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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 64. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by crushedout on December 21, 2004, at 21:33:08
I've been thinking about it a lot lately, and really, really wishing I hadn't left her. I don't know if I did the right thing. I just don't. I'm very tempted to call her and go in and see her next week.
I'm still seeing the new T but we just don't connect the same way. And we don't end up figuring anything out wrt the old T. And I'm just wondering how I could have made this decision. I'm so mad I did it. What on earth was I thinking? I really need her. She was good for me in so many ways. I probably didn't tell you guys about them because I only post here when I'm bummed out. So how could you know? But this was a huge mistake. I'm letting go of 2 1/2 years of work and starting from scratch and I can't afford to do that right now. Aargh.
I know she wasn't perfect but she had some really amazing qualities. As a T, I mean. I don't know what to do. It feels humiliating to go back. Maybe I've already damaged the relationship too much, anyway.
I don't know how to figure this out.
Posted by fallsfall on December 21, 2004, at 23:15:53
In reply to I'm very close to going back to old T, posted by crushedout on December 21, 2004, at 21:33:08
Starting with a new therapist is really hard. Particularly when you aren't sure you wanted to leave the old one.
Can I suggest that you talk to your new therapist about this? If it really would be best for you to go back to your old therapist, then you and the new therapist can figure that out. The new one sounds competent - so I don't think that she would be territorial. Please talk this through with her. Tell her that the connection is different - try to understand what that is all about.
I know you are really depressed right now. Please let your new therapist help with that. It *IS* hard to start again, but sometimes (like for me) starting again can give you new perspective on things. You were *so* unhappy for *so* long. Please consider this decision carefully.
Let your new therapist help you with this. That is what she is there for.
(((((Crushed)))))
Posted by crushedout on December 21, 2004, at 23:23:29
In reply to Re: I'm very close to going back to old T » crushedout, posted by fallsfall on December 21, 2004, at 23:15:53
yeah ideally taht would make sense but she really hasn't been helping me with it. we just haven't been talking about it, and when we do, it doesn't go anywhere. i'm serious. i'm not just saying this.also, she's on vacation till jan. 3.
but i'll consider what you say very carefully. i'll try not to act rashly
Posted by gardenergirl on December 21, 2004, at 23:36:09
In reply to Re: I'm very close to going back to old T » fallsfall, posted by crushedout on December 21, 2004, at 23:23:29
Crushed,
I can't tell you what you should do. But I did want to mention that although it feels like starting from scratch, you do bring what you learned with your old T into the new therapy relationship. You don't go all the way back to the beginning. But I understand it's not the same and you haven't developed a solid working relationship with this new T yet.Whatever you decide, I hope it is the best decision for you.
Be well,
gg
Posted by crushedout on December 21, 2004, at 23:40:45
In reply to Re: I'm very close to going back to old T, posted by gardenergirl on December 21, 2004, at 23:36:09
i know but it's starting from scratch as far as the relationship with the t goes, and that's a hard thing to build. a relationship.
Posted by gardenergirl on December 21, 2004, at 23:47:35
In reply to Re: I'm very close to going back to old T » gardenergirl, posted by crushedout on December 21, 2004, at 23:40:45
>
> i know but it's starting from scratch as far as the relationship with the t goes, and that's a hard thing to build. a relationship.You're right, and I was probably reacting with a touch of my own issues cropping up. I guess I wouldn't like to think that someone I worked with would feel like all that was for naught if we terminated and they moved onto to start with someone else. But then, it's not about me and how I would feel about it, it's about the client. Still...
Sorry I was a bit defensive.
gg
Posted by crushedout on December 22, 2004, at 0:05:11
In reply to Re: I'm very close to going back to old T » crushedout, posted by gardenergirl on December 21, 2004, at 23:47:35
Well, I definitely agree that I don't lose everything I learned with her, if that makes you feel any better. But the connection we had to each other, the way she understood me, or at least made me feel understood -- that's gone. Because I don't talk to her anymore. And being cared about on that level. That's gone. And it's especially hard because I don't have anyone else like that in my life right now. Just kids that I take care of and family, which is better than nothing but it's not the same.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on December 22, 2004, at 0:22:32
In reply to Re: I'm very close to going back to old T » gardenergirl, posted by crushedout on December 22, 2004, at 0:05:11
I think sometimes it is best to make a decision and STICK with it good or bad because sitting on the fence is so very hard. And one could go on and on in circles forever.
Posted by crushedout on December 22, 2004, at 0:25:40
In reply to Sometimes.................., posted by Fallen4MyT on December 22, 2004, at 0:22:32
I agree that would be nice but it is something I'm incapable of. I never feel certain. I'm cursed with ambivalence and doubt, and I can't make myself believe if I don't. I wish I could.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on December 22, 2004, at 0:33:06
In reply to Re: Sometimes.................. » Fallen4MyT, posted by crushedout on December 22, 2004, at 0:25:40
I could be wrong won't be the first time but I think many to most of us on here feel that self doubt ...but....even a coin toss is better than going in circles...If you go back you will say why did I do that?..If you don't it's why didn't I? RIGHT?? So toss a coin ONLY once and stick with that T no matter what for 6 months. Otherwise my fear is you will just be standing still while your mind and heart stay in turmoil
>
> I agree that would be nice but it is something I'm incapable of. I never feel certain. I'm cursed with ambivalence and doubt, and I can't make myself believe if I don't. I wish I could.
Posted by crushedout on December 22, 2004, at 0:40:36
In reply to Re: Sometimes.................. » crushedout, posted by Fallen4MyT on December 22, 2004, at 0:33:06
I just can't do that. Then I would just say, "why did I listen to the coin toss?" and torture myself with that. It's not in me to do that. Besides, in six months, I won't have insurance so it will be too late to change my mind. I have to make a decision now and it has to make sense to me, or I will not be happy.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on December 22, 2004, at 0:49:49
In reply to Re: Sometimes.................. » Fallen4MyT, posted by crushedout on December 22, 2004, at 0:40:36
OK to help you sort this out..you have to make a decision but yet you said in other posts before that you cannot make a decision...How are you going to make it then???? I hope you find a happy solution and stop the circles cause I know I hate when I do that myself. I finally had to make myself stop it and just make a choice.
> I just can't do that. Then I would just say, "why did I listen to the coin toss?" and torture myself with that. It's not in me to do that. Besides, in six months, I won't have insurance so it will be too late to change my mind. I have to make a decision now and it has to make sense to me, or I will not be happy.
Posted by crushedout on December 22, 2004, at 0:57:45
In reply to Re: Sometimes.................. » crushedout, posted by Fallen4MyT on December 22, 2004, at 0:49:49
No, what I said was I can't "just" make a decision and then stick with it. I make decisions all the time. But I often second-guess them afterwards, especially when they're hard decisions, like this one was. And I'm not capable of forcing myself to make a decision when I'm not sure about something and then convincing myself that it was the right one. It has to really feel right.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on December 22, 2004, at 1:03:22
In reply to Re: Sometimes.................. » Fallen4MyT, posted by crushedout on December 22, 2004, at 0:57:45
I got what you said and all but then all I can say is maybe ask yourself if this decision will EVER feel right to you. And maybe draw from your past posts on this topic like DR. BOB GOOGLE yourself and read how you felt on this before and why you did what you did when you did it..that may help..thats all I can tell ya..I hate to see you suffer so.
Posted by crushedout on December 22, 2004, at 1:08:24
In reply to Re: Sometimes..................but » crushedout, posted by Fallen4MyT on December 22, 2004, at 1:03:22
It may never feel right -- that's kind of my point. But that doesn't mean that I shouldn't see her. Could mean the opposite. If I don't know, then I don't know. You see?But looking at old posts is not a bad idea. The problem with that is it's not the whole picture. As I started out saying, I only posted when things were bad. I didn't post about the good stuff. And there was a LOT of good stuff.
Posted by Rigby on December 22, 2004, at 2:15:57
In reply to Re: I'm very close to going back to old T » fallsfall, posted by crushedout on December 21, 2004, at 23:23:29
Hi Crushed,
What stands out to me is that you went to this new therapist to not be there permanently but to have a place to go to perhaps process your first therapist. And you now say she hasn't been helping you with that. If your main goal is to get through feelings about your first therapist I would ask yourself, as a "consumer" why you aren't making that a priority?
It strikes me as perhaps a theme because your feelings of transference with your first therapist were unbearable. But you never seemed to cover them in therapy--it just didn't come up, your therapist didn't handle it or claimed you dissociated--but in the end, what was desperately important to you wasn't being worked on. Why not?
I guess I feel that old therapist or new, life is precious, time is ticking and these are really big "building" years for you (relationship, family, career.) I would think you'd want to maximize your time in whoever's office you choose to help you overcome some obstacles that have stood in the way of you achieving dreams. I just don't want to see you spend these important years focused on the *process* of therapy and on the therapist herself vs. the enormous benefits that could come of what a good analyst could offer you.
Hope this makes some sense--it's late and I'm rambling a bit.
Rigby
> yeah ideally taht would make sense but she really hasn't been helping me with it. we just haven't been talking about it, and when we do, it doesn't go anywhere. i'm serious. i'm not just saying this.
>
> also, she's on vacation till jan. 3.
>
> but i'll consider what you say very carefully. i'll try not to act rashly
Posted by Dinah on December 22, 2004, at 7:06:04
In reply to Re: I'm very close to going back to old T » gardenergirl, posted by crushedout on December 22, 2004, at 0:05:11
First of all, I think Rigby is very wise. That *should* be the main focus of your therapy. To learn to get what you want in the real world.
And of course, I remember you weren't very happy struggling with your feelings with your therapist for so long.
But gut wise, I have to say that I understand and would probably do the same thing. Fortunately right now therapy is a useful supportive adjunct to my life, not the center of it. It helps me go out and deal with the other stuff as best I can. But if my therapeutic relationship were ever in jeopardy, I'd do whatever it took at whatever cost to myself and possibly at whatever cost to my life to keep it intact. I would do things that were very harmful to myself to keep it intact. Even if it were already essentially gone in every way that matters, I'd still do everything in my power to cling to the vestiges.
I'm not saying it's right. It's not. I'm not saying I'm not overly attached to my therapist. I am. There are a heck of a lot of good and understandable reasons why I'm so attached that have to do with my root difficulties. I probably should try to work on those, and lessen the attachment.
But I won't.
I'm not sure what I'm trying to say here. I'm not sure if your situation is as sick and twisted as mine. :) (I smile because on the surface, mine isn't. It appears to be very helpful and stabilizing to me. It's only if termination were in sight that it would become a monster destructive force in my personal landscape.) But I'm saying I *do* understand if you feel you need to go back, for whatever reason - justifiable intellectually or not.
Posted by crushedout on December 22, 2004, at 11:44:49
In reply to Re: I'm very close to going back to old T » crushedout, posted by Dinah on December 22, 2004, at 7:06:04
Thank you, Dinah. That means a lot to me, to have that side understood. You've always been good at doing that. And it needs to be validated. Even if through having that side understood, I end up deciding not to go back. I feel like it's easier to make the decision *not* to go back if I feel like it's a valid option, if that makes any sense.Wow, I just reread that paragraph and it was extremely convoluted.
Posted by pinkeye on December 22, 2004, at 15:50:40
In reply to I'm very close to going back to old T, posted by crushedout on December 21, 2004, at 21:33:08
why don't you let things settle down for about 3 months and just continue with the way things are? I can see how tempting it must be to go back. I do agree that your old T was probably good for you in many ways, but seeing the way you suffered - was hard for all of us to see. We don't want you to keep doing that and would like if you can give yourself a chance to come out of it.
Posted by crushedout on December 22, 2004, at 20:29:38
In reply to A Few Thoughts » crushedout, posted by Rigby on December 22, 2004, at 2:15:57
Hi Rigby,
I *think* I get what you're saying. But I'm not sure you understand my situation completely. I *originally* went to this therapist to figure out whether to leave the old T. Then I decided to have her as a therapist, at least for a trial period. And I got really depressed, and not about the old T but just generally, so that had to be our priority. It's very hard to make good use of an hour a week. I'm doing the best that I can.
It sounds like you're saying that I'm not doing therapy right, and that I'm wasting my life or something. I've been severely depressed and doing my best to deal with that, and dealing with a ton of loss in my life.
I *am* frustrated that the transference is not being dealt with and maybe it is partially my fault, but I need practical advice about how to address that. I don't need to get even more depressed about how I'm going to die soon and my life is passing me by while I screw this up.
Posted by littleone on December 22, 2004, at 21:05:04
In reply to Re: A Few Thoughts » Rigby, posted by crushedout on December 22, 2004, at 20:29:38
Hi crushed,
I could be thinking of someone else here, but have you had a couple of T's over the last few years who you've really fallen for? If you have, then there seems to be some sort of pattern there and it is probably the pattern that needs to be understood and addressed rather than the transference feelings towards the individual T.
I understand why you would want to go back to your previous T. When you have that special bond with someone, it can feel like you've lost part of yourself when they/you leave.
However, it sounds like you're still a little confused within yourself (maybe a bit unconsciously) as to why exactly you should be going back. In one message you said something about wanting that special closeness and bond reinstated, but in another message, you say you want to resolve the transference.
I know that these two things don't have to be exclusive to each other, but in this case, I can't see how your old T can meet both these needs similtaneously.
You mentioned that your current T was a temporary in between T and it really doesn't sound like you've bonded strongly (although I can't recall how long you've been with him/her).
I was going to suggest that you try going to a new T. But maybe try to shake things up a bit. If say your old T was a woman, try seeing a man. Or try seeing someone with a different personality to your old T.
I guess the only other thing I wanted to remind you of was that you did have a strong bond with your old T, but if I recall correctly, she seemed over invested in the relationship. Which invariably means that she had certain needs being met in the relationship. And when she's meeting her needs (either consciously or unconsciously), she's not doing the best thing in your interests.
But like I said earlier, I could be way off base and have you confused with someone else.
Take care.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on December 22, 2004, at 22:08:42
In reply to Re: A Few Thoughts - turned out kinda long » crushedout, posted by littleone on December 22, 2004, at 21:05:04
Maybe thinking about what do you want to happen? And maybe reflection on what the reply you would most want to see on this thread to be...what would it say? I get the feeling and maybe I am wrong that youre not happy with the replies you have gotten so far...What would be the reply you want to see? That may be the answer for you
Posted by crushedout on December 22, 2004, at 22:19:43
In reply to A strange thought perhaps but, posted by Fallen4MyT on December 22, 2004, at 22:08:42
That's not completely true. For example, I liked Dinah's reply, as I made pretty clear in my response to it. She validated my feelings without telling me what to do.I'm not looking for answers. There are no easy answers to this problem. I'm just trying to get helpful feedback and support. That can come in many forms. It's hard to say exactly what I'm looking for because it's not that specific.
I'm not trying to be difficult. I'm just looking for help and some kinds of help are not helpful.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on December 22, 2004, at 22:45:03
In reply to Re: A strange thought perhaps but » Fallen4MyT, posted by crushedout on December 22, 2004, at 22:19:43
But Crushed all we can do is try and you do not like what we think is supportive. You say you like 1 persons support. I think you know my situation with my T so I feel I am VERY neutral in this more so than really anyone who has posted to you. So yes support comes in many forms and helpful is WHAT??? that was the point of my last post was for you to maybe ask yourself why most of the helpful posts I have read in here...to you seem to be.. to you... NOT supportive or helpful?? I am not being difficult either I just know how you feel to some extent being one to cross lines and all myself and the fence sitting is not good for you I can read and hear the stress in all your replies. So I can only support you how I would want to be supported and I would ask myself WHAT IS IT I AM NOT GETTING THAT I WANT TO HEAR IN HERE...AND maybe post it to yourself or for all of us to see what you need or want? I really FEEL for your PAIN and frustration I REALLY DO...but I feel that youre biting a lot of hands that are typing and trying to help. I CARE . I do not care what you do I CARE that you do DO something to stop this agony for yourself. I am not saying its easy man of anyone in here I would know that best. I hope you try what I said it just MIGHT help you find what you need and want but maybe arent sure yourself on.
> That's not completely true. For example, I liked Dinah's reply, as I made pretty clear in my response to it. She validated my feelings without telling me what to do.
>
> I'm not looking for answers. There are no easy answers to this problem. I'm just trying to get helpful feedback and support. That can come in many forms. It's hard to say exactly what I'm looking for because it's not that specific.
>
> I'm not trying to be difficult. I'm just looking for help and some kinds of help are not helpful.
Posted by crushedout on December 22, 2004, at 22:54:28
In reply to Re: A strange thought perhaps but » crushedout, posted by Fallen4MyT on December 22, 2004, at 22:45:03
who is "we," fallen? i don't like being told to flip a coin. i disagreed with some of what you said. i'm not going to pretend to agree with things i don't agree with, ok? please just let it drop. i know you mean well, but this is not helpful to me.
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