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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by BigFish on September 19, 2004, at 22:28:22
Hi,
I was hoping someone could help me make sense of a painful situation I'm in with my t. There is a particular topic that I've brought up with my t a few times in the last several months. Each time I start talking about it, about 2 minutes later I look over at him and he's clearly about to go to sleep - he's struggling to keep his eyes open or his eyes are in fact closed. He doesn't do this at any other time. I'm quite convinced it is a reaction of his to this specific topic. My feelings are hurt, and I don't really know what to do. What does this mean? Why would he have a reaction like this? Any thoughts, interpretations, suggestions would be most appreciated.
Thank you very much.
BigFish
Posted by Pfinstegg on September 19, 2004, at 23:15:24
In reply to t's countertransference hurts, posted by BigFish on September 19, 2004, at 22:28:22
It's certainly his own reaction to that topic. Still, anyone would be hurt if their T went to sleep! Do you feel like saying what the topic is?
Posted by BigFish on September 19, 2004, at 23:43:23
In reply to Re: t's countertransference hurts » BigFish, posted by Pfinstegg on September 19, 2004, at 23:15:24
Hi Pfinstegg,
Thanks for responding. The topic is love - I've brought it up in the context of me loving someone or the hope that someone loves me.
BigFish
> It's certainly his own reaction to that topic. Still, anyone would be hurt if their T went to sleep! Do you feel like saying what the topic is?
Posted by Pfinstegg on September 20, 2004, at 0:00:49
In reply to Re: t's countertransference hurts » Pfinstegg, posted by BigFish on September 19, 2004, at 23:43:23
That's a very important topic, and one that you are entitled to bring up freely and as often as you would like to. Do you feel you can tell him that you'd like to have that freedom, but that his getting so sleepy is making you hurt and inhibited about doing it? I know this is awfully hard to do, but you wouldn't be alone- I think all of us have come up against blind or weak spots in our Ts, and it can really help to mention them. Usually, if they can't correct it on their own, they have people to turn to for supervision. My T had a blind spot which I finally dared to mention to him. When he finally changed it, some months later, he said, "I guess you have been waiting patiently for me to do that!" The truth is, i thought he was never going to, but it helped a lot when he finally did. He's an older T, so I'm not sure about supervision (HE supervises all these other Ts), but he has lunch twice a week with other Ts, and I have a feeling they help each other out, informally.
Posted by Pfinstegg on September 20, 2004, at 0:54:57
In reply to Re: t's countertransference hurts » BigFish, posted by Pfinstegg on September 20, 2004, at 0:00:49
Well, I guess it's only fair to tell you what my T was doing, since you were honest enough to! I have csa and dissociated childhood parts. When I first began therapy, i really didn't know about those other parts, or exactly believe they were *real*. Whenever I would tell him something really personal and private-hard to tell- he would always ask, immediately, "what does the girl think about that?". It used to drive me crazy, because i didn't feel he was being empathic about what I was actually saying- and i didn't know what the girl thought, anyway. I complained, and after a while he began to validate me more and wait for the girl part to speak. This is working much better. For one thing, I now know how real that part is, and how much her feelings differ from mine. I also very much appreciate his patience and willingness to change his technique so as to help the adult me feel better understood. I hope you can tell your T how you feel about his sleepiness- he really should find a way to change that!
Posted by BigFish on September 20, 2004, at 1:11:50
In reply to Re: t's countertransference hurts, posted by Pfinstegg on September 20, 2004, at 0:54:57
Thanks Pfinstegg. Even though it's made me really nervous, I've addressed this in that I pointed out to him that he's almost falling asleep when I bring up this topic. His response has been to smile and ask "So why do you suppose I have that reaction when you talk about love?" Arrrgh! I want to know why he has that reaction. I tend to think negatively - like "He has that reaction because he doesn't like me." Frankly, I need some sort of reassurance.
Posted by BigFish on September 20, 2004, at 1:20:50
In reply to Re: t's countertransference hurts, posted by Pfinstegg on September 20, 2004, at 0:54:57
And thank you for sharing the specifics of your situation. Sounds like you and your T have a solid relationship! That's really encouraging.
Posted by Pfinstegg on September 20, 2004, at 1:22:21
In reply to Re: t's countertransference hurts » Pfinstegg, posted by BigFish on September 20, 2004, at 1:11:50
Oh, gosh. I guess you have to answer, and say that you feel it's because he doesn't like you, since that's what you're feeling. It sounds like he's being evasive, though- i still think it has more to do with him in some way, and may not be related to you at all. Other than this one thing, has he been a good T for you? Do you, or are you in the process of, feeling securely attached and safe with him? Is he helping?
Posted by tinydancer on September 20, 2004, at 2:06:20
In reply to Re: t's countertransference hurts, posted by Pfinstegg on September 20, 2004, at 0:54:57
> Well, I guess it's only fair to tell you what my T was doing, since you were honest enough to! I have csa and dissociated childhood parts.
Sorry, just had to stick my nose in here...What is csa? I tried googling it but couldn't find anything. How does it work for you with the dissassociated parts? I don't mean to be nosy but I have MPD myself and sometimes it is helpful to talk to others how they deal with things also...
Posted by Pfinstegg on September 20, 2004, at 2:35:36
In reply to Re: t's countertransference hurts » Pfinstegg, posted by tinydancer on September 20, 2004, at 2:06:20
Whenever it's used here, I'm assuming it means childhood sexual abuse. That's what I mean by it. The dissociated child part of me is carrying most of the pain, shame, guilt and terror of it, as well as detailed memories that *I* (the adult) am only slowly able to let into my conscious mind. Therapy has been really helpful with that.
I'm really glad you posted here. I've read your posts before, of course, but, somehow, I didn't know that you had a dissociative disorder, too. Do you want to say any more about it? I've found it tremendously helpful and supportive to talk to others here who have the same thing that I do. When I'm feeling really down, especially, there's bound to be another person dealing with the same thing who is feeling more hopeful and can offer a fresh or more helpful perspective than i can give myself. Also, it's such a lonely thing to have- you just can't really tell friends about it, so PB is a wonderful community where we can be honest. It's such a relief for me- in my outside life, I'm so high-functioning, but it's a huge effort, and doesn't always feel very real. I hope you'll post more about your situation, if you'd like to.
Posted by Pfinstegg on September 20, 2004, at 2:56:55
In reply to csa » tinydancer, posted by Pfinstegg on September 20, 2004, at 2:35:36
I don't know if you have noticed, but there are several threads on various aspects of dissociation just above here- the one started by Maisie, for example, and an earlier one, further above but not yet archived, started by Aphrodite. Daisy also has a lot of wonderful posts dealing with it. Abuse, either physical or sexual, or both, and severe neglect by one or both parents seem to run through all these threads as causative factors. Csa isn't the cause for everyone.
Posted by DaisyM on September 20, 2004, at 11:40:41
In reply to Re: dissociative disorders- tinydancer, posted by Pfinstegg on September 20, 2004, at 2:56:55
Big Fish, I hope when your therapist asked why you thought he was getting sleepy you answered but then followed up with "well, what DO YOU think?" I don't let my therapist get away with answering a question with a question much. I use to. I was afraid I was violating some therapy protocol asking him the question again. I'm willing to try to search for answers but I also want his insight into his own reactions. I usually get answers when I persist.
I noticed that my son's therapist use to get sleepy when we talked directly about my husband dying. He is a young therapist and it was my guess that dealing with a child's grief was pretty overwhelming. I think even my son sensed this because he would move away from the topic himself if the yawns started.
The other thing you could do is call it when you see it. "You seem to be getting sleepy, and we are talking about love again. Can you tell me why this seems like such a hard topic for you? Or, if that is too private, how can we get past the sleepiness because this is important to me and I need to feel that you are here with me."
It's worth a shot. This is too big a topic to not explore.
Good luck!
Posted by Dinah on September 20, 2004, at 11:43:26
In reply to Sleepy Therapists, posted by DaisyM on September 20, 2004, at 11:40:41
I love it Daisy! You're my kind of therapy client. :) You aren't afraid to bring things up, but by doing it in such a nonconfrontational way, it's not likely to jeopardize the therapeutic alliance but rather strengthen it.
That's exactly the sort of conversations that have brought me to a really good place in my therapy.
Posted by BigFish on September 20, 2004, at 11:46:10
In reply to Re: t's countertransference hurts » BigFish, posted by Pfinstegg on September 20, 2004, at 1:22:21
You ask good questions. I'm in a quandry and I'm not sure what to think and I'm pretty depressed right now. I don't trust my decision-making abilities :(
> Oh, gosh. I guess you have to answer, and say that you feel it's because he doesn't like you, since that's what you're feeling. It sounds like he's being evasive, though- i still think it has more to do with him in some way, and may not be related to you at all. Other than this one thing, has he been a good T for you? Do you, or are you in the process of, feeling securely attached and safe with him? Is he helping?
Posted by BigFish on September 20, 2004, at 12:14:14
In reply to Sleepy Therapists, posted by DaisyM on September 20, 2004, at 11:40:41
Hi DaisyM - thank you for responding...
>>> Big Fish, I hope when your therapist asked why you thought he was getting sleepy you answered but then followed up with "well, what DO YOU think?" I don't let my therapist get away with answering a question with a question much. I use to. I was afraid I was violating some therapy protocol asking him the question again. I'm willing to try to search for answers but I also want his insight into his own reactions. I usually get answers when I persist.
You are right. I need to be more assertive when I bring things like this up. I have that very reaction that you describe: I assume that I'm violating some protocol. Also I assume that if I wait too long to bring it up again I violate a "statute of limitiations."
>>> I noticed that my son's therapist use to get sleepy when we talked directly about my husband dying. He is a young therapist and it was my guess that dealing with a child's grief was pretty overwhelming. I think even my son sensed this because he would move away from the topic himself if the yawns started.
I've been seeing him for three years. In that time I've observed that he has a steady pool of patients. I recognize almost all of them as being there at least as long as me. Since it's such a big topic, I wonder if he does this with them. I am interested in your using the word "overwhelming." Maybe something is overwhelming for him.
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts!
> Good luck!
Posted by BigFish on September 20, 2004, at 12:19:20
In reply to Re: t's countertransference hurts » BigFish, posted by Pfinstegg on September 20, 2004, at 1:22:21
Posted by Pfinstegg on September 20, 2004, at 12:34:47
In reply to thanks again for your help, Pfinstegg (nm) » Pfinstegg, posted by BigFish on September 20, 2004, at 12:19:20
I thought Daisy had such good advice. It really is evasive for him to answer your question with another one. Getting suddenly sleepy is supposed to be a reaction to something internal (inside HIM!) which one can't deal with. I think we all, or at least, I, definitely, go up and down in our degrees of hope about our therapy and our security of attachment to our Ts. For me, the adult me is attached and hopeful, but the dissociated *girl*inside me feels exactly the opposite. But even without factoring in any dissociated parts, i'm sure we all go up and down on these things like barometers. i do hope you have a good, solid "up" soon!
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