, 2005, at 8:35:12
Posted by TofuEmmy on January 23, 2005, at 11:48:26
In reply to Feeling guilty, posted by Dinah on January 23, 2005, at 8:35:12
I also completely agree with Tabitha.
And ya know, it helps to be able to expand our circle of helper people just a smidge. Right now your circle seems to be a...um...horizontal line between you and your T. Perhaps trying to sorta get a bit of a wedge in there and open it up a bit to include others could, well.... save your life?
Please take care of our friend Dinah.
emmy
Posted by fallsfall on January 23, 2005, at 12:11:44
In reply to ((Dinah)) what Tabitha said! (nm), posted by Miss Honeychurch on January 23, 2005, at 10:50:53
I think Tabitha said it just right, too.
Posted by crushedout on January 23, 2005, at 13:10:37
In reply to Re: ((Dinah)) what Tabitha said!, posted by fallsfall on January 23, 2005, at 12:11:44
I loved both Tabitha's and mair's posts. I think they speak the truth.We all care about you very much, Dinah, and so does your T.
Posted by Susan47 on January 23, 2005, at 13:20:57
In reply to Feeling guilty, posted by Dinah on January 23, 2005, at 8:35:12
I tried to talk my psychologist into talking to my psychiatrist AND my counsellor and I think if he'd done that, it would have spared both him and I a great deal of trouble. He just wasn't interested, and I think he did both of us a disservice.
I get the impression you're afraid of not having him to yourself anymore, and correct me if I'm wrong?
Posted by gardenergirl on January 23, 2005, at 15:32:14
In reply to Re: ((Dinah)) what Tabitha said!, posted by fallsfall on January 23, 2005, at 12:11:44
And I'm concerned that he's concerned. Only because I guess I don't have a good feel for what you might be thinking that concerns him, probably because I haven't been reading as much lately. :(
Have you talked to your husband yourself about how you are doing?
gg
Posted by Dinah on January 23, 2005, at 15:52:10
In reply to Re: ((Dinah)) what Tabitha said!---I agree, too » fallsfall, posted by gardenergirl on January 23, 2005, at 15:32:14
I'm sorry I didn't say enough when I posted. I sometimes start mid conversation. I actually find the fact that I'm feeling guilty encouraging. It seems less self absorbed than I have been, and I really don't want to hurt him or anyone else. I didn't mean to distress you guys as well.
I guess by CYA I meant the part where he did want to tell my psychiatrist and husband. His genuine caring comes from the fact that he's honoring my desire not to, even though that's leaving his A a bit exposed to his mind.
I'm actually working today but I will get back to you. I need to sort some stuff out in my mind before I can reply sensibly.
But really, I'm better off than I was Friday. (wry smile) Friday it seemed like there were no options at all. This morning it's like I suddenly came to my senses and saw that I was hurting someone. And you guys too. I'm sorry. I still don't see a way out of this mess, but I don't think I'm likely to run away from home when I'm feeling like it would matter if I did. That old conditioning.
Posted by crushedout on January 23, 2005, at 16:34:05
In reply to Uh oh. Those early morning posts..., posted by Dinah on January 23, 2005, at 15:52:10
Oh, man, Dinah, is there no end to your guilt? I don't think the rest of us are as worried about your selfishness as you are, and probably were hoping to relieve your guilt rather than add to it. It's interesting how your feelings toward your fellow babblers parallel those toward your T. But you know that we really care, right? I mean, we have no selfish reasons for wanting to help. Or do we? (I'm really wondering.)I'm so glad you're feeling a little better today. :) That makes two of us.
Posted by Dinah on January 23, 2005, at 18:17:03
In reply to Re: Uh oh. Those early morning posts... » Dinah, posted by crushedout on January 23, 2005, at 16:34:05
Hmmm... I suppose there was a time I'd get a good Babble Open pinch for that. I thought I'd outgrown those.
(I apologized so much in chat that my fellow chatters instituted the "sorry" pinch.)
Posted by Speaker on January 24, 2005, at 7:35:32
In reply to Feeling guilty, posted by Dinah on January 23, 2005, at 8:35:12
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on January 24, 2005, at 12:45:19
In reply to What is CYA ??? (((((Dinah))))) (nm) » Dinah, posted by Speaker on January 24, 2005, at 7:35:32
Posted by Poet on January 24, 2005, at 17:36:10
In reply to Feeling guilty, posted by Dinah on January 23, 2005, at 8:35:12
Hi Dinah,
I haven't been following your situation very closely. Not that I don't care or that you're not worthy being cared about, I do and you are.
What made me jump in for my two cents worth (or is that no sense worth?) is your T wanting to talk to pdoc and your husband.
I know it was my a little bit of CYA and a big amount of genuine concern (for me) when my T phoned my husband last year.
Pdoc and T have my written permission to talk to each other, but haven't spoken as far as I know. I know if they talked to each other (and I talked to anybody!) it would be for my own good, but I am not a treatment team player. I would want to hear everything they say, so I can defend myself.
Today my T gave me her cell phone number in case I really need to reach her. Deep down, a part of me has to got to admit a little teeny bit that she really does care about me. She wouldn't have given me the number, if I was her worst nightmare client. I don't think your T would have scheduled that Saturday session and want to talk to your pdoc and husband if you were his worst client.
Poet
Posted by Skittles on January 24, 2005, at 18:13:42
In reply to Re: Feeling guilty » Dinah, posted by Poet on January 24, 2005, at 17:36:10
Can a T contact your spouse without your consent? This issue has me very concerned.
Posted by Dinah on January 24, 2005, at 18:26:49
In reply to Re: Feeling guilty » Dinah, posted by Poet on January 24, 2005, at 17:36:10
We talked about it today. It was one of those warm backlit sort of sessions. I started out by apologizing for making him feel uncomfortable. And as he started to protest that while CYA was part of his concern, it wasn't anywhere near all of it, I told him that I knew that. That he had proved it by leaving his A partly un-C'd, at least by his reckoning.
He was really honest about it. He said that most of the therapists he respects would tell their clients that they couldn't work under that sort of condition of worry. That the client would have to give more concrete guarantees of safety than I was willing to give. And that he walked a fine line with me. Wanting to balance assuring my safety with honoring my wishes.
I told him how much I appreciated him not threatening to abandon me as a tool to obtain my compliance. And repeated how sorry I was to have caused him distress. And he fussed at me for apologizing more than once. :) And I told him that I was trying to say something more, but couldn't figure out what it was. I finally settled on thanking him for caring enough about me to take a risk for me.
It really is true. He knows what abandonment means to me and he never even hinted that he would abandon me. He managed to continue to reassure me that he would not. (He did use our relationship to try to get me to do what he wanted, but not by threatening abandonment.)
We only touched a bit on the actual problem today, as I was more in an interpersonal mode than a problem solving mode. We reserved tomorrow for that. He drew me a square with four parts. One part was the part of me that I knew and didn't mind others knowing, one part was the part of me that I knew and others didn't because I didn't choose to share. One part was the part of me that neither I nor others knew, the unconscious I guess. And one part was the part that others knew about me, but that I didn't know about myself. He says we're going to work on that part, the distorted perceptions that are leading to my distress, in his opinion.
I don't know. I just know that it was a good session. The problems are still there. But we'll work on that tomorrow.
I'm willing to acknowledge that he really does care about me, and I hope you can accept that about your therapist as well. I don't suppose that means that we always appreciate how they show their caring. :)
He said he didn't think that he needed the permission to speak to my pdoc today. It really hurt our relationship when he had a working relationship with my pdoc and they discussed me. I don't want to risk that happening again. Of course, prior pdoc had a biiiig mouth. And he knows my husband well enough that I don't think he'd call him unless I really really wouldn't promise anything at all. I don't think I'm that stupid. But at the moment, I'm more or less willing to walk through coals to please him. I'm not sure if that's how therapy is supposed to work.....
(I'm sorry you're feeling poorly as well. If it would help to talk, I'll be taking work breaks and can listen.)
Posted by Dinah on January 24, 2005, at 18:31:45
In reply to Can they *do* that?, posted by Skittles on January 24, 2005, at 18:13:42
If they think you're a danger to yourself or others they can have you hospitalized against your will. From what I gathered from what he told me, the family member takes part in that process. I don't really know... I wonder how many clients he's had hospitalized?
I do know that back when I told him that if he ever terminated me to have burly security guards standing by to commit me (this was years ago), he thought about it and said that he would have to call my husband and inform him of the upcoming danger. I was really miffed that my husband would know I was being offed, I mean terminated, before I would.
This is the end of the thread.
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